Bad bad bad experience with Knifekits.com

[Neil Ostroff]

Did you pay with a credit card or PayPal? If so, open a dispute if you haven't gotten what you paid for. There's nothing to negotiate.
.

If it has been made very clear, 2 hours before your post, that Knife kits has already gone to the extent of replacing the order for the OP to make him whole, then what is the point of you prodding him to "open a dispute with PayPal or the credit card company" for a situation that has been already resolved?

 

[risen]

If the OP bought items from Amazon and selected the cheapest shipping with no insurance or tracking and the package got lost, Amazon would have no responsibility whatsoever to replace the items.

This is where credit card and/or other protections may apply. When purchasing with credit cards, lost/stolen items may be automatically covered.

And, again, with PayPal, a dispute tends to favor the buyer for this sort of thing.

As for Amazon, I'm a Prime Member, and have never had an issue. But, if this sort of problem was to ever come up (for me), I'm certain it would be resolved to my satisfaction, even if it took opening a dispute with my credit card company.

(Btw, all my knife purchases/transactions from Amazon have been flawless, and the knives have been just as great as any I've purchased from other knifes stores.)

 

[risen]

If it has been made very clear, 2 hours before your post, that Knife kits has already gone to the extent of replacing the order for the OP to make him whole, then what is the point of you prodding him to "open a dispute with PayPal or the credit card company" for a situation that has been already resolved?

Relax.

If you were as sharp as you pretend to be, you'd have read my following post and seen that I had already acknowledged the seller's actions.

Btw, Sherlock, my suggestion still stands, since it might save someone else grief regarding future purchases, regardless of the seller/s, including you.

 

[Neil Ostroff]

Relax.

If you were as sharp as you pretend to be, you'd have read my following post and seen that I had already acknowledged the seller's actions.

Btw, Sherlock, my suggestion still stands, since it might save someone else grief regarding future purchases, regardless of the seller/s, including you.

Wow - I guess I have met my match- I suppose I am not sharp at all and I am clearly no Sherlock.

By the way, I am very relaxed.

One more thing- you know my name- what is your real name?

 

[darthsoaker]

Wow, this got hostile fast...

 

[risen]

Wow - I guess I have met my match- I suppose I am not sharp at all and I am clearly no Sherlock.

By the way, I am very relaxed.

One more thing- you know my name- what is your real name?

Wow - I guess I shouldn't be surprised. A Dealer who doesn't seem to appreciate someone sharing consumer options, so that customers can be better informed when transactions don't go right.

Oh, about my name, tell you what, *if* I was to ever buy something from you (yeah, that'll happen, now), I'll be sure to provide it to you, along with my address and credit card/PayPal info.

One last thing, terrific attitude you've got there, for a Dealer. Way to win over new customers, accusing me of prodding when all I was doing was sharing consumer solutions.

Yep, I agree with you, "not sharp at all" and "clearly no Sherlock".

 

[Esav Benyamin]

risen, chill out. This started because you read the OP and blasted off. We see this all the time, people not reading the entire thread before responding to the OP. Let's not get into a flame war over it, guys.

 

[airyq]

I have had nothing but good experiences with Knifekits. One time, a sharpening stone I ordered arrived cracked and they sent me the wrong book. A quick email with photos and after about 2 days, got an email to confirming that replacements had been sent. All the way to South East Asia, at their expense.

My experience with Jonathan is that he is not the most friendly fellow around. For my problem above, he read my email complaining about it, did not bother to reply but had obviously told his people to take care of it because next thing I knew, I received the email informing that replacements had been shipped.

Jonathan did not bother to reply to my thank you email either, but he and Knifekits are all right in my books. Would not hesitate to order from them again.

 

[risen]

risen, chill out. This started because you read the OP and blasted off. We see this all the time, people not reading the entire thread before responding to the OP. Let's not get into a flame war over it, guys.

With all due respect, Esav, I didn't blast off about anything.

Someone posted a problem regarding a transaction. As a fellow consumer, I presented options if that buyer wasn't satisfied. Again, I promptly followed up with another post when I saw that the seller in question had taken responsible/professional steps.

If anyone "blasted off" here, it was Neil, when he stated that I was "prodding". I don't believe that was appropriate.

There's nothing wrong with sharing information, so that consumers can be better informed. Plain & simple.

