Bark River- who’s fault?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jonah Shorter said:
Called bark river today and explained the issue to them, and how I thought it could be a HT issue. They did not offer to replace my knife, and they said it was likely ground too thin. They said some of the same kind around the same time had issues as well because of someone new on the grinder. They told me to send it in so they could thicken the edge up to make it stronger. That is last thing I wanted to do. I don’t want to lose my blade height, and I don’t trust them on that grinder especially considering the grind that came on this knife. Plus I could do edge work myself for free. I mentioned the HT once or twice again but they were set on it being the grind— which I do believe it could be, but idk if I’ve ruled out HT either. Thickening the edge up could cure the rippling problem even if the steel is bad IMO. Even if the steel is junk as long as you make it thicker and thicker it’ll eventually hold up so who knows. I guess if it holds a decent edge after I rework it then it’ll be alright. Bottom line the guy I talked to was polite and willing to help, but they did not replace the knife and I’m not fully convinced it’s not HT or something else. I’ll do the edge work myself and see if it helps.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's interesting how Bark River and seemingly Mike Stewart himself is insistent that it is impossible for them to burn an edge, referencing Larin, he told me that he doesn't care what the scientists say, he's been making knives for decades so he couldn't possibly be wrong. Seriously the more I interact with the man, the less I want to buy from his brand, even though the knives directly appeal to me in both form and function. I said that you can never 100% rule out a burned edge on a belt grinder and his response was that they cool the blades with water and have experts on the grinder. Yet in pictures from their shop you routinely see sparks flying off the knives being ground, personally when I grind knives, if I see even singular sparks flying, that tells me the edge is getting very hot and to take a pause, I find it highly unlikely that they've never burnt an edge like Mike Stewart was trying to tell me.
 
shane45-1911 said:
That is huge. I would be more adamant about getting your knife replaced, then fixed (not that it would happen). No way they (or anyone) can fix that without you ending up with a thick fillet-knife shape of a blade. :(
Click to expand...
I feel for the op, good they are willing to do something....very bad they refuse to replace the knife. i kinda want to see how they would thicken up the edge..when I read what op wrote my first thought was filet knife too.....or just some grinding down and still some of the ripples left in blade from what they didn't remove.

if they did that and sent it back..it says it all......not that i want the op to suffer anymore than he has already..but id be very interested to see what they do and send back.....
 
Gil P. said:
What do you think about this?
Is it morally wrong to buy things from a company who's owner is immoral? I think we all do it everyday. We buy clothes made by exploited children, beef from company's who mistreat their cows, eggs from chickens who are mistreated horribly... the list goes on.
Click to expand...
You’ve heard of voting with your dollar right?
If you need grid electricity, and you live in a location that’s serviced by PG&E, a company that has been found criminally negligent, you probably need to suck it up and “support” an “evil” company.
On the other hand, where you have good alternative choices, and you can choose who to support, why CHOOSE to support a company that has been exposed taking advantage of people? There are SO MANY comparable knives out there it’s ridiculous - especially because, from what I’ve read here, these BRK knives aren’t even very good. Certainly not world class like lots of the stuff discussed on this forum.

Also since you brought up meat - this is another area where I vote with my $$$. I’m fortunate to live in an area where I can find humane certified meats/eggs at most grocery stores and even a few local restaurants. It’s a little inconvenient, but I choose to limit my meat consumption to that which I believe likely had a humane life and death.

Do what you can. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 
I sorta came in on the middle of this. I watched the video in the first post. I wouldn't expect denting/rippling like that for chopping wood in the size you referenced. I might expect it if you were chopping unsupported small dead branches like limbing an old dead fork from a tree. By small, I mean less than 1/2" diameter and a fair bit of movement and springyness when they are hit. Can you get a measurement of the edge/grind thickness at the top of the dents/ripples?
 
