Bad Bad deal with Deja_vu7 in the Automatic Exchange

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PineappleGrenade

PineappleGrenade

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Hey Guys!

After almost 10 years on this site I have to post my first post in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

SORRY for the long winded explanation, I just want to be very upfront with everything so there are no questions. And before you read on, Yes this is over a matter of $14.

This afternoon I posted a few Microtechs for sale. And I had Deja_vu7 emailed me and claimed a Delta Dirac. As per the rules I put in the $300 FF and the $312 GS price. And in my for sale thread I always include the term "USA only", For good reason.

Well he paid and I noticed something was off. I should have netted $300 but it only came out to $297. First flag. Second I googled the shipping address. It was international shipping forward company. Some might be wondering what the issues is? He paid, has a USA shipping address, Whats the issue? Well, a couple things. First and foremost I stated USA only in the thread. I am already losing $3 because the Paypal international fee is higher then USA and googling the address is comes up with nothing but scams (see below).

I have shipped to the forward company before and had okay luck, but at this very moment I have a Single Finger Knuck that has been siting in Delaware for close to 2 months that's undeliverable to another of these international forward shipping companies. So you can see my frustration.

At the end of the day we all like our knives right? But things like this are what takes the fun out it.

So I replied to his email asking about being overseas and about the shipping address. He replied saying to just shoot him a refund. Okay great, done. Here is where the whole problem starts.

For those that still care enough to follow along. Knife was priced at $312 GS. Which means I should have received $300.62. But I only receive $297.81. Because I only received $297.81 Thats what I sent back to him. Paypal does not give refunds on the fee amount. I only had an available balance in my account of $297.81. Paypal does not give you the option to cancel the transaction only refund. So, If I had refund him the amount of $312 I would have eaten $14.19. All because my terms of sale were ignored. This is where it goes south. The buyer just didn't understand why he was only getting a partial refund from me for $297.81 and demanded another $14.19. So much so that I now have a pending Paypal dispute open against me. My favorite part is the last message the buyer sent finally understanding what is going on and not blaming me for it, but opening a claim against me.

I have been doing this long enough to know the difference in right or wrong. Recently I had a JB Stout Oblivion 003 stolen from me in the Chicago USPS distribution center. I shipped express but didn't insure the packaged. The package never made it. So therefore I didn't deliver (no pun intended) on my end of the deal. I refunded the buyer every last dime. The responsibility fell on me and I took care of it. You know, The whole good karma thing. What comes around goes around. I am not telling you this for pity but telling you this because I felt it was the right thing to do. This situation, however I do not feel like I should be taken advantage of. So petty to open a claim for a small amount.

If I am in the wrong then I will accept it. But I genuinely felt that this time I should stand up for what's right.

Paypal even tells him the same thing on messenger, then he opened a dispute against me.

Again, its not even close to being about the money. It's the principle of the whole thing. The principle that sellers terms can be ignored and there are no consequences. The principle that buyers are not always right. The principle that this is a hobby and people try to take advantage of one another.

See, even though he accepted he was wrong and doesn't blame me (second to last email). It still effects me to have a Paypal claim opened against me which I will most likely lose. So Im sure the fees will be taken out of my account anyway. I have only seen Paypal side with buyers.

Own up to your mistakes and move on. It's a lesson learned. Do better next time.

Deal with Deja_vu7 with caution. This seems to be common with him as I didn't include the peoples names he included that he's received refunds in the past from. I left them out of it.

No edits or dirty deletes just the facts.

Our email conversation:

Screen Shot 2021-11-02 at 7.50.38 PM by Pineapple Grenade, on Flickr
Screen Shot 2021-11-02 at 7.54.26 PM by Pineapple Grenade, on Flickr
Screen Shot 2021-11-02 at 7.56.06 PM by Pineapple Grenade, on Flickr
Screen Shot 2021-11-02 at 7.57.34 PM by Pineapple Grenade, on Flickr

The shipping address in question:

Screen Shot 2021-11-02 at 6.10.19 PM by Pineapple Grenade, on Flickr
Screen Shot 2021-11-02 at 6.11.09 PM by Pineapple Grenade, on Flickr
Screen Shot 2021-11-02 at 6.11.40 PM by Pineapple Grenade, on Flickr


The Paypal Claim:


Screen Shot 2021-11-02 at 8.07.30 PM by Pineapple Grenade, on Flickr
 
I may be wrong, but once a knife is marked delivered to the forwarder, I think you’re off the hook for claims. I think I would’ve just shipped the knife and been done with it. I know you didn’t want to take the risk in it being lost and them complaining but delivered is delivered once it gets to the forwarder.

