My first negative experience.
I recently completed a transaction with worldwood that went south and I ended up with my 1st negative feedback.
I was the seller and here is the thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1027760-Rmd-SOLD
I apologize in advance for the length of this post - my editing skill are not there yet.
Besides, I opted for a full picture of how this transaction evolved. A few insignificant e-mail exchanges were are left out.
Here are the facts:
-I listed the knife as "never used", after I took a few pictures and visually inspected it in day light. Didn't noticed anything wrong except for what is described in the listing.
-buyer contacted me on Jan 12 asking if I wold accept a MO and if I'm ok waiting until the end of the week to get it sent.
No issue there, so I agreed.
-on Jan 17 he sent the MO. which was received on Jan 22nd.
- same day I decide to pack-up the knife with the intention of mailing in the morning. With my desk light on, I noticed some smudges on the coating. Did not noticed them when knife was inspected in day light and posted for sale. Edge looked fine to me. I could still see the factory grinding marks on it.
I contacted the seller, confirmed that I received the MO and brought to his attention the fact that the knife was listed in error "never used" when in fact it should have been described as "lightly used".
Here is my e-mail. To avoid confusion, my emails (seller) are in blue. Buyer's emails are in red.
MO received.
One thing before I sent the RMD your way.
I'm looking at it right now, and under artificial light I can see some faint smudges on the coating. Hardly noticeable, but they are there, under a certain angle. Can try to tale pics, but not sure they'll show.
I don't remember using it. Looks like it went through some cardboard at one time (I never used this particular knife myself, and this was an assumption, based on my previous experience on cutting cardboard with coated knives. Don't know how else to explain what may have caused the smudges)
Since I listed it as 'never used', you should let me know if you still want it.
As is, it should have been described as 'lightly used'.
Here is is reply (different color to avoid confusion):
Thank you very much for the honesty!
No problem I still want the knife!
I actually ordered a rmd from the swamp on january 1st this year, and since i was told the wait time would be 5-7 weeks and because i was impatient i looked on the exchange, the RMD i ordered from the swamp was tanker/black micarta so i wanted the other one to be sage/tan micarta and i figured that way id have one to use until the other shows up. Yours was perfect and at a great price so i jumped on it.... crazy thing tho i just got the RMD from the swamp today, in my hands in only 21 days! im impressed!
Thanks again for the honesty, and for waiting until i could get to the post office, i look forward to the blade!
My reply
RMD is in the mail.
You should have it by the end of the week.
Please let me know when you have it.
See attached DC#.
Few days later, on Jan 25 I received this e-mail:
Ok i just received the Knife! thank you. I got a couple questions though. did you purchase this new from the swamp or off another member? i could see the scuffs on the coating with normal room light, but this doesnt bother me, they are minimal and doesnt effect anything. but when i added artificial light to inspect the blade i noticed the tip is missing a few millimeters of coating as well and it looks like this knife has been stropped, or attempted at sharpened. the coating at the bevel is smoothed down, like all my blades i have put on a strop more than a few times, for a few hours. Its not from cutting anything, it follows the edge from tip to choil. Worse part, the edge is rougher than either of my other 2 RMDs. I looked at the edge under a microscope and its alot more jagged and rough. I know knives can vary from the factory and be a little different than one another and different people sharpen them at the swamp so the edge isnt always the exact same but this edge is pretty rough.
It's also possible you bought it as new when it was not from another member, but still a basic visual inspection would conclude its not new before you re-sold it. I wanted to spend 145 on a new RMD, that was the deal. then after you waited for my money and finally received it the description changed. I wanted new but you were kind enough to wait for me so i still went thru with the deal even though at this point i was less excited, i was still ok with your description of "lightly used and you could only see the scuffs in a certain light at an angle" . but even this is not the correct description.
there is still nothing wrong with this knife that makes me unable to use it but i cant see how going through cardboard (at one point) could of smoothed the coating from tip to choil and changed the geometry of the edge.
I dont really care about the coating, I am however concerned about the edge. The coating is for looks (well, and protection, for people who dont lube there knives) but the edge is the reason i buy knives.
I almost feel as if you pushed a sale out with false info, then tried to correct yourself after you got the money. Theres no way anyone who knows much about knives could inspect that blade in person and say its NEW and has never been used. I can see your feedback score and the amount of deals you have done and i know you must have some experience in blades and im positive if you inspected that blade before you listed it for sale you would have already known the issues.
