Bad Bad deal with Deja_vu7 in the Automatic Exchange

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madcap_magician said:
I don't think that's how it works now. Basically I believe what happened is that the buyer paid, and the OP received what was paid less fees, as per normal. Then the OP refunded using PayPal's refund option. But now PayPal only refunds the net amount that the seller received to the buyer. There was no manual change of the refund amount by the OP.
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I strongly suspect the reason that was the amount refunded is that it was all the money in the OP's PayPal account.
 
What losses there are should be the buyers IMO. He did not read the rules of the sale, Has a misleading location associated with his profile and failed to divulge that it was an international sale with an intermediary. I suggest he corrects all 3 in the future.
I have no problem doing this type of deal, but I do want to be informed ahead of time, so we can establish the ground rules for the transaction , with either party having the right to not agree. Obviously in this case the OP did not care to do this type of transaction, and would have informed the buyer of such if he had known this was what it was going to be-and the money never would have changed hands(and fees lost)
 
Deja_vu7 said:
Hello guys, I always run an honest business. I paid $ 312 G / S. I didn’t try to offend or deceive anyone. But you could write, my friend, there is not enough $ 3, since the commission is more than expected, throw off more. The bottom line is that you squeezed $ 3, I squeezed 15. This is also a matter of principle.
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You don't get to argue "principle", when your intentional deception caused the issue in the first place.

You owe the seller money, because you ignored the sale terms, and attempted to take advantage of him, knowing that he would get less than his asking price, without him knowing you were going to initiate an international transaction.
 
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Deja_vu7 said:
Hello guys, I always run an honest business. I paid $ 312 G / S. I didn’t try to offend or deceive anyone. But you could write, my friend, there is not enough $ 3, since the commission is more than expected, throw off more. The bottom line is that you squeezed $ 3, I squeezed 15. This is also a matter of principle.
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And straight on to the "do not deal/ignore" list you go!!
 
Blues said:
I believe that is what he said earlier in the thread. It was the balance he had in the account.
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I am not sure I'm understanding you guys. Are you saying that you think if the OP had additional money in his PayPal balance that the buyer would have been refunded the full amount he paid, including the fees PayPal took in the initial transaction? And that the only reason the buyer was not refunded every cent he paid is because the seller didn't have any additional money in his account? Because I do not believe that is how PayPal handles refunds now.

If you attempt to make a transaction with your PayPal balance and the transaction cost exceeds your balance, PayPal will prompt you to fill in the credit card or back information for the rest of the transaction. I believe that when the seller opted to refund the transaction that PayPal refunded the transaction value less their fee and considered that to be a full refund. If they had intended the seller to pay for the additional money, they would have prompted him for another funding source.
 
Putting aside whatever paypal's terms are, the buyer did not follow the instructions of the sale. The buyer needs to make this right. The buyer should receive negative feedback for this.

Perhaps we need to start adding that "USA only" means just that, explicitly. The buyer needs to live in the US, the funds need to come from the US, the eventual destination needs to be the US. No shipping forwarders. Etc, etc, etc....

I guess this is what selling has come to these days. Do I have to mention the buyer's join date and post areas?
 
madcap_magician said:
I am not sure I'm understanding you guys. Are you saying that you think if the OP had additional money in his PayPal balance that the buyer would have been refunded the full amount he paid, including the fees PayPal took in the initial transaction? And that the only reason the buyer was not refunded every cent he paid is because the seller didn't have any additional money in his account? Because I do not believe that is how PayPal handles refunds now.

If you attempt to make a transaction with your PayPal balance and the transaction cost exceeds your balance, PayPal will prompt you to fill in the credit card or back information for the rest of the transaction. I believe that when the seller opted to refund the transaction that PayPal refunded the transaction value less their fee and considered that to be a full refund. If they had intended the seller to pay for the additional money, they would have prompted him for another funding source.
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Hmmm, I thought I had explained what happened pretty well in my original post. Let me try again and see were it takes us.

- Buyer pays the amount of $312
- I receive $297.81 (due to Paypal fees because buyer used Goods and Services, which I believe is the only option for International accounts)
- I refund buyer $297.81
- Buyer wants additional $14.19

Hypothetical - If I had $2000 in my account or I had $297.81 in my account, I would be out $14.19 either way if I had returned the total of $312 to the buyer.

Paypal takes the fees upfront. I don't pay them at the end of the month or weekly. They are taken out of the initial transaction.

If during the PayPal refund screen I had sent back a refund of $312 it would have taken the refund from my bank account because the available balance of $297.81 would have not covered the full amount of $312. Leaving $297.81 in my Paypal account available balance but removing $312 from my bank account. Again, leaving me to cover the cost of the $14.19 PayPal fee.

You are absolutely correct that I considered this to be a full refund. I am not willing to be out any money due to the buyers neglect and deception.

