Bark River makes great knives. My Barkies have held up to battoning just fine. That is about as much hard use as I ever plan on doing with my fixed blades. Good luck chopping with a knife that size. If the edge is too thin, the good news is it can easily be sharpened with a thicker edge. I do really want a Fallkniven as well. Own Busse's, love them. But nothing cuts like a Barkie. I really dont think you will regret it if you stick with the Bravo 1.
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Bark River Bravo 1 - Very Torn Now.... HELP!
- Thread starter LightGuy
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Just watched the videos, the knife performed as I expected, that being quite well.
Had my Scrapyard Regulator gone through the same tests you would have seen the same warping at the edge. Initially after thinning the edge out it would roll and chip on poplar saplings. Oppositely my stock Regulator can baton through just about anything with little damage. It's all about the geometry.
The warped edge on the Bravo means it is properly sharpened to excel at cutting. I wouldn't have it any other way.
We've known for years and years now that A-2 has a tendency to snap. We've seen 1095, INFI, S-7, all get bent out of shape without breaking. A-2 doesn't seem to fair so well in that department, so that's par for the course. The Bravo actually took the weight test better than I had expected.
There is currently a run of 3V Bravo's in the works, those should fair much better (as well as having crazy wear resistance).
If there's one thing I absolutely love about Bark River knives it is that they profile their blades to cut, from the looks of it they use similar angles to what I do when thinning out my fixed blades. Again, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Had my Scrapyard Regulator gone through the same tests you would have seen the same warping at the edge. Initially after thinning the edge out it would roll and chip on poplar saplings. Oppositely my stock Regulator can baton through just about anything with little damage. It's all about the geometry.
The warped edge on the Bravo means it is properly sharpened to excel at cutting. I wouldn't have it any other way.
We've known for years and years now that A-2 has a tendency to snap. We've seen 1095, INFI, S-7, all get bent out of shape without breaking. A-2 doesn't seem to fair so well in that department, so that's par for the course. The Bravo actually took the weight test better than I had expected.
There is currently a run of 3V Bravo's in the works, those should fair much better (as well as having crazy wear resistance).
If there's one thing I absolutely love about Bark River knives it is that they profile their blades to cut, from the looks of it they use similar angles to what I do when thinning out my fixed blades. Again, I wouldn't have it any other way.
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See? Some people get it.
The idea is, you're stuck in a situation where there is no kindling and every piece of wood in the area is wet on the surface. You need to get to some dry wood.
EDIT: Wow. I just sounded like a proponent of battoning!
I'm not. If there are pieces of wood the size of the log shown in the video then there is kindling around or smaller sections that can be split for dry wood.
Exactly. :thumbup:
It's possible. I also wonder about proper technique in the examples you provided. As far as the link you provided, I think I may've had a post or two in there (I probably didn't add much).
As far as the absolutes, I'd prefer to buy based on extensive and consistent testing using a reasonable population conducted by an unbiased party. Neither has occurred with either knife. So my answer? I bought both Fallkniven and BRKT
This is very true.
It is all about blade geometry.
To the OP:
BRKT grinds knives thin. They are great cutters, but edge is not designed to take a lot of abuse. It will hold fine for batonning, if it is done right.
I have used both F1 and Bravo 1. Falk F1 has thicker edge. F1 doesn't cut as good as Bravo1, but F1 has "tougher" edge. In fact two things are related. Grind F1 thinner and you will make it to cut better, but when you will go abusing it, it will deform probably even worse than B1 in that video.
At the same time, you can get that Bravo1, re-profile the edge to more obtuse angle and it will take a lot more abuse.
Its been said so many times that geometry plays the biggest role in "toughness" of the edge and still people overlooking the obvious when question comes up.
I'm glad that BRKT have guts to make knives with such thin grinds and edges and cover them by excellent warranty. It is a lot easier to say that "Abrams Tank-knife" is covered by warranty, than that "Ferrari-knife" is covered, because many users forget about the differences and in some cases treat them the same way.
