BAD deal with scfishr

I think this is one of those unfortunate incidents where neither side really did anything very wrong, nor is either party in my eyes a bad, or untrustworthy person, and yet, here we are. I think both parties should write each other off as far as future dealings go, but I personally would not neccessarily avoid either if a deal presented itself, I dont think either person is too much at fault.

I do think however that as soon as the knife was listed on Ebay, the seller no longer had any responsibility to take it back, no matter what, it's sold at that point as far as I'm concerned. Of course I understand the other side too, where the buyer felt he was not going to get a response from the seller, so took matters nto his own hands, like I said, this is one of those things where everything just went bad.

One point that I find difficult to understand is, the idea of whether a buyer is entitled to return a knife "just because", just because its not what he expected, he realized he couldn't afford it, etc. Where do you draw the line?

Either a buyer can return a knife for any reason, or not, you really can't qualify the reasoning, since obviously, the buyer can really say whatever he wants to, he noticed a tiny flaw (all knives have them if you're anal enough), I don't think you can say: "A buyer can return the knife if it has a flaw, isn't as described, etc". but then say that he can't if the reason is he just doesn't like it, he can't afford it, it's too nice... It has to be one or the other as I see it.

Look, as a sometimes seller, I'd be pissed if a buyer wanted a refund because he just realized he couldn't afford it, it's not "for him", sure, seems like things he should have realized before I sent him the knife, but, as a seller who values this trust based community and wants to always be a trusted seller, I will always take a knife back, for any reason, no matter how lame. Thats just the way I think it should be. Of course I won't if the knife has incurred any damage since it left me, but barring that, yes, I think a buyer should always take a knife back, no questions asked, even if the stated reason is a poor one.

So, when people say that a seller shouldn't take a knife back as long as it was as described, I disagree with this, it sucks to get a knife back you thought was sold, especially under the circumstances the seller was in in this case, but I think that's the the honorable way to do things in knife forums.

And, I'm not saying the seller did not agree to take it back, I'm just commenting on the general issue raised in this thread about how or when a buyer is entitled to a refund.

And yes, maybe technically these are terms that need to be agreed on before the deal happens, but I don't think honor and trust should take a back seat to what amounts to technicalities.

Just my opinion.
 
I think another issue is patience, if your working on a deal, or working on backing out of a deal, some amount of patience is due. Still up to each individual, but another couple of days in negotiation and another week or so and all this could have been avoided and nobody would be mad.

I think it's a good lesson for everyone who buys/sells.
 
Droc217,

I have an idea :eek:

I will list the knife for you under my gold membership on the forum(has been done before)

You handle the correspondence and shipping details, a review period or whatever you think needs to be to insure a good deal

if the knife does sell, its your baby, and I am absolved completely

You set the price, you are already on record as saying you would take $300.00, the knife is worth $375.00 all day long.

If the knife does not sell by the time my next check rolls around I will buy the knife back as originally proposed(less shipping and paypal)

This is being done to increase your chances of getting your money back faster than if you had to wait for my next check

This is the best I can do at this point,

Let me know

scfishr
 
Just for clarity,


You listed this knife the day after you got it, not a week later, it was shipped on the 20th usps priority mail, received on the 23, listed on the 24th



7 On Apr 23, 2005, at 1:11 PM, droc217@comcast.net wrote: I was wondering if you'd take the BM E back, I'll pay you back for what it cost you to ship it here, plus the othe 1.5% of thePayPalfees you covered. It is a lot nicer than I expected and it is not really what I was looking for. I was looking for more of a user BM and this one is so nice I don't even want to use it. If not, that's cool, I'll just try to sell it for what I paid back on the knife forums orsomething. Thanks, Dan


The start date of your listing was the 24th, the day after you received the knife,

Then made this statement:


I tried to sell it after he ignored my request to return (edited from sell) it for more than a week. I thought he wasn't going to reply to my request, which was fine, I can live with that.

I would have sold the knife for much less than I bought it for. I am not interested in "making a buck" and I would not stake my reputation or honor trying to do so.

It's about honoring your word and being honest, neither of which it seems like he is interested in.

Furthermore, insulting me by calling me an oopma loopma and saying what I say is bullshit hardly seems like honorable things either.







Current bid: US $345.00 (Reserve not met)

Ended: Apr-29-05 07:53:59 PDT
Start time: Apr-24-05 07:53:59 PDT
History: 12 bids (US $1.00 starting bid)
High bidder: webscrounger ( 671)

Item location: Livermore, California
United States
Ships to: United States
Shipping costs: Calculate shipping costs
Shipping, payment details and return policy


Seller information
d-roc217 ( 21)

Feedback Score: 21
Positive Feedback: 100%
Member since Jan-18-03 in United States

Read feedback comments
Add to Favorite Sellers
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Description (revised)

Busse Battle Mistress E with high luster finish, snakeskin micarta scales and black sheath wiht teklock. The previous owner said it had been lightly used, then sent into the shop for the satin finish, snakeskin handles and got it resharpened. It does have the asymmetrical grind. I would say it is 95% with *very* minor wear from the sheath. It's so damn shiny I had a hard time taking a picture of it.