Lightly used and stropped/sharpened seems to be the description of this blade
MY reply:
Knife was purchased on the exchange.
I have not noticed anything wrong with it at the time I took the pictures. I only noticed the scuffs under artificial light. Edge looked fine to me.
I misrepresented the knife, but not on purpose. That's why I contacted you before I shipped it.
A deal it's not completed until both parties are happy.
Send it back and I'll refund you $145.
Buyer's response:
Ok thank you for your willingness to fix the situation. I can not get to the post office except on thursdays and fridays, as you know, so it will be about a week but i will get you a DCN and everything when it goes out. If you have any unused knives from the swamp, or scrapyard knives that you would be willing to part with around the same value let me know, id much rather steel over a refund but either way is fine.
My reply - 1st request to send the knife back for full refund
xxx (name edited out), no need to thank me.
This is my bad.
Not doing this for profit. It's just a hobby.
I will send the MO as soon as I'll get the RMD back. I def. have to take close look at that blade.
Got no other blades I'm willing to part with right now.
I'll most likely re-list this one at a lower price to reflect it's condition.
Buyer:
Honestly the condition its in is still worth 145, people often pay 200 for a regular rmd to avoid the swamps wait time. the thing is i just felt lied to. but thinking about it, after sending the first MO then after i pay to ship it back, in the end i will wind up with a loss of money and time. I think ill avoid the headache and just keep it but I will take good, real, pictures showing that it has been used and if i can get my friend to loan me his microscope camera i will also record the edge damage, Hell i can also take it to a local knife shop and have him inspect the blade as new or used, record any damage, and certify it, but this will cost me. I can do this to prove that im not just making false statements and have an idea of what im talking about. I just dont see waiting a week before i can even ship the knife, then for you to receive it and inspect it, then wait for the MO, just to end up with a loss and to find out someone else gets the knife for less than i did. so i go thru the hassle and someone else gets a better deal. That would just piss me off. So ill avoid this headache and just keep it but i can still prove everything i stated about the blade is true and correct.
Never questioned the guy. What is he trying to prove exactly? What I already told him, that the knife is lightly used?
My reply - second request to send the knife back for refund.
I can tell you are not happy with this transaction, and want to keep the knife just to avoid the hassle of returning it. That's not a good reason to keep it. Before you make a final decision, I'd say sleep on it, and tomorrow let me know what you decided: keep it or return it.
I'd suggest you return it and get your money back. I am not happy with this transaction either and I'm at fault, since I listed it as new in error .
Bottom line: If I just want to sell a knife, I can do it on e-bay. Bladeforums is a great community and I only had good experiences. I intend to keep it that way.
You insinuated twice that I lied to you. It didn't go unnoticed.
Text in bold - you will see later on how the buyer reads this words as weakness on my part. He thinks I fear negative feedback which is not what I meant.
Buyer:
Hey man stuff happens. And with the price you listed the knife at its obvious your not trying to make money on them. And I have really appreciated the quik communication and your cool demeanor and Bladeforums is a great place, i agree, The thing is like i said the knife is still worth 145 so i feel as if sending it back and putting me at a loss of time and money isnt neccessary. I like the knife and can re-sharpen it and polish the edge back without any issues.
"You insinuated twice that I lied to you. It didn't go unnoticed."
my wife has no experience with knives period, except when cooking and i handed it to her without telling her a single thing and asked her if she thinks its new or used, and she said used and pointed at the edge. so if she could spot that its used i cant see how you could not, unless you recieved the knife and put it away until it was sold without ever inspecting it. you say you have other RMDs as well so i know you are aware of the edge and finish of these knives. the knife has not been abused or hurt or anything and is still fully functional, but its just not new as described.
Now, you have a perfect feedback score and have been on BF for years without any issues. I wont ruin that, i dont feel like your a bad person or anything and obviously you have done right by everyone you have dealt with so far so i dont think you picked me out the group to get over on. i think maybe the knife just wasnt inspected good enough before it was put up for sale.
I'm not sure what this guy is after: on one hand he doesn't want to return the knife, but on the other he keeps on bringing back the imperfection on the blade ads keeps on making references to my feedback, again.
Add to that the insinuation that I lied to him, and how my knife doesn't look perfect under the microscope, and how he's gonna get a microscope camera to record edge damage (???) or how he can " take it to a local knife shop and have him inspect the blade as new or used, record any damage, and certify it, but this will cost me."
