Bad Kershaw. Bad!

Status
Not open for further replies.
RedLynx said:
Well it really hasn;t changed, as we can all agree these are entry level knives but... you can modify it a little: Buy Kershaw, any model will be good except the ones with ducks on em."
Click to expand...

The Duck knives aren't the only ones using 3Cr now. The Starter, Lifter, and Manifold all use it, as does the Shuffle they sell at Walmart. There's also a 2 pack they sold at Walmart with the Swerve and...Freefall I think which were in 3Cr as well. It looks like Kershaw has decided to use 3Cr13 on their $20 knives, and now the 8Cr13 that USED to be used on those knives is reserved for the $30-35 Chinese knives in their lineup, like the Strobe and the Emerson collabs.
 
Their cheaper folders used to have phosphorus/copper washers, but now they've started using plastic/nylon washers as well on their folders.
 
Last edited:
ZT has become KAI's boutique brand at the expense of Kershaw IMO. ZT could release just about anything at this point and it will sell like crazy. ZT probably sells more to collectors who tend to display them and Kershaw has gone down the road of every day guy who wants an inexpensive but quality knife.
 
In again before the lock!

fetzer85 said:
As with all consumer products, it's up to you to do your own research before purchasing. People who buy these either don't know or don't care that it's low quality steel. There's not much more conversation to be had.
Click to expand...

This is a great point. I don't understand why anyone would buy anything, tools especially, without doing a little research to see if it is worth their money.
 
Nothing wrong with an O fish al Duck Commander knife.
It's for the DC fans not for the few, the proud, the whiny...hehehe
At least you can rest assured none of the "duck boys" blew through it...wonder who gets those duck calls???
 
RedLynx said:
Full disclaimer: I've never seen an episode of Duck Dynasty. I know what it is about through previews about upcoming episodes when I watch cable at my grandmother's house, when I visit her, as I don't have cable myself. I've seen wall posters for sale with the dudes' faces on them.

I have no doubt it is somewhat insulting to Southerners (I assume they're Southern, sadly, forgive me if that is incorrect) and perhaps even to Midwestern hunter/farmer types, such as some in my family.

I have no plans to ever watch the show and, like you, don't want to own anything "Duck" related either.

Having said all of that, from what I understand about the show (and I could be wrong, it is reality TV after all) the family built up a successful business from the ground up, and has made good money at it.... that's sort of admirable on its own, no? They're certainly cashing in, in what we may find slightly distasteful or unnecessary ways but, all other things aside, I hope they at least used some good old hard work to build this successful business?

I saw a preview some weeks back for some family (all I remember, sadly, is a fat, loud Southern-sounding lady) who suddenly struck oil in her/their backyard and now they've made a show about how they came into all that money. Talk about Y-I-K-E-S.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of reality shows -- there's no such thing as "reality shows", it's all scripted and produced to varying degrees. It's fake, and pretty much all of the shows are shallow trash. In an effort to make mini-storylines, events and drama, they've completely ruined the concept, not to mention the majority of documentaries (History channel, Discovery, etc.) on TV in general.

Basically every show now features the main characters in a behind-the-scenes "interview", alongside the documentary or show, where they attempt to increase the drama to ridiculous degrees by having the characters describing the events, the potential consequences, and so forth, as well as greatly increase the running time of the show by repeatedly explaining, over and over, what they are doing and such.

With that said, I did really like the first 3-4 seasons. While it featured some of the things that I mentioned, the character of Si still felt and acted genuine. They probably fed them all storylines, cues/tips, what to do, though that didn't really matter, cause Si was really funny and unique, and seemed like an awesome dude. The other characters felt somewhat fake and shallow, though. But then, during season 4, and starting with season 5, even the character of Si seemed scripted and fake.
 
Joshua J. said:
This stuff is physically incapable of hitting 60RC, it's like putting the name of a sports car on a wagon.
Yes, I'm biased with this stuff and yes, RC isn't everything, but this is just demeaning.

Kershaw, meet CRKT, SOG, and the zombie over there named Camillus. Have fun making crappy knives together.

Whether or not they have terrible products in their line-up matters to me because I can tell anyone on the street "buy Spyderco, just pick one, they're all good". I used to be able to do that with Kershaw, but I guess times change.
Click to expand...
While a little harsher than I would have put it, this is close to my sentiments.

You can tell someone buy any Benchmade or Spyderco and they'll get a decent knife whether it's entry level or not. Kershaw used to be the same way, but now it's not the case. Same thing happened to Gerber, SOG, and CRKT. It's like a rabid infection when company's decide to do it for some reason. It sucks to have that pride in a brand sink in front of your eyes too. No one wants to hear "Buy a knife from this brand, but let me make a list of which ones are crap and which ones are good" when getting a recommendation.