I would say that Falk F1 is more "universal" knife. After using both F1 and Bravo1, I have decided that I prefer Bravo1 for my kind of use, but I wouldn't say that one is better than another.
Here are couple of threads on the subject:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782282
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=775806
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784777
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I've seen your posts and how you did the casting with the epoxy. Very creative. You are exactly right about the grind on the B1 and they are brave to do it. Definitely some of the best cutting knives out there.
Great post :thumbup: geometry is a huge factor when looking at the difference between knives, however its often used as an 'excuse' when a knife performs poorly in a given area.
For example if a thin blade breaks during bush-craft use I would say 'maybe thats not the best task for such a knife." So many people here rush to the knifes defense going on an on about geometry, heat treat, abuse before going on to redefine 'bush-craft.'
Just because one knife is a better choice in a specific area does not mean all other knives are bad in all areas.
Also keep in mind we all have different ideas on what 'survival' is. To some it could mean their car has a flat and they can't drive out of the park. To some it could mean you 200 miles from the nearest outpost and your friend breaks his leg.
shunsui
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I never really believed this at first but I sent a few emails around to some engineering students I know who all say this is simple 101 stuff. I have no idea why some company's still make 90 degree corners on their knives.
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It's true ... they should be radiused ... shot penned, magnafluxed and xrayed also.
... but probably less than .5% have been broken.
That knife was designed in a time before LOG battoning was the norm.
Most probably don't know what 50-100B or Sharon steel is.
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In response to the OP's original question.
Knifetest.com is great entertainment IMO, and I find it interesting to see how different knives hold up in unreal world conditions. But unless testing is done under controlled conditions, I think it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Among others, I have and use a Fallkniven F1, Fallkniven A2, and a Bark River Bravo 2. I also have several other Fallkniven and Bark River knives, but I'm going to comment on the FK A2 (VG10) and BR Bravo 2 (A2 steel), because these are the 2 knives I most commonly use in "hard use" situations.
I have yet to chop through a concrete block, or baton through the casing of a nuclear missile with the assistance of a pile driver, but I have batoned wood, cut various stuff you would normally cut with a knife, and chopped some small trees, branches, roots, and brush with both knives.
Both knives performed admirably and I have confidence in the quality of product from both of these manufactures.
After some hard use both steels require a freshening of the edge on a sharpener, but I have yet to experienced a serious chip, tip breakage, or other failure with either knife.
Based solely on my personal experience, I would say you can buy either the FK F1 or the BR Bravo 1 with confidence that either will serve you well in the real world.
Kevin
Knifetest.com is great entertainment IMO, and I find it interesting to see how different knives hold up in unreal world conditions. But unless testing is done under controlled conditions, I think it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Among others, I have and use a Fallkniven F1, Fallkniven A2, and a Bark River Bravo 2. I also have several other Fallkniven and Bark River knives, but I'm going to comment on the FK A2 (VG10) and BR Bravo 2 (A2 steel), because these are the 2 knives I most commonly use in "hard use" situations.
I have yet to chop through a concrete block, or baton through the casing of a nuclear missile with the assistance of a pile driver, but I have batoned wood, cut various stuff you would normally cut with a knife, and chopped some small trees, branches, roots, and brush with both knives.
Both knives performed admirably and I have confidence in the quality of product from both of these manufactures.
After some hard use both steels require a freshening of the edge on a sharpener, but I have yet to experienced a serious chip, tip breakage, or other failure with either knife.
Based solely on my personal experience, I would say you can buy either the FK F1 or the BR Bravo 1 with confidence that either will serve you well in the real world.
Kevin
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+1 :thumbup: Just finished the Noss's Destruction test. I wouldn't let that madness stop me from buying and enjoying a BR Bravo 1
LightGuy
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Thanks for all the replies and info!! You have convinced me to keep the pre-order on my awesome A2 carbon steel Bravo 1 and not look back! I'm really looking forward to this knife. I'm getting the rampless A2 version with black matte micarta handles...going to be nice...