 

[Backstopper]

That's a lot of credibility points for a guy with one (1) BF post!!

BTW – Here’s KnifeKits.com Jonathan Musick on video, for a vibe of the unyielding manager…
http://www.knifekits.com/video_clips/webvid_cabstud/kk_web_cabstuds.wmv

Mr. Maverick888 failed to tell the full details of his experience with KnifeKits.com…

He failed to mention that “he” ordered online and chose his own rate and method for shipping option using a real-time rate calculator directly connected to USPS and FedEx for the prices and delivery estimate. He also failed to state that his package was “automatically upgraded to Priority on our dime” at the point of labeling. It was also packed in (2) packages, and not (1) stuffed, flimsy envelope, as was inferred.

He ordered the cheapest method and we upgraded it to Priority for no extra charge. When it arrived in California, it had been tampered-with or damaged by the carrier. Both his PM and ours verified it.

The inner package was removed, lost or stolen (the inner manila bubble envelope gone) and his local Postmaster supposedly told him that we weren’t supposed to ship items this way. Of course, it wasn't deduced yet that his Postmaster really is speculating deeply when he says that something was shipped incorrectly... especially when he never saw the original package in the first place!

Truth is, we’ve been using the same packaging method as proven method for over 10 years to all points in the USA and abroad… and it works great!!

A simple search of the forums here will reveal over 500 threads on BF touting our company, our products, our service and our support of the knife industry, over 10 years in the forging!

Having said that…
I’ve got one senior member of BF telling the world to avoid KnifeKits.com at the drop of a hat and several others supporting the 1st post accusations of a brand new, unproven member. Were it not for our many friends and allies, this post would have blinded us. Thank you folks!

As I’m sure that many will read this response, many whom I know and respect, I would like for the facts on this case to be clear.

KnifeKits.com is not a fly-by-night company. We are a brand with over 1500 products. Our address is http://www.knifekits.com We even have our own dedicated support forum where the public is invited to post questions directly to our employees about anything from orders placed, lost or for DIY support, anything. (out of respect for my friend Kevin, I won’t post the link or name here) We all know where it is. Suffice to say that we’ve never ignored a customer issue! We are innovators in providing online customer support.

The items purchased by Maverick888 wouldn’t cover the palm of my hand and in no-way caused a sorter problem, unless some guy was asleep at the wheel. He’s the one that picked the cheapest USPS delivery method when he placed his order. We upgraded him for free to Priority, but he didn’t mention that to you, again!

Also, this incident is hardly described by “stuffing” something into a Priority 12x12 envelope and then overcharging someone to deliver it. We use a “rate calculator” on our web site that works directly with the provider’s USPS and FedEx systems in real-time, not a fee-table for dictating shipping charges. It talks with the postal system and FedEx in real-time and returns their rates and estimates for exact calculations. The customer then chooses the method they want to pay for.

Also… in defense of a very good man:
Jonathan Musick did not say that we ship 1000’s per day and that we’ve never heard of a lost package. What he did say was that we’ve shipped 1000’s of packages like his and can verify from experience that a lost package using our method is a rare event!

I’m not stating fact, but the post office and FedEx do get the vast, vast majority of all packages to their intended locations without any incident. That’s my experience.

Since I’ve already sent this customer a replacement package and will follow up with him directly, let me apologize to anyone reading this for any errors that we cause and for any missteps in how we handle things when packages go out. All we ask is that you pick the quality of delivery based on a certain assumption of risk/reward.

Everyone knows that Parcel Post is less quality and slower, more handled than Priority. I’m eating this one because my employees, on my directive, upgrade all of our customers shipping automatically, based on the difference between the published rate and the rate that we can select before labeling that may be discounted for specialized packaging options. Our cart system doesn’t have a way to determine what has to be put in a box or can go in special containers. We can do that on the fly and improve the method for the same price, sometimes. Since I upgraded to a method that he didn’t request, I’m really responsible for how and when it gets there. We've already taken care of it.

For any of you that know me, you know I’m always looking for the right, and most even-handed solution to every problem. All of the guys that work here are professionals, available by phone at any time. When they get told to pound sand, it's worth my time to defend.

I’m not pointing my finger at any one. I only talk from experience. I recommend that all people, who read these types of threads out on forums where you see attacks like this going on (and BF is one of the cleanest forums around), do a little personal investigation before they form an opinion about people or events based on posts. This will help you get at the real truth more than not.