My reply (at this point I am tired of being flooded with long e-mails that do nothing but beat on a dead horse)
So you chose to keep it.
That concludes this deal.
Buyer:
ok, i did follow thru with payment as i said i would so will you have a problem leaving me feedback? Im not going to mess up your feedback score and track record.
Now he attempts to twist my arm by casually mentioning how he has no intent to mess up my feedback and track record - third time he makes a reference to my feedback.
Truth is I am not comfortable leaving positive feedback to a guy that starts harnessing me via e-mail, after I informed him about the condition of the knife before I sent it to him and before I cashed the MO. I offed him twice a refund and he turned me down.
The overall transaction qualifies for neutral feedback, at best.
I decided to just move on and let it be.
Buyer:
sent an email about you leaving me feedback, havent gotten a reply or feedback. theres no reason to ignore me or treat me neagatively. I followed thru with payment as promised and would like feedback saying so. i said i would not mess your feedback rating up but if you want to just ignore me with an attitude thats a different story
Apparently fallowing through with the payment automatically qualifies the buyer for positive feedback.
Nevermind that I disagree.
Nevermind the fact that leaving feedback is not mandatory per bladeforum rules.
Nevermind that I don't take bullying/harassing emails lightly.
My reply:
Threatening with negative feedback or whatever won't take you anywhere. In the future, if you want feedback that bad, start by employing some common manners.
Besides, it's not all about feedback, you know?
This transaction is closed and there will be no more communication from me.
Feel free to do the same.
Buyer:
common manners? in the future you shouldnt lie about the condition of a knife... your the one in the wrong guy, i was decent enough not to screw over your feedback score and you wanna get ugly about it.
Another feedback reference. Guy is keep on sending the message, why I don't get it? And I am still a liar.
Soon after I got his negative feedback :
Negative improperly listed knife as new, changed description after receiveing money.
I guess all those feedback hints mentioned above gotta materialize, right?
To worldwood:
If you are not happy with the knife, why choose to keep it? Why turn me down twice on the refund offer? Why all the drama after you decide to keep the knife?
Why try and bully me into leaving positive feedback under threat of leaving negative feedback?
Why exactly did you left a negative feedback?
To the rest of you that had the patience to read my post:
What do you think of all this?
I recently completed a transaction with worldwood that went south and I ended up with my 1st negative feedback.
I was the seller and here is the thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1027760-Rmd-SOLD
I apologize in advance for the length of this post - my editing skill are not there yet.
Besides, I opted for a full picture of how this transaction evolved. A few insignificant e-mail exchanges were are left out.
Here are the facts:
-I listed the knife as "never used", after I took a few pictures and visually inspected it in day light. Didn't noticed anything wrong except for what is described in the listing.
-buyer contacted me on Jan 12 asking if I wold accept a MO and if I'm ok waiting until the end of the week to get it sent.
No issue there, so I agreed.
-on Jan 17 he sent the MO. which was received on Jan 22nd.
- same day I decide to pack-up the knife with the intention of mailing in the morning. With my desk light on, I noticed some smudges on the coating. Did not noticed them when knife was inspected in day light and posted for sale. Edge looked fine to me. I could still see the factory grinding marks on it.
I contacted the seller, confirmed that I received the MO and brought to his attention the fact that the knife was listed in error "never used" when in fact it should have been described as "lightly used".
Here is my e-mail. To avoid confusion, my emails (seller) are in blue. Buyer's emails are in red.
MO received.
One thing before I sent the RMD your way.
I'm looking at it right now, and under artificial light I can see some faint smudges on the coating. Hardly noticeable, but they are there, under a certain angle. Can try to tale pics, but not sure they'll show.
I don't remember using it. Looks like it went through some cardboard at one time (I never used this particular knife myself, and this was an assumption, based on my previous experience on cutting cardboard with coated knives. Don't know how else to explain what may have caused the smudges)
Since I listed it as 'never used', you should let me know if you still want it.
As is, it should have been described as 'lightly used'.
Here is is reply (different color to avoid confusion):
Thank you very much for the honesty!
No problem I still want the knife!
I actually ordered a rmd from the swamp on january 1st this year, and since i was told the wait time would be 5-7 weeks and because i was impatient i looked on the exchange, the RMD i ordered from the swamp was tanker/black micarta so i wanted the other one to be sage/tan micarta and i figured that way id have one to use until the other shows up. Yours was perfect and at a great price so i jumped on it.... crazy thing tho i just got the RMD from the swamp today, in my hands in only 21 days! im impressed!