Is it possible that you could contact this buyer and see if he is still interested?
 
I log on today to see the few reputation points I had on this forum completely shot.

scfishr it never was about the knife, but that you told me you'd take it back, changed your mind and got ugly about it.

Saying I lied and edited the e-mails I posted was not very nice. I did not edit them whatsoever, so trying to destroy my trustworthiness without foundation was not very nice either.

Insulting me and calling me a liar apperantly earned you a lot of good reputaion around here and me remaining calm, not insulting anyone and telling the truth earned me a bad reputation.

I do not need to further my aggrivation any further on this matter. Since it seems a lot of the people here are more interested in intstigating a fight and are looking for a whipping boy, this will be my last post on this forum. I do not need to associate myself with such people, bad manners are catching.


BTW I sold the knife today for $350 shipped, including PayPal fees, for anyone who was questioning my motives or thought I was "just trying to make a buck" like scfishr, who bought it for $300 then sold it to me for $375, then wouldn't take it back since he had already made his money. And yes I did know what he paid for it when I bought it.

Hope all the hassle was worth the $75 fish.

Everyone else who wants to jump on the bandwagon, have at it, dish all the bad rep points at me you want. If it makes your life better I am happy for you.

"Those who turn to insulting one another have run out of intelligent things to say." -Socrates
 
Glad you sold the knife,

I bought a scotchbrite belt, $36.00(to restore that knife) with shipping and spent 4hrs restoring the finish on that blade, net "profit" 39.00 divided by 4hrs----less shipping and paypal fee`s=approx, $17.00profit

Amount for dealing with this while on vacation, not $17,000.00 much less $17.00

Should I or anyone else suffer for someone elses ignorance? I say let the ignorant pay their own way, that way they can walk beside us much sooner.


I really made out, and the proof is in the posting as to who is a liar, you don`t need me.



AND YES YOU DID EDIT MY EMAIL RESPONSES AND OMITTED DATES ,CALL IT WHAT IT IS
 
I do not know Scfishr at all.

droc217, as many people here said you willingly paid $375 for a user knife and instead got one in near mint condition. As has been asked before, where is the problem there? You paid expecting less than what you got. Youwere happy with your purchase and then you weren't. Myself, I love breaking in a new knife. Once I do I know that I will never sell it and it becomes mine... it is a pleasurable thing.

You said in one of your posts in this thread that you were willing to sell the knife for "much less" than what you paid for it. The auction went to $345 with reserve not met... Out of curiousity and if you are willing to answer, what reserve was set for it? You see, 30 dollars doesn't seem like MUCH less to me, it seems like a little bit.

I can guarantee you that SCfishr didn't make $75 on this deal. You said yourself that this knife was factory reconditioned. News Flash: this costs money.

I am glad you sold your knife. I hope that transaction goes smoothly. However, it is my opinion that you would have best served yourself here on this little knife loving community by taking one step back and not so adamantly defending yourself that you are forced to contradiction.

edit: I just read SCfishr's reply above. He openly states that he refinished the knife himself. In your ebay auction you state that it was factory reconditioned (leading me to state so above and in error).

You don't need to connect the dots to see who I think is a liar.
 
Posted by droc217:

I log on today to see the few reputation points I had on this forum completely shot.
Click to expand...


ROTFLMAO If you're wondering why. . . .I'll try to make it as simple as possible. - - - - -> You shot yourself, more than once, with your own bullets ! :D

Personally, based on your actions (droc217). . . .I wouldn't deal with you to save my asss ! ;)
 
Good to see that you managed to sell the knife. The buyer got a great deal. In my opinion you should have kept it, but I am sure that there was a reason for your buyer's remorse.

It is a real shame that you decided that your best course of action was to attack scfishr's integrity. That is was got you all the negative rep.

I think you are overreacting by deciding that you no longer want to be a part of this community, but that's your decision to make. Personally, I would use this as a learning experience and put it behind me.

Anyway, if you are leaving, take care.
 
When a relative newbie goes up against a proven member of the Forums, in good standing, the deck is stacked against them. There are secret handshakes and rules of etiquette that those in the know, know, and that the new, better learn in a hurry, or sleep with the fishes.

One of the rules is that as much as we love this hobby/passion/insanity, life happens, and you have to allow for that.

Money is outlayed, and your knife/responses to questions are delayed. There is an acceptable delay period before you call out the big guns/dogs of war, and it is measured in days, not hours.

I had a check that was in the mail to a maker take two days longer than it should have to show up. Life happens. I had more than a few makers take 60 days or more past the promised delivery date to deliver, even when there were substantial deposits on the table, life happens.