A simple search of KnifeKits.com on these forums returned over 500 posts worth of historic content about our company. I’ll let that do our reputation defending!

Alex Whetsell
aw (at) atlantavirtual.com

Bravo.
Any company being this responsive and doing all they can to give their customers a quality experience gets a :thumbup::thumbup: from me.

 

[Seals]

Knifekits.com = good to go.:thumbup: Very good fast service.

 

[Guyon]

I may be wrong but this was not a BFC transaction- the dispute was between a buyer and company. If the OP bought items from Amazon and selected the cheapest shipping with no insurance or tracking and the package got lost, Amazon would have no responsibility whatsoever to replace the items.

However, in this case, apparently Knife kits did step up and cover the loss to the OP. Right?

I understand the difference. It still doesn't make it right in this case.
$10 shipping for less than a palmful of items ought to get you some peace of mind.
And I used the BFC analogy because it illustrates a common convention here predicated on how a good transaction (not an Amazon transaction) ought to go down.
Clearly, Knifekits recognizes the principle since they are replacing the goods. Good on them.
I applaud their decision. Their course of action follows the same advice people have given/gotten here at BFC for as long as I remember.

 

[Neil Ostroff]

I understand the difference. It still doesn't make it right in this case.
$10 shipping for less than a palmful of items ought to get you some peace of mind.
And I used the BFC analogy because it illustrates a common convention here predicated on how a good transaction (not an Amazon transaction) ought to go down.
Clearly, Knifekits recognizes the principle since they are replacing the goods. Good on them.
I applaud their decision. Their course of action follows the same advice people have given/gotten here at BFC for as long as I remember.

Point taken- well said.

Regards. Neil / TNK

 

[SharpByCoop]

I can understand why the OP was peeved, but clearly joining to post this was a simple act of spite and less about real credibility.

Props to Alex Whetsell and the entire Knife Kits staff for taking the time to clarify, and making good on a problem.

Anyone doing lots of business and shipping is going to get caught in a statistic. It's inevitable.

I'm one of the KK clients who has always has great success with the products AND the service. I'm predicting a continued rise for them.

I hope the OP gets his stuff and ultimately has a less bitter taste about this transaction. It's an anomaly.

Coop

 

[risen]

I can understand why the OP was peeved, but clearly joining to post this was a simple act of spite and less about real credibility.

Maybe, maybe not.

In this case, I won't question timing. However, purely hypothetically, how do we know that the BF post isn't what got the OP his resolution. Was the order re-sent before the OP posted? If so, was the OP notified before he posted? Not trying to stir up anything. Just asking.

Dealers/Sellers have no problems using these forums to promote their products/services, and they seem to benefit ($$$) from positive feedback/reviews. However, these forums are a double-edged blade (pun intended), and when negative experiences are shared, I believe those should be equally acknowledged.

I have not dealt with Knifekits.com, yet, and I won't let this thread keep me from doing business with them if the need arises. As far as I'm concerned, they made right by the customer and the deal, in the end. Although, "All we ask is that you pick the quality of delivery based on a certain assumption of risk/reward.", is something I would never agree with/to.

*If* the OP initiated his post knowing that Knifekits.com was going to re-send the order, then shame on him for not providing all the facts. If he felt slighted due to poor customer service, then he should've just kept it to that.

As a consumer, I feel customers should always be aware of all options available to them should a purchase go wrong. I would never tolerate any merchant handing me a "take it or leave" attitude, or "it's your loss" sort of response (not saying that was the case here). I know I've got options via my credit card companies, and they've proven very helpful/useful in the past.

*If* I couldn't get satisfaction from either the merchant or my credit card company, I'd have absolutely no problem filing complaints and sharing my experience online (negative feedback, posts in related forums, etc.).

Spite? Not to me. Consumer justice? Some. In the end, I follow the path of raising consumer awareness. If I can keep others from experiencing the same sort of bad deal I went through, cool. And, if there's a little karmic backlash on the Seller in the process, so be it.

Btw, when my purchase experiences are fantastic, I have been know to sing it from the rooftops.

 

[VirtualEdge]

"And, again, with PayPal, a dispute tends to favor the buyer for this sort of thing."

