Bad deal with SSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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sticknrun

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Hello all,

I have never posted someone with a "bad" rep, however, I really need advice and opinions on a "deal" that I had with SSS. If you do not know who he is, he is the "Gold Member" that has about 15 auto's for sale in the auto for sale forum.

I have all of the original emails and if I can figure out how to put them in this thread I will. If I can't, I will probably email them to one of my forum friends so that he could put them in.

I will try to be as thorough as possible. First, I sent SSS an email asking him if he was interested in a trade for his AFO. I offered him a like new, never used Benchmade Emerson Auto and a like new, never used G.T. Mini Auto. He replied that he was interested but requested some pics. I do not have the capability to post the actual pics, so I did my best to give links and good descriptions of both knives. He emailed me back and stated that only one pic came through, but "if you are offering both knives for trade I'll take a chance. Send the knives to (his address). Upon receipt of the knives I'll ship the Afo to you."
I decided that I would ship them first thinking that he didn't know me and trust was an issue.

Well yesterday I received an email stating that he didn't want to go through with the deal because he wrongly assumed that the G.T. was a full size auto. Even though in my post I said that it had a blade of 2 inches. He then stated that he didn't like the Benchmade because of the G-10 handles. He said he wanted to return my knives to me and cover shipping. He also stated that he "cleaned and lubricated my knives" which is complete B.S. because I do not want my knives back that someone else molested. He also said he is willing to listen to any other ideas that I had. I immediately emailed him back yeserday and told him to send me the AFO now because a deal is a deal. There was no "inspection period". I sent him both of my knives first because I felt that he didn't trust me enough to actually send them.

Well, I gave him untill noon today to reply and he didn't so now I am in the good, bad and ugly. I feel that he should ship me the AFO because both of my knives were as described and he is trying to get out of a deal that we made. I will have my original emails for you all as soon as I can. Let me know what you all think.

Mike
 
E-mails between the two:

1)

SSS,

I read one of your posts that you may except trades so I figured that I
would give it a try. I am interested in your BM AFO with partially
serrated blade. I have these two knives to trade for it if you are
interested:

Benchmade Emerson Auto 9700S, partially serrated, tanto, chisel grind,
ats-34, never cut or sharpened. Two tiny scratches on the flat side of
the blade. Has pocket clip and I'll throw in a horizontal belt sheath.
These are not have not been made for a while. I have seen these sell
for $125 to 150.

G.T. California Mini Auto, two inch black plain blade, ats-34, never cut
or sharpened, both of these knives were just admired and put away. I
paid $100 for this one.

Though I would try. Let me know. Thanks.

2)

Mike could you send me some pictures of these knives?
-I would consider them for trade. Thank you for your reply.Raymond aka

3)

Mike only one picture came through. If your offering both knives for trade
I'll take a chance. Send the knives to : (Address Removed for now) Upon receipt of the knives I'll ship the afo to
you.Please
include your shipping information.Thank you.Raymond

4)

Mike I don't think that I can make this deal and I assume full
responsibility.First I didn't take the appropriate measures to properly
reference these models.I wrongfuly assumed that the gt was a full size
knife, and did not realize that the benchmade had a g10 handle. I don’t see
how
I could sell this miniature for any more than $40.. given that anyone
could
buy an M/T mini udt for about $65.00.As far as the benchmade is concerned
g10 handles aren't not as useful on an auto as on other knives, because
the
handles flex with the users grip. Too tight a grip and it can prevent the
blade from deploying fully. I did take the opportunity take take these
into
my shop and clean and lubricate them properly, I'm sure this might seems
meaningless to you but I thought that’s at least what I owed you. I will
refund your shipping when I ship these back to you, then again, I feel I
owe
this much to you. I’ll wait for your reply before I take further
action.Raymond.PS If you have any suggestions I'm willing to listen to
them..