And I'm not talking about the 8CR knives either. It's kind of funny how there's a couple people who have publicly blasted other companies for using 420J2 before that are now here defending it when used by KAI. No matter how you spin it, 420J2/3CR is not an acceptable working/utility knife steel. Even with optimal heat treat it's crap. Yeah, KAI might make lots of money flipping $5 knives for a $20 profit, but that's admittedly duping people into a product made with inferior materials only for the sake of profit. Yes, that's the name of the game in the end, but sometimes it's not just when you get there, it's how you got there too.
 
DShiflet said:
The Duck knives aren't the only ones using 3Cr now. The Starter, Lifter, and Manifold all use it, as does the Shuffle they sell at Walmart. There's also a 2 pack they sold at Walmart with the Swerve and...Freefall I think which were in 3Cr as well. It looks like Kershaw has decided to use 3Cr13 on their $20 knives, and now the 8Cr13 that USED to be used on those knives is reserved for the $30-35 Chinese knives in their lineup, like the Strobe and the Emerson collabs.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I hadn't been into those models so I didn't check. That's kind of a shame but, I picked up several favorite cheaper ones that still use 8Cr13, some are even discontinued now so, that's lucky I guess.
 
jac_solar said:
I'm not a fan of reality shows -- there's no such thing as "reality shows", it's all scripted and produced to varying degrees. It's fake, and pretty much all of the shows are shallow trash. In an effort to make mini-storylines, events and drama, they've completely ruined the concept, not to mention the majority of documentaries (History channel, Discovery, etc.) on TV in general.

Basically every show now features the main characters in a behind-the-scenes "interview", alongside the documentary or show, where they attempt to increase the drama to ridiculous degrees by having the characters describing the events, the potential consequences, and so forth, as well as greatly increase the running time of the show by repeatedly explaining, over and over, what they are doing and such.

With that said, I did really like the first 3-4 seasons. While it featured some of the things that I mentioned, the character of Si still felt and acted genuine. They probably fed them all storylines, cues/tips, what to do, though that didn't really matter, cause Si was really funny and unique, and seemed like an awesome dude. The other characters felt somewhat fake and shallow, though. But then, during season 4, and starting with season 5, even the character of Si seemed scripted and fake.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, it's all fake, that's why I said "reality TV after all," so I totally agree with you.

Documentaries are another story though, there's still some great ones out there. Try "The Elephant in the Living Room," it was an eye-opener.
 
They are just trying to hit all price points and markets. 99% of the population probably dont even know what RC is hehe. I wouldnt buy then but some will and be happy with it. If it doesnt sell, then it gets disco'd. It aint that serious.
 
RedLynx said:
Oh yeah, it's all fake, that's why I said "reality TV after all," so I totally agree with you.

Documentaries are another story though, there's still some great ones out there. Try "The Elephant in the Living Room," it was an eye-opener.
Click to expand...

I meant documentaries and those "informative" shows on TV. If I remember correctly, Discovery used to have excellent documentaries several years ago. As in, great documentaries like David Attenborough's stuff.

Stays Sharp said:
They are just trying to hit all price points and markets. 99% of the population probably dont even know what RC is hehe. I wouldnt buy then but some will and be happy with it. If it doesnt sell, then it gets disco'd. It aint that serious.
Click to expand...

It's a new direction for Kershaw; before, their "value" stuff used to have pretty decent materials. As such, what used to be their "value" products are now more like "cheap" products.

It might indicate a change in their behavior and company goals; ie, to greatly exaggerate (Just to illustrate my point.), before, it used to be about making quality knives. Now, it's about making money.

Companies that takes steps like this for higher profits tends to keep going in that direction, focusing more and more solely on what earns them money, as opposed to striving for a balance of earning money while satisfying customers. I'm not necessarily saying that's the case with Kai.
 
Last edited:
Any company that sells anything is in it to make money, that is by definition what a business is. If you think otherwise, you must not understand basic economics. The virtue of making fantastic quality products, does not pay anyone's bills. Kershaw is indeed making products to cover all price points, no need to be upset.
 
RevDevil said:
Any company that sells anything is in it to make money, that is by definition what a business is. If you think otherwise, you must not understand basic economics. The virtue of making fantastic quality products, does not pay anyone's bills. Kershaw is indeed making products to cover all price points, no need to be upset.
Click to expand...

Huh? I explained "as opposed to striving for a balance of earning money while satisfying customers". Some companies just want to make money, some companies want to provide a good product while earning money.
 