In any case, they’re one more for the “ignore” list, sounds like trouble.
 
Did the address on the PP account match the forwarding companies address?
 
Then I would have to agree…If it shows delivered to the PP address, you should be off the hook with PP. I believe this is correct.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
Then I would have to agree…If it shows delivered to the PP address, you should be off the hook with PP. I believe this is correct.
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Ahh, Maybe. I did find other negative reviews regarding the address then the ones on google (ebay and some random pages). I already had a bad taste in my mouth that I was led into the deal under false pretense then once I found the negative reviews I was done with it. Thanks for the input!
 
PineappleGrenade said:
Second I googled the shipping address. It was international shipping forward company. Some might be wondering what the issues is? He paid, has a USA shipping address, Whats the issue? Well, a couple things. First and foremost I stated USA only in the thread.
I have shipped to the forward company before and had okay luck, but at this very moment I have a Single Finger Knuck that has been siting in Delaware for close to 2 months that's undeliverable to another of these international forward shipping companies. So you can see my frustration.

Again, its not even close to being about the money. It's the principle of the whole thing. The principle that sellers terms can be ignored and there are no consequences. The principle that buyers are not always right. The principle that this is a hobby and people try to take advantage of one another.

See, even though he accepted he was wrong and doesn't blame me (second to last email). It still effects me to have a Paypal claim opened against me which I will most likely lose. So Im sure the fees will be taken out of my account anyway. I have only seen Paypal side with buyers.

Own up to your mistakes and move on. It's a lesson learned. Do better next time.

Deal with Deja_vu7 with caution. This seems to be common with him as I didn't include the peoples names he included that he's received refunds in the past from. I left them out of it.
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^ You 100% made the right call, over the fact that you stated "USA ONLY" in your sales thread. The fact that this buyer, chose to ignore your sales disclaimer & buy your knife regardless, was deceptive on his part. Using one of these proxy addresses (International forwarding company), is still a risk.

And to those of you here who foolishly believe, that all a seller has to do, is have his package delivered to a proxy address here in the States to fulfill their end of the deal- you're wrong! I'm not going to waste my valuable time, and go look through the GBU archives here, & find the case where a International buyer here (his last name was Lin) from China, had purchased a high dollar fixed blade custom from one of the maker's here. In that particular case, the knife was safely delivered to the proxy address being used by the buyer here in the States. During it's transit, however, from the USA, to China, the tip of the knife was broken. When the knife was finally delivered to the buyer in China, he filed a PP dispute, stating the seller didn't package the knife safely (which if you knew the details was complete BS). PayPal subsequently sided with the buyer & it turned into one big several page clusterf*$k here in the GBU.

From that GBU thread forward, my selling terms (as did many other savvy member's here), changed, to: NO PROXY DEALS, NO PROXY BUYER'S/ADDRESSES- PERIOD!

Thanks for the head's up and exposing this member, PG. From this day forward, he should be informing every perspective seller, that he is an International member.
 
PineappleGrenade said:
Ahh, Maybe. I did find other negative reviews regarding the address then the ones on google (ebay and some random pages). I already had a bad taste in my mouth that I was led into the deal under false pretense then once I found the negative reviews I was done with it. Thanks for the input!
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Good decision! And you are welcome. :)
 
KELAMA said:
^ You 100% made the right call, over the fact that you stated "USA ONLY" in your sales thread. The fact that this buyer, chose to ignore your sales disclaimer & buy your knife regardless, was deceptive on his part. Using one of these proxy addresses (International forwarding company), is still a risk.

And to those of you here who foolishly believe, that all a seller has to do, is have his package delivered to a proxy address here in the States to fulfill their end of the deal- you're wrong! I'm not going to waste my valuable time, and go look through the GBU archives here, & find the case where a International buyer here (his last name was Lin) from China, had purchased a high dollar fixed blade custom from one of the maker's here. In that particular case, the knife was safely delivered to the proxy address being used by the buyer here in the States. During it's transit, however, from the USA, to China, the tip of the knife was broken. When the knife was finally delivered to the buyer in China, he filed a PP dispute, stating the seller didn't package the knife safely (which if you knew the details was complete BS). PayPal subsequently sided with the buyer & it turned into one big several page clusterf*$k here in the GBU.

From that GBU thread forward, my selling terms (as did many other savvy member's here), changed, to: NO PROXY DEALS, NO PROXY BUYER'S/ADDRESSES- PERIOD!