5)

Absolutely not! I gave you all of the information that you needed on
both of those knives. I even stated in one of my emails that the G.T.
"mini" auto had a two inch blade. Also, the post that I gave you on the
BM gave a picture of it. You need to follow through with this deal and
ship the AFO immediately. This was not a "send knives and I will
examine trade". I shipped these knives to you as a trust trade that
favored you. You even "cleaned and lubricated them". Would you want me
to clean and lubricate your knife without knowing me. Probably not. I
have already emailed a respected member of Blade forums and forwarded all
of the emails along with keeping copies of all of them. Seriously SSS,
you have not been screwed in this trade. I realize that you said that
you are taking responsibility for your actions but that includes
following through with the deal. I have not posted in the Good, Bad,
and Ugly because I do not want to tamper with your reputation because I
know you have quite a bit to sell. One bad post and everyone seems to
favor one side and if it wasn't you, you probably wouldn't sell any
more in Blade forums. If you do not agree to send me the AFO, I will go
to that forum along with microholics.org and let them know the deal. I
am not trying to make threats or sound like a dick, but dude, you can't
do something like this. A trade is an agreement between two people.
You can't break an agreement because "you" didn't research these knives
to see if you liked them. Let me know what you are going to do.

Frustrated,

Mike
_____________________________________________________________________

Well Sticknrun,

I think you got the sh-t end of this deal. You have been around here for awhile and have some good feedback on GB&U, so I am not sure why a newer member would require you to send first. The three day inspection period that is offered as a standard for most members here is, at least to me, to check on the condition of the knives. If the knives were received and it wasn't what they expected, then why did he clean and lubricate them?? :confused: From what I have read, it appears the condition on the knives is not what’s in question, instead its the models of knives that are in question or should I say, not to his liking. You listed exactly what they were and even provided a picture of one of them, how could there have been confusion?? I guess he figured he could make enough money from them. And I think that’s the bottom line. Why?? B/C in every aspect of the word, I feel SSS is a knife dealer. Why? lets examine some facts.
_____________________________________________________________________
SSS is on all three forums I frequent. Which are:

-Blade Forums - User ID SSS
-Microholics - User ID Sporting Specialist (Hmmm)
-Knife Forums - User ID SSS

F.Here on Blade Forums, SSS started off his first posts with a Gold Membership and was selling multiple knives within the first couple days of arriving here.

(Well, some people want to sell knives in their collection, what better place than BFC)

F.Of SSS's 43 posts here on Blade Forums, 42 of them are in the exchange area.

(Well, that may be the only reason for him to post, he may be a lurker in other forums or not have time to read and contribute in other sections)

F.Of SSS's 53 posts on Knife Forums and his 76 posts on Microholics, you will find the same thing, ALL For Sale Posts

(Again, he must be just selling off his collection right?)

Here is a quote from another forum when SSS was confronted:


AS FOR BEING A DEALER I PURCHASED AS MANY M/T'S AS I COULD SO AS TO DEFRAY MY NEWLY AQUIRED ADDICTION.BUY SIX, SELL FIVE, KEEP ONE
Click to expand...

Buying 6 knives wholesale and selling them makes you a dealer for the most part right?? Does it matter if you keep one of them??

Here is the thread that this quote was taken from.

So lets recap. I can buy 10 knives, all one model on wholesale. Sell 9 of them here and keep one of them for myself and I am not a dealer right??

I'll let you guys decide his dealer status

_____________________________________________________________________

It is of my opinion Sticknrun that the trade was made or supposed to be made so he may sell the two knives he gets from you at a profit instead of selling his. The reason for his wanting to exchange has nothing to do with the condition of the knives, but him not researching the trade (His reasoning). I think he needs to send you the AFO.
 