Actually, that's not entirely true. It depends on how much business that the merchant in question does through PayPal. Most people don't have a PayPal AM either.

The mystery $10 dollar rate for $16 dollars worth of stuff is elementary. The rate was $9 in truth, not $10, and the method presupposes that the shipment goes in a standard 12x12 box. From the cart’s standpoint, the items could be $16 worth of foam, which will fill that box to the brim. We have to choose one size for our default estimator value. This automatically forces our rate calculator for parcel post to a non-discounted container. California being the most expensive, slowest delivery lower 48 destination, farthest from the East Coast, it gets the top rates in a lot of towns. I won’t disclose the customer’s location. That’s his private information.

Regarding the “risk/reward” aspect of shipping…

Hey man… they call it ground shipping for a reason. By the time it gets there, it’s been on the ground a lot. I guess that I have an unfair advantage on you. I’ve actually seen enough shipments to know what really works and what doesn’t. Show me someone in here who ships more than me for less money and I’ll listen to them. Short of schooling you and not the other way around, I’m out of here on this note…

I sent the customer’s package overnight FedEx. I'm a professional shipper and see what I choose? It doesn’t matter if they have to climb up a flagpole to deliver it, it will be there, unscratched, with a 10-gun salute tomorrow. I didn’t send it for any of your reasons. I sent it because we assumed the full risk when we upgraded his shipping method to Priority. If it were only parcel post, like he ordered, this wouldn’t be an issue to discuss until a week after next. I can see the smile on every real merchants face right now. Let he who hath ears, hear!

Alex Whetsell
aw (at) atlantavirtual.com

 

[BROUS BLADES]

have to give credit where credit is due. I've ordered a lot of stuff from knifekits.com and i have been impressed with their service.

+++++1

 

[risen]

Actually, that's not entirely true. It depends on how much business that the merchant in question does through PayPal....

In part, but it's not the sole determining factor. You are correct though, it's not 100% (favoring customers). That said, I've never had an problem opening PayPal disputes against some rather large companies. Btw, I said "tends" to favor, not "always" favor.

...The mystery $10 dollar rate for $16 dollars worth of stuff is elementary. The rate was $9 in truth, not $10, and the method presupposes that the shipment goes in a standard 12x12 box. ...

I've seen this before and know it can be a pain, at least for me. Personally, I think $9 is still too much.

...Hey man… they call it ground shipping for a reason. By the time it gets there, it’s been on the ground a lot. ...

That's true, but there's no reason the “risk” part should fall on the customer, imo.

...Short of schooling you and not the other way around, I’m out of here on this note…

Seems a different side is beginning to show. Interesting. I believe everyone should always be open to a little schooling.

...I can see the smile on every real merchants face right now. Let he who hath ears, hear!

And, I can see eyes rolling on every customer's face who've been told one thing, but experience something completely different. I'm now hearing all too well, and am beginning to see a clearer picture here.

I know you may not appreciate being "schooled". Still, maybe you should've quit while you were ahead. Can't speak for others, but now I'm left wondering a little.

Thank you for taking the time to post. Very enlightening.

Edit: One last thing, I noticed the timing wasn't addressed, of when the order was re-sent (before or after the OP posted here), and whether or not the OP was notified (also, before or after OP posted here). Just curious.

 

[Haze]

I have never had any trouble with knifekits personally and have generally found them to be fast and
fair with shipping. My cousin did have an issue that remained unresolved with them though.

 

[Guyon]

Show me someone in here who ships more than me for less money and I’ll listen to them.

This is not a BFC vendor, but I've always wondered how MidwayUSA can ship items at the prices it does. Lots of options. Very little tacked on in terms of extra handling. And the shipping doesn't appear to be built into the item prices, which are almost always competitive. And Midway is doing well. I just got the Midway catalogue the other day. It's getting as big as the Brownell's catalog.

I used to moan, along with others, about the shipping at countycomm.com. A tiny $3 item would get you $9 or $10 in shipping, guaranteed, so people would always post about getting up a sizable enough order to justify the shipping. Seems like countycom.com has curbed those shipping prices back recently, which I was glad to see as a consumer.

I'm not here to complain about shipping prices. That's part of the offset of online convenience and not paying sales tax (most times). But I do note when companies seem to do it better, and I will come back to those companies as a result.