It will complete the 4" void in my fixed blades, consisting of a 6" Busse Boss Jack (awesome), and a 3.25" Busse SAR-3 (also awesome).
Who knows, maybe one day I'll add the highly acclaimed F1 to my small fixed blade suite as well..
Thanks again!
It will complete the 4" void in my fixed blades, consisting of a 6" Busse Boss Jack (awesome), and a 3.25" Busse SAR-3 (also awesome).
Who knows, maybe one day I'll add the highly acclaimed F1 to my small fixed blade suite as well..
Thanks again!
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My Bravo 1 has been a little bit of a disappointment for me. The waxed polished micarta handle is slick. It slides around when wearing gloves. I have tried to strip the wax off but it still need more work. I am still trying for figure out what the thumb ramp is really for other than throwing sparks. I have used it side by side with my S1. I was batonning as well as some basic carving. I nicked up the blade from carving...it hit some knots and put some small micro chips in it. I also noticed some rolling...I am tremendously disappointed with it compared to the other knives that I have subject to the same test. I try to keep it clean and dry I have wiped some oil on but still got some surface rust. This knife isnt very cheap either but I do love the grind for sharpening convex is easy...I was able to get the roll and micro chips out but still was disappointed how this was merely from carving to make a wooden spoon...I got the micro chips again along with some more rolling..I dont really trust this blade like many of my others. I check all my blades with a loupe so I can gauge what they can take. THe Bravo 1 has left me disappointed. Maybe it is a bad one but still...for the money and the rep. I was bummed out!
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That pic was Nutnfancy's, and he knows how to baton, if anyone does. He also has used previous/replacments to that knife and never had that problem. From memory the Spyderco bushcraft has a similar looking tang, and that is not a dis-similar style of knife.
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My B1 sees less action than my Aurora which is a much thinner knife. The Aurora will carve wood all day and still shave hair no problem.
On the battoning front - you've got to be very VERY careful to keep the handle above or level with the tip of the blade. Fail to do this and you get what Nutnfancy got - watch his vids more and you see he does this a lot.
My Recon Scout has gone through gnarly Australian hard wood with no problems. :thumbup:
Not sure why you'd want to try this with a 4" blade though other than to make kindling which is EXACTLY what I do with my Aurora.
On the battoning front - you've got to be very VERY careful to keep the handle above or level with the tip of the blade. Fail to do this and you get what Nutnfancy got - watch his vids more and you see he does this a lot.
My Recon Scout has gone through gnarly Australian hard wood with no problems. :thumbup:
Not sure why you'd want to try this with a 4" blade though other than to make kindling which is EXACTLY what I do with my Aurora.
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I agree that the advantages of thumb the ramps are questionable. My bravo 2 doesn't even throw good sparks off the ramp, but the spine is good. Mike Stewart says he wouldn't put the ramp on the Bravo series if it were strictly up to him, it is there at the request of the RECON folks.
I was getting some micro chipping and edge rolling on my Bravo 2 under similar circumstances. I have noticed that it has stopped doing it now that I have sharpened it several times.
I actually notice this on most of my knives, the edges seem to toughen up after several sharpenings to get past the factory grind and into some fresh steel. Hopefully you may see the same.
Kevin
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That's a "10 / 4" :thumbup: I've read that so many times. That you get into better and tougher steel after a bit of stock removal (sharpenings).
Yup... he knows how to baton about as well as he knows what axe to use to cut some wood with.... then do a huge review of why axes suck...
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The thumb ramp is just there to look cool, promote the knife and company. A group of Marines who had never used a knife with a thumb ramp would not think up the design of one all of a sudden to use for notching - it's just a ridiculous notion. I think the reverse would of actually happened; if the top choice in testing would have had a ramp, they would ask for it to be taken off. Unless they didn't know what they were doing.
It worked like a charm though, before the Bravo 1 I had never seen, heard, or read of a Bark River anything.
It worked like a charm though, before the Bravo 1 I had never seen, heard, or read of a Bark River anything.
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