I guess the issue is integrity, as a trade was agreed upon which was not followed through with. Misrepresentation of a knife is clearly grounds for calling a trade off, whereas false assumption of what one person is trading for probably should not be. If before trading the knives, you provided a true and accurate description of the knives, I would consider that the trade should be binding. I personally consider an inspection period to be assumed. When I receive a knife, I immediately make sure that it is in the agreed condition, and I immediately contact the other party if it is not in the specified condition. If I trade for a knife, and the knife is in the specified condition, but is not really what I was looking for, I still consider the trade to be complete. When considering a trade, I research value, length of blade, handle materials, weight of knife, etc. Then, if the knife isn't the one for me, I know that the value is there, as to re-trade or sell it to get something that I do want. Unless you agreed that the trade would be terminated if one party didn't like the knife/knives being traded for, I would consider it a done deal. Also, until a trade is finalized, with both parties in agreement that the trade was sucessful, the knives involved should be left in the condition that they were shipped. Although cleaning and lubing a knife probably will make the knife function better and won't decrease value, it still shouldn't be done until the trade is finalized. Sticknrun obviously didn't appreciate any slight modification to his knives, and it should not be assumed that he would.

The bottom line: The trade conditions were met, so the trade is finalized, with SSS sending you the AFO.

I would also say that SSS is not too far out of line in asking for a trade back, but such a trade back would be at your discretion. You have said that you want the AFO, not a trade back, so SSS should send the AFO to you, and maybe do a little bit more research before agreeing to other trade offers.
 
I would also like to add:

I don’t feel that SSS had malicious intent with this deal, however I feel that if two knives were delivered exactly as described, and the person went so far as to perform maintenance on the knives, that they should have to come through on the trade from their end
 
Looks to me like there were misconceptions on both sides.

There's nothing that can be binding on this. If SSS ships sticknrun his knives back, plus shipping, the deal is as done as it's going to get.

I don't think anything horribly grievious has been done here.

Dealer, not a dealer, I don't think it matters. SSS admitted his mistake, offered up shipping, and isn't going to keep the knives or otherwise try to screw you.

Butch up.

Pierre
 
hmmm, I'd say this, have him return the knives. Make sure the knives are OK when returned. Move on.

Put SSS in you doesn't read carefuly and assumes alot category for future reference.
 
Hopefully he just did basic cleaning and lubricating. If so, no real harm done as long as he knew what he was doing.

It is my belief that there is no such thing as no inspection period. When people do not know the knives they are trading for or purchasing, they should always get a chance to look them over and reverse the deal if they are unhappy.

In my opinion SSS has done nothing wrong here, unless he has performed maintenance to these knives.
 
I personally don't think inspection periods should be assumed.This is not to say I would not agree to such a period.There are not a set of standard trading rules here.People have opinions as to trade etiquette criteria that have evolved into a set of unwritten rules here on the forums that some assume you observe.Make sure before a trade or sale deal is agreed upon that you also confirm "inspection periods" "burden of return shipment costs" etc.I think this guy should have done his research before committing to a trade and not assume a inspection period other than obvious defects (blade play,lock-up),misrepresentation of condition etc.I can't tell you what to do,you have lived up to your end of the trade and agreements not contingent on him mistakenly assuming the knife was a different model or realizing another had g-10.Obviously the descripions were adequate.Two choices as I see it-**insist he live up to his end of the trade or take your knives back and never trade with him again.
 
In my opinion once SSS has cleaned and lubricated the knives they are his. If he wasn’t going to keep them he had no right to tamper with them. He should send you your AFO immediately!
 
Ookpik is right on! SSS in my opinion first had NO grounds to ask for an established members knives to be shipped first,that to me is something a dealer would do and second he had N O right to tamper with your knives weather it be a cleaning or pick his finger nails with them. This whole thing sounds in very bad taste, and take it from a chef,I know bad taste! :barf:
 
I disagree with some of the opinions here but we are all entitled to our on opinions. I have done alot of trading on the forums and I have not had any problems. I do know that if I made any trade with any member and they were not satisfied I would not have a problem sending the knife back. I am sure all of us have some different views on the shape of a given knife. LNIB can be a little vague. If SSS sent your knives back and paid shipping then he did all he could do. You are not out any money you just have your knives. I also wouldn't call cleaning a knife molesting it. We all take risks when we make trades but if there is no money lost in a deal then it is a good deal. This was not a bad deal in my humble opinion and I truly don't want to see someone's name ruined on the forums over something like this. You didn't get the knife you wanted but you did not lose any money either. I think it is time to move on!If SSS has a knife for sale that I want I certainly want worry about buying it because of something like this. Come on guys lets all be friends! :)
 