Thanks again for the honesty, and for waiting until i could get to the post office, i look forward to the blade!
My reply
RMD is in the mail.
You should have it by the end of the week.
Please let me know when you have it.
See attached DC#.
Few days later, on Jan 25 I received this e-mail:
Ok i just received the Knife! thank you. I got a couple questions though. did you purchase this new from the swamp or off another member? i could see the scuffs on the coating with normal room light, but this doesnt bother me, they are minimal and doesnt effect anything. but when i added artificial light to inspect the blade i noticed the tip is missing a few millimeters of coating as well and it looks like this knife has been stropped, or attempted at sharpened. the coating at the bevel is smoothed down, like all my blades i have put on a strop more than a few times, for a few hours. Its not from cutting anything, it follows the edge from tip to choil. Worse part, the edge is rougher than either of my other 2 RMDs. I looked at the edge under a microscope and its alot more jagged and rough. I know knives can vary from the factory and be a little different than one another and different people sharpen them at the swamp so the edge isnt always the exact same but this edge is pretty rough.
It's also possible you bought it as new when it was not from another member, but still a basic visual inspection would conclude its not new before you re-sold it. I wanted to spend 145 on a new RMD, that was the deal. then after you waited for my money and finally received it the description changed. I wanted new but you were kind enough to wait for me so i still went thru with the deal even though at this point i was less excited, i was still ok with your description of "lightly used and you could only see the scuffs in a certain light at an angle" . but even this is not the correct description.
there is still nothing wrong with this knife that makes me unable to use it but i cant see how going through cardboard (at one point) could of smoothed the coating from tip to choil and changed the geometry of the edge.
I dont really care about the coating, I am however concerned about the edge. The coating is for looks (well, and protection, for people who dont lube there knives) but the edge is the reason i buy knives.
I almost feel as if you pushed a sale out with false info, then tried to correct yourself after you got the money. Theres no way anyone who knows much about knives could inspect that blade in person and say its NEW and has never been used. I can see your feedback score and the amount of deals you have done and i know you must have some experience in blades and im positive if you inspected that blade before you listed it for sale you would have already known the issues.
Lightly used and stropped/sharpened seems to be the description of this blade
MY reply:
Knife was purchased on the exchange.
I have not noticed anything wrong with it at the time I took the pictures. I only noticed the scuffs under artificial light. Edge looked fine to me.
I misrepresented the knife, but not on purpose. That's why I contacted you before I shipped it.
A deal it's not completed until both parties are happy.
Send it back and I'll refund you $145.
Buyer's response:
Ok thank you for your willingness to fix the situation. I can not get to the post office except on thursdays and fridays, as you know, so it will be about a week but i will get you a DCN and everything when it goes out. If you have any unused knives from the swamp, or scrapyard knives that you would be willing to part with around the same value let me know, id much rather steel over a refund but either way is fine.
My reply - 1st request to send the knife back for full refund
xxx (name edited out), no need to thank me.
This is my bad.
Not doing this for profit. It's just a hobby.
I will send the MO as soon as I'll get the RMD back. I def. have to take close look at that blade.
Got no other blades I'm willing to part with right now.
I'll most likely re-list this one at a lower price to reflect it's condition.
Buyer:
Honestly the condition its in is still worth 145, people often pay 200 for a regular rmd to avoid the swamps wait time. the thing is i just felt lied to. but thinking about it, after sending the first MO then after i pay to ship it back, in the end i will wind up with a loss of money and time. I think ill avoid the headache and just keep it but I will take good, real, pictures showing that it has been used and if i can get my friend to loan me his microscope camera i will also record the edge damage, Hell i can also take it to a local knife shop and have him inspect the blade as new or used, record any damage, and certify it, but this will cost me. I can do this to prove that im not just making false statements and have an idea of what im talking about. I just dont see waiting a week before i can even ship the knife, then for you to receive it and inspect it, then wait for the MO, just to end up with a loss and to find out someone else gets the knife for less than i did. so i go thru the hassle and someone else gets a better deal. That would just piss me off. So ill avoid this headache and just keep it but i can still prove everything i stated about the blade is true and correct.
Never questioned the guy. What is he trying to prove exactly? What I already told him, that the knife is lightly used?
My reply - second request to send the knife back for refund.