Thanks for the head's up and exposing this member, PG. From this day forward, he should be informing every perspective seller, that he is an International member.
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Apples and oranges. It is DELIVERY to the proxy address that completes the DELIVERY, and so someone receiving it in China can’t complain that it wasn’t delivered. A broken tip can be said to have occurred at any stage of the journey, and therefore it would be protected by claims process. Again, it isn’t “damage in transit” I’m talking about… it’s “missing packages”. Once it says “delivered” at the forwarder, someone cannot claim “undelivered”.
 
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I hate selling internationally and try to avoid it under all circumstances. I explicitly state in my sales threads that I will not take responsibility for any shipping or customs issues and that the buyer assumes all risk for international sales. Too many issues between customs and mail forwarding and the general risk of stuff literally going around the world.
 
PayPal fees are the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer and, it I remember correctly, passing them onto the buyer is a violation of their terms of service. Buyer certainly isn't without fault, as he should have asked if a forwarding address was acceptable before doing anything, but you chose to do business through PayPal and and financial loss or frustration with their policies is the result of your choice. IMO, you owe him a full refund, but I definitely think this thread is very much justified to warn folks of what he's doing and I certainly wouldn't do business with him.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
PayPal fees are the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer and, it I remember correctly, passing them onto the buyer is a violation of their terms of service. Buyer certainly isn't without fault, as he should have asked if a forwarding address was acceptable before doing anything, but you chose to do business through PayPal and and financial loss or frustration with their policies is the result of your choice. IMO, you owe him a full refund, but I definitely think this thread is very much justified to warn folks of what he's doing and I certainly wouldn't do business with him.
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In this case I would disagree- PayPal used to refund fees but no longer does so. In this case the buyer paid up and gave no indication he was an international buyer until the seller discovered after payment. Since the buyer was the one who failed to notice or abide by the seller's "USA ONLY" post description, and since the seller could not know until after the payment had already been made that the buyer was international, I don't think it's fair for the seller to eat the fee after making it clear in advance that his post was for US sales only.

I think it was entirely reasonable for the OP to just hit "Refund" on the Paypal transaction and to send back exactly how much he actually received.

I'd feel differently if the OP hadn't made clear in his sale thread that it was for US buyers only.
 
madcap_magician said:
In this case I would disagree- PayPal used to refund fees but no longer does so. In this case the buyer paid up and gave no indication he was an international buyer until the seller discovered after payment. Since the buyer was the one who failed to notice or abide by the seller's "USA ONLY" post description, and since the seller could not know until after the payment had already been made that the buyer was international, I don't think it's fair for the seller to eat the fee after making it clear in advance that his post was for US sales only.
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I think it's an excellent reason to use a service other than PayPal, but that was the seller's choice. Again, I certainly don't think the buyer was doing right, but the seller chose to deal with PayPal and agree to their terms. Bad action by the buyer doesn't invalidate that. If you're selling something it's your responsibility to be familiar with the policies of the entity you're going through and, if you're unhappy with them, to find a different entity.
 
I had that happen to me one time. I discovered it after the knife was shipped and had to pay for a package intercept and lose money in fees for the refund because the buyer tried to be slick even though my ad clearly stated USA only. It really pissed me off
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I think it's an excellent reason to use a service other than PayPal, but that was the seller's choice. Again, I certainly don't think the buyer was doing right, but the seller chose to deal with PayPal and agree to their terms. Bad action by the buyer doesn't invalidate that. If you're selling something it's your responsibility to be familiar with the policies of the entity you're going through and, if you're unhappy with them, to find a different entity.
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The buyer, being a user of PayPal, also agreed to their terms.

The buyer failed to meet the terms of the deal so the seller refunded the money.

PayPal keeps the fees for the transaction and refunds the rest, as per their policy.

Why should the seller be out money and not the buyer in this situation?
 
I think over the $14.19 if I were the buyer I'd be fine letting it go. my logic....if i didnt follow the sales rules its a small price to pay. I realize money is a relative thing, but the amount seems not worth the time and effort battling over, least to me. I also get the principle deal but seems the buyer didn't read or follow the rules so principle doesn't hold up. less I read it all wrong or some angle hasn't been explained yet?

did anyone tag the buyer? ..so he gets his say.....nevermind..... boru13 already did before I posted.
 
Hello guys, I always run an honest business. I paid $ 312 G / S. I didn’t try to offend or deceive anyone. But you could write, my friend, there is not enough $ 3, since the commission is more than expected, throw off more. The bottom line is that you squeezed $ 3, I squeezed 15. This is also a matter of principle.
 
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