The new guy jumped the gun on our way of doing things, and maybe it is all of our faults. EDUCATE every person you bring into this hobby! If there is such a thing as colored people time, there is for damn sure such a thing as knife people time, and to rush it is to ask for certain disaster. See above.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
This thread reads just like the Supreme court justice debates I often hear on NPR. Each member takes a stance and rationalizes their point of view with many references to informal traditions that have become standard in the area of buying/selling/trading. It is very interesting and I must admit I found Megalobytes opinions most closely follow my own (Hope Mega does not consider that an insult :) )

Everyone seems to agree there are a set of rules by which one sells/buys. "First come", "3 day inspection period", even "buyer paid Paypal fees" appears on it's way to becoming a rule.

Every time I write "rule" I cringe. They aren't rules but rather traditions that have made it possible for a diverse group of people who share a common love to work out a means of sharing that love.

The majority of the thread is various interpretations of the rules *cringe*. "What reason may a buyer return a knife", "if it's not agreed upon then it's up to interpretation". It's interesting to read everyone's feelings on what rules a deal should follow. Often times a thread like this will degrade into insults and "he said/she said" and someone's (often times both parties') reputation is destroyed.

Having read both sides I believe both parties are honorable people and I would not hesitate to deal with either one. BUT, I would certainly document and be aware of potential problems. Hell, I wonder if I should use more care when dealing with anyone (except of course Mega). I would hate to be brought before this inquisition since I am not much of a poster hence not well known.

Do we need to document these rules in order to eliminate the interpretations and to provide everyone the ability to have a common foundation?


JC III
 
Common sense shall prevail.
There was not a lot used by droc217.
Just an opinion.
Randy



P.S Haste makes waste.
 
Hi JSCiii, of course I take it as a compliment, and I'd be happy to deal with you any time too. :)

It's sad to see how this thing turned out, BF losing what could have been a good member over what amounts to at most IMO, some impulsive behavior, both in buying the knife and starting the thread, from what I have read, I still don't think either party was dishonest, though they each seem to feel the other was, once bad feeings exist, it's hard to step back.

Oh, and Steve, isn't that supposed to be: "Sleeps with the fishes?" :)
 
Cougar Allen said:
This is one everyone is going to have to decide for themselves. Is scfishr making a reasonable effort to satisfy droc217? Has he been making a reasonable effort from the beginning? Who's being unreasonable here? You've seen what both parties have to say, now you can decide for yourself whether you want to trade with either of them in the future.
Click to expand...

Exactly! scfishr 1 droc217 0, that is my take on it. I have never dealt with either person but, from reading this thread carefully, I would deal with scfishr before I would deal with droc217. Enough said from me.
 
Hello:
Just had to add my worthless opinion. This stuff is like a soap opera, or maybe a season of "Combat". It just continues, even though the action is done. Like everyone here with sense believes, a couple of weeks of patience and there is no problem, or even one telephone call, and there is no problem. Personally, buyer's remorse is the buyers problem; he can always resell. Seller's job is to deliver the knife promised, in the condition described, in the time frame discussed.

It's funny that I actually got remorse once and even considered reselling a knife I bought. After living with it for a month, it moved up to one of my favorites. It would be about the last one to part with, so you never can really count on those too hasty impressions.

A great entertaining thread. Love it.
rich :)
 
Not fueling the fire. Just an observation.

scfishr went out of his way to help. droc217 comes in strong and swearing all because he wanted to send the knife back?

There is nothing wrong with scfishr at all. Thanks for this thread however as I know not to deal with droc217. :)
 
scfishr did what he could do. That was all that is required of him. He made it simple actually.

droc217 got peeved too quickly. Over complicating the matter. Not unusual when communicating through email.

Simple confusion and totally not worthy of being posted here. Just take the knife and sell it on ebay again or here on BF. I'm sure you'll recover your loss. It's in great shape as specified by both parties. So selling won't be a problem. if you put it on ebay after asking for a refund, that would make the refund null IMHO. After that, you would have to eat the loss if it didn't sell by most people's standards.

No reason to fight or split any more hairs. Just re sell it elsewhere. You will get at least what you paid I am sure. I see now it's sold so good for you. maybe not exactly what you wanted for it but fair enough, no? No harm no foul. As well, sometimes people cannot always reply immediately to emails. Life gets in the way and or internet complications do. Posting here always offends an individuals ego. Regardless if it's a simple case of miscommunication. Or, if neither party is quite wrong or whatever. Always endeavor to solve any problems with the other person before even threatening them with this kind of post. It makes for defensiveness and anger on the other party's side and no good will come of it. Whether the post sale debate takes a day or a couple months, do what it takes to fix it before ending up here. Even the slightest inflection in type that would make someone think you are being derogatory or nasty, will create name calling and nastier rebuttals. It's always the case as I've seen it. Heck, I've fallen victim to the same a couple times.
 
SAKguy said:
Not fueling the fire. Just an observation.

scfishr went out of his way to help. droc217 comes in strong and swearing all because he wanted to send the knife back?

There is nothing wrong with scfishr at all. Thanks for this thread however as I know not to deal with droc217. :)
Click to expand...

Corkie...why did you bring a FIVE MONTH OLD POST back up from the grave?????
 
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