I can tell you are not happy with this transaction, and want to keep the knife just to avoid the hassle of returning it. That's not a good reason to keep it. Before you make a final decision, I'd say sleep on it, and tomorrow let me know what you decided: keep it or return it.
I'd suggest you return it and get your money back. I am not happy with this transaction either and I'm at fault, since I listed it as new in error .
Bottom line: If I just want to sell a knife, I can do it on e-bay. Bladeforums is a great community and I only had good experiences. I intend to keep it that way.
You insinuated twice that I lied to you. It didn't go unnoticed.
Text in bold - you will see later on how the buyer reads this words as weakness on my part. He thinks I fear negative feedback which is not what I meant.
Buyer:
Hey man stuff happens. And with the price you listed the knife at its obvious your not trying to make money on them. And I have really appreciated the quik communication and your cool demeanor and Bladeforums is a great place, i agree, The thing is like i said the knife is still worth 145 so i feel as if sending it back and putting me at a loss of time and money isnt neccessary. I like the knife and can re-sharpen it and polish the edge back without any issues.
"You insinuated twice that I lied to you. It didn't go unnoticed."
my wife has no experience with knives period, except when cooking and i handed it to her without telling her a single thing and asked her if she thinks its new or used, and she said used and pointed at the edge. so if she could spot that its used i cant see how you could not, unless you recieved the knife and put it away until it was sold without ever inspecting it. you say you have other RMDs as well so i know you are aware of the edge and finish of these knives. the knife has not been abused or hurt or anything and is still fully functional, but its just not new as described.
Now, you have a perfect feedback score and have been on BF for years without any issues. I wont ruin that, i dont feel like your a bad person or anything and obviously you have done right by everyone you have dealt with so far so i dont think you picked me out the group to get over on. i think maybe the knife just wasnt inspected good enough before it was put up for sale.
I'm not sure what this guy is after: on one hand he doesn't want to return the knife, but on the other he keeps on bringing back the imperfection on the blade ads keeps on making references to my feedback, again.
Add to that the insinuation that I lied to him, and how my knife doesn't look perfect under the microscope, and how he's gonna get a microscope camera to record edge damage (???) or how he can " take it to a local knife shop and have him inspect the blade as new or used, record any damage, and certify it, but this will cost me."
My reply (at this point I am tired of being flooded with long e-mails that do nothing but beat on a dead horse)
So you chose to keep it.
That concludes this deal.
Buyer:
ok, i did follow thru with payment as i said i would so will you have a problem leaving me feedback? Im not going to mess up your feedback score and track record.
Now he attempts to twist my arm by casually mentioning how he has no intent to mess up my feedback and track record - third time he makes a reference to my feedback.
Truth is I am not comfortable leaving positive feedback to a guy that starts harnessing me via e-mail, after I informed him about the condition of the knife before I sent it to him and before I cashed the MO. I offed him twice a refund and he turned me down.
The overall transaction qualifies for neutral feedback, at best.
I decided to just move on and let it be.
Buyer:
sent an email about you leaving me feedback, havent gotten a reply or feedback. theres no reason to ignore me or treat me neagatively. I followed thru with payment as promised and would like feedback saying so. i said i would not mess your feedback rating up but if you want to just ignore me with an attitude thats a different story
Apparently fallowing through with the payment automatically qualifies the buyer for positive feedback.
Nevermind that I disagree.
Nevermind the fact that leaving feedback is not mandatory per bladeforum rules.
Nevermind that I don't take bullying/harassing emails lightly.
My reply:
Threatening with negative feedback or whatever won't take you anywhere. In the future, if you want feedback that bad, start by employing some common manners.
Besides, it's not all about feedback, you know?
This transaction is closed and there will be no more communication from me.
Feel free to do the same.
Buyer:
common manners? in the future you shouldnt lie about the condition of a knife... your the one in the wrong guy, i was decent enough not to screw over your feedback score and you wanna get ugly about it.
Another feedback reference. Guy is keep on sending the message, why I don't get it? And I am still a liar.
Soon after I got his negative feedback :
Negative improperly listed knife as new, changed description after receiveing money.
I guess all those feedback hints mentioned above gotta materialize, right?
To worldwood:
If you are not happy with the knife, why choose to keep it? Why turn me down twice on the refund offer? Why all the drama after you decide to keep the knife?
Why try and bully me into leaving positive feedback under threat of leaving negative feedback?
Why exactly did you left a negative feedback?
To the rest of you that had the patience to read my post:
What do you think of all this?