Maybe these articles I found can explain it better than I can.

https://www.eseller365.com/paypal-will-no-longer-refund-transaction-fees-on-refunds/

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/20/20876570/paypal-refund-fee-policy-change-sellers-controversy

I don't know if this helps explain any better. If you have anymore questions please let me know and I will try my best to answer.
 
craytab said:
Putting aside whatever paypal's terms are, the buyer did not follow the instructions of the sale. The buyer needs to make this right. The buyer should receive negative feedback for this.

Perhaps we need to start adding that "USA only" means just that, explicitly. The buyer needs to live in the US, the funds need to come from the US, the eventual destination needs to be the US. No shipping forwarders. Etc, etc, etc....

I guess this is what selling has come to these days. Do I have to mention the buyer's join date and post areas?
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Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.
 
I think people get confused because flea bay would refund fees. The 3%+ in fees was protection for a one-time transaction. I think I‘ve read the buyer referring to PayPal fees as a ”commission”, and that isn’t accurate… it’s more like “overhead”.
 
After reading this whole thread, I'm inclined to consider the $14.19 the buyer is out, his "I either can't read, or feel that rules don't apply to me" Tax. He needs to do the right thing and cancel his dispute.

Also, if he's "running a business", he needs the proper membership level.
 
Quiet said:
After reading this whole thread, I'm inclined to consider the $14.19 the buyer is out, his "I either can't read, or feel that rules don't apply to me" Tax. He needs to do the right thing and cancel his dispute.

Also, if he's "running a business", he needs the proper membership level.
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Agreed, and the intentional deception by listing a location as Wilmington, DE instead of the ACTUAL location (not in the US) to make people believe they are located in the US to get deals with people who are only willing to ship domestically is a piss poor tactic.
 
I had no idea PayPal pockets the fees on refunds. Last I checked they refunded the fees as well when that happened.
 
Since buyer initiated a request for a refund, he is out the processing fees.

Deja_vu7 consider it a loss, this isn’t on the buyer and I think you should cancel your claim. If the seller initiated the refund and not you, that would be different… had you previously disclosed the details of freight forwarding and being international. Your lack of transparency on that is an issue.

All the details of freight forwarding/international should be disclosed before money changes hands.

”Hi, I notice your post is US only. I am in China and I use a freight forwarder located in the US. Do you have an issue with that?”

See how easy that is?
 
PineappleGrenade said:
Hmmm, I thought I had explained what happened pretty well in my original post. Let me try again and see were it takes us.

- Buyer pays the amount of $312
- I receive $297.81 (due to Paypal fees because buyer used Goods and Services, which I believe is the only option for International accounts)
- I refund buyer $297.81
- Buyer wants additional $14.19

Hypothetical - If I had $2000 in my account or I had $297.81 in my account, I would be out $14.19 either way if I had returned the total of $312 to the buyer.

Paypal takes the fees upfront. I don't pay them at the end of the month or weekly. They are taken out of the initial transaction.

If during the PayPal refund screen I had sent back a refund of $312 it would have taken the refund from my bank account because the available balance of $297.81 would have not covered the full amount of $312. Leaving $297.81 in my Paypal account available balance but removing $312 from my bank account. Again, leaving me to cover the cost of the $14.19 PayPal fee.

You are absolutely correct that I considered this to be a full refund. I am not willing to be out any money due to the buyers neglect and deception.

Maybe these articles I found can explain it better than I can.

https://www.eseller365.com/paypal-will-no-longer-refund-transaction-fees-on-refunds/

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/20/20876570/paypal-refund-fee-policy-change-sellers-controversy

I don't know if this helps explain any better. If you have anymore questions please let me know and I will try my best to answer.
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I understand that, I think I might be the only one misunderstanding, so let me reword my question:

1. Buyer paid $312.
2. You received a net $297.81 (which flagged your concern for the international transaction because the rate was different).
3. You refunded $297.81.

Now here's the point where I don't know what happened and am curious - did you just hit the 'refund transaction' button and the buyer automatically got $297.81, or was there some sort of option where you could manually enter the refund amount at a different amount?

The reason I'm stuck on this is that I think it was the former, in which case I think you did exactly what you're supposed to do, and therefore PayPal functionally took it out of the buyer, kind of like a restocking fee. If on the other hand the refund defaulted to $312 and you manually changed it to $297.81, then it was you taking the fees out of the buyer.

I want to be clear that regardless I don't think you were in the wrong, I agree with the majority that the $14.19 the buyer is out is a tax on poor reading comprehension (although I don't think what he did rises to the level of deliberate fraud or deception in terms of using his forwarding address as his location). I'm just trying to figure out whether PayPal is defaulting the refund amount to the amount that the seller received net or if the seller manually enters the refund amount, if that makes sense?
 
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