Went of the Kershaw/KAI website to check these things out... and it looks like in addition to the 3CR13 Duck stuff, Kershaw has added "Buck Commander" logos to some of their regular models which are still in 8Cr13MoV. What I found to be concerning is that Kershaw is slowly drifting towards Gerber's lack of specificity with regards to what steel is used. For example, Kershaw "pulls a gerber" and notes that the new black shuffle has a "stainless steel blade". When I see that label, I assume the worst, cheapest steel is used (440A, 3cr13, Aus4. etc) or the company would just come out and say what the blade is.

For the record; the Freefall,Swerve, the "Ton" series budget knives,clash, and Volt still have 8cr13MoV. It is kind of sad to think that 8cr13MoV (a serviceable budget steel in my opinion) will probably be considered a "quality" option in the near future.
 
RedLynx said:
Full disclaimer: I've never seen an episode of Duck Dynasty. I know what it is about through previews about upcoming episodes when I watch cable at my grandmother's house, when I visit her, as I don't have cable myself. I've seen wall posters for sale with the dudes' faces on them.

I have no doubt it is somewhat insulting to Southerners (I assume they're Southern, sadly, forgive me if that is incorrect) and perhaps even to Midwestern hunter/farmer types, such as some in my family.

I have no plans to ever watch the show and, like you, don't want to own anything "Duck" related either.

Having said all of that, from what I understand about the show (and I could be wrong, it is reality TV after all) the family built up a successful business from the ground up, and has made good money at it.... that's sort of admirable on its own, no? They're certainly cashing in, in what we may find slightly distasteful or unnecessary ways but, all other things aside, I hope they at least used some good old hard work to build this successful business?

I saw a preview some weeks back for some family (all I remember, sadly, is a fat, loud Southern-sounding lady) who suddenly struck oil in her/their backyard and now they've made a show about how they came into all that money. Talk about Y-I-K-E-S.
Click to expand...

Basic gist of it is it's a family friendly reality show of a bunch of good ol boys having a good time and joking around and having fun. But they just so happened to be on a family that started up a very successful business and they are now trying to cash in any way they can during their 15minutes of fame with all their merchandise they are putting out. And considering they are pretty much family friendly and drama free in comparison to the kardashians or how far other reality tv shows are I have no problem with it. I haven't watched it in awhile but I have sat down and watched several back to back episodes of it and it's actually quite a good show.
 
I wanted to weigh in on this topic after having read all of the posts before mine. I just gotta ask: what's wrong with Kershaw making cheap junk to sell to people who don't care? No, that's a serious question. Bonus points if you can give an answer that doesn't center around an emotional response.

Listen, I know several people personally who buy only cheap knives, use 'em until they're dull, then they throw them away and get a new one. They know I'm a big knife guy, they have been approached by me multiple times with offers of teaching them how to sharpen, but they just don't care. Not interested. And god forbid you mention the possibility of buying a knife that has better materials. "Fifty dollahrs fer a knife? Are you high?!"

There are always going to be people out there who want or need a knife in their pocket who will NEVER spend what we spend on knives, or care even the slightest little bit about the metal the knives are made of. 8cr, 3cr, Elma-wut?!, CPM? What's that stand fer?

THEY DON'T CARE.

So, clearly Kershaw understands that, so why would they bother putting high end, or even mid grade materials into a cheap knife that's just going to get used then thrown away, most likely, or sit in a drawer when the owner doesn't bother to learn how to sharpen it?

All this talk about how the brand's going downhill, puuuuh-LEASE. Kershaw is a large corporation who makes knives. Seems like some folks here need to remember that we, the folks who snap up ZT models like it's water in the desert, AREN'T the largest segment of their customer base. I would hazard a guess that Kershaw makes a lot more money selling Leeks, Chives, Thermites, and all of its other cheap folders than it does on every single ZT model it's ever produced. EVER.

So, come on guys, let's try to see this thing objectively. Kershaw is still a fantastic knife company, and frankly, I'm GLAD they are putting these cheap knives out there, because all it will take is one guy standing there one day, and using that silly Duck Commander knife (while it's still sharp) and he'll say to himself, "You know, my birthday is coming up, and I really love this little Kershaw. I wonder what else they make...."

And then it's going to be off to the races, and we'll have another Knife Guy joining our team. :thumbup:
 
o4tg said:
Yeah, KAI might make lots of money flipping $5 knives for a $20 profit, but that's admittedly duping people into a product made with inferior materials only for the sake of profit.
Click to expand...

There is a sucker born every minute. In this day and age, if you don't do even a bit of research on a product you are buying, you deserve what you get. It isn't up to the company to only sell quality products, it is up to the consumer to decide on what their hard earned money should be spent on. In the end, you pay for what you get, finding that balance between cost and quality is up to the customer, not the company. It's a free market, and anyone is free to be dumb and "duped" with their purchasing choices.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top