I have no problem EVER returning a trade item,I ALWAYS pay shipping and I also include a little something extra just for grins.I wouldn't go so far as to say I would never buy something from SSS as a matter of fact if he had something for a good price and I wanted it I would buy it. All I'm saying is this particular situation sounds like it was done in bad taste. The Emails clearly stated what size and what the products were.SSS's comment was " I don’t see
how
I could sell this miniature for any more than $40.. given that anyone
could
buy an M/T mini udt for about $65.00." To me that sounds like a dealer. Buyers remorse is NOT the sellers problem.
 
The golden rule should be a deal is not finalized until both parties are happy.

Also, sticknrun should have told SSS that he was going to post this here.

I will E-mail SSS so he can respond.

IMO, If SSS had not cleaned and lubed the knives and was willing to pay shipping both ways; he has the right to change his mind.

Since SSS did clean and lube the knives he should follow through with the deal.

If you don't want someones knives; do not do ANYTHING to them.
 
Originally posted by RGRAY
...IMO, If SSS had not cleaned and lubed the knives and was willing to pay shipping both ways; he has the right to change his mind.

Since SSS did clean and lube the knives he should follow through with the deal.

If you don't want someones knives; do not do ANYTHING to them.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%...By taking it upon himself to "clean and lubricate" the knife, he HAS accepted that knife trade.
 
RGRAY,

I did email SSS in a seperate email that I did not post here. It was my second email to him trying to figure out what was going on and he still never replied. I then emailed him and let him know about this. Sorry to not point that out.

I still haven't heard from him as of today.
 
Tony,

I am glad that you had a good transaction with SSS. And yes, we can all be friends.

The point that I think needs to be reiterated is that SSS wasn't happy with the knives not because of defect or me leaving out important information. He didn't think that he could make a profit off of them so he didn't want to meet the agreement. That, in my eyes, is a lack of what these forums are all about.

I thank everyone for their contributions to this thread and I will make my final post when I get my knives back and or the AFO.

Mike
 
i personally had a great trading experience with SSS(Sporting Specialist) also many here nad other forums have.in everyones best interest;take a deep breath and step back for a second.everyone has opinions-ok,maybe Raymond didnt do his homework,and maybe you werent clear enough to a newer member.I am probably not "established"but shouldnt being here be enough?we are all knife people,period.we should all keep to the same basic trading principles.after all- ALL we have is our reputations.ill bet hardly any of us have met face to face!;) this being said if both parties are not satisfied there should be no deal.he paid return shipping done deal.i also agree maybe he shouldnt have cleaned them without asking-but he felt it was right.as far as people saying there should be no inspection period-what would be up with this section here?ALL BLOWN UP! with people pissed like he is!not good for anyone.if theres nothing to be said have you all learned a lesson here?cant we all get along?:confused:
 
Hey All,
I recently made purchase from SSS and everything went perfectly. The response time and communication was great! I would not hesitate to deal with him again.
Regards,
Outdoorsman
 
The response time and communication was great!
Click to expand...

What is now concerning or bugging me is, SSS has sticknruns knives still, he has been e-mailed a link to this thread 2 days ago and e-mails from Sticknrun before that. All are going unanswered :confused:
 
Originally posted by sticknrun
He emailed me back and stated that only one pic came through, but "if you are offering both knives for trade I'll take a chance. Send the knives to (his address). Upon receipt of the knives I'll ship the Afo to you."
Click to expand...
I would have told this guy to go screw himself, right about there. No trust, no deal. If someone doesn't trust you for no apparent reason, the only one I can think of is that they are not worthy of trust themselves.
As it is, he owes you an AFO, since he decided to tinker around with your knives.




"I don’t see how I could sell this miniature for any more than $40"
:barf:
 
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