I
me2 said:
I sorta came in on the middle of this. I watched the video in the first post. I wouldn't expect denting/rippling like that for chopping wood in the size you referenced. I might expect it if you were chopping unsupported small dead branches like limbing an old dead fork from a tree. By small, I mean less than 1/2" diameter and a fair bit of movement and springyness when they are hit. Can you get a measurement of the edge/grind thickness at the top of the dents/ripples?
Click to expand...
I have no way of measuring the thickness but I ran the file over it and it scuffed it up a little but I didn’t want to get too carried away with it.
 
I thought maybe with the kind of damage you had, the steel might be soft enough you could file into the edge and get the file to bite and maybe even repair it without having to go to a grinder.
 
J Jonah Shorter Apologies if I missed it, but did you ever get a response from BR?

You could fix it yourself. I'd say get a DMT XC to start and move up in grit until you're satisfied with the finish. The ripples will come out quickly on the XC and then you'll have a good, usable knife.
 
Gil P. said:
J Jonah Shorter Apologies if I missed it, but did you ever get a response from BR?

You could fix it yourself. I'd say get a DMT XC to start and move up in grit until you're satisfied with the finish. The ripples will come out quickly on the XC and then you'll have a good, usable knife.
Click to expand...
You did indeed miss it. Go read.

BRK will not replace a knife they admitted to screwing up, a long with other knives around that time (I wonder if they contacted those customers about selling them faulty knives). They offered to turn the knife into a fat fillet knife and the OP refused, will fix it himself.

J Jonah Shorter I understand if you don't want to push the issue but I would have been adamant about a replacement, especially after they admitted to screwing the blade up. No doubt the HT is screwed from their over grinding, so yes it is a HT issue, but not from the Heat treater's oven.

Shame on anyone for defending this company.
 
kafolarbear said:
Yet in pictures from their shop you routinely see sparks flying off the knives being ground, personally when I grind knives, if I see even singular sparks flying, that tells me the edge is getting very hot and to take a pause,
Click to expand...

Sparks are not necessarily indicitave for an overheated workpiece. They result from the rapid oxidation (burning) of the tiny steel pieces being removed by the grinder and flying off the workpiece. You'll get sparks flying off a cold workpiece as well.
 
hank_rearden said:
If the blade warps, then it wasn't designed for chopping.
Specifications:
Knife TypeFixed BladeBlade StyleStraight Back
BrandBark RiverBlade EdgePlain
Product NameEdwin Forrest BowieBlade GrindFlat
Model #08-315M-NCBlade FinishSatin
Overall Length17.00"Handle MaterialCanvas Micarta
Blade Length12.5"Handle ColorNatural
Handle Length4.75"Sheath MaterialLeather
Cutting Edge12.00"Sheath ColorBrown
Blade Thickness0.18"Weight18.6 oz
Blade MaterialA-2 Tool SteelOriginUSA
Blade Hardness60 HRCDesignerBark River
Click to expand...
hank_rearden said:
The blade length, thickness, hardness, and grind tell me it's a delicate blade. I don't think it's good for a lot of chopping work.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm, meanwhile a 10.375" flat ground 0.19" thick slab of 1095 at 55-57 hrc is revered by many as a chopping champ with a lifetime warranty & little warping at all... (Junglas)

12" flat ground 1095 machetes by Ontario come in as thin at 0.13", albeit hrc is softer, (55 or so), but still chop fine, little issues on 1-2" branches...

Zoe Christ Scout is also listed as 9.6" long, 0.19" thick, A2 around 60 hrc, and is a bit of a "do it all" type of knife...

Now, I'm not saying that the BRK EF Bowie is designed to be a great "chopper", not at all, but I am arguing that the length (12"+), at 0.18" thick, w/ 60 hrc flat ground A2 steel, all say absolutely nothing about it not being able to chop 1- 2" limbs. Certainly, all those variables combined, it shouldn't be bending the way it has as shown in the video. Shoot, my 0.1" thick, 1070@50 hrc tramontina machete chops better without as much warping. So if in fact there was no "abuse" as the op stated, just simple chopping on small limbs, and minimal torquing to dislodge the blade, my guess is BRK messed up the heat treat, (which apparently they admitted to messing it up), and that A2 is not touching 60 hrc as claimed. Which would come as no surprise considering the amount of complaints that have sprung up over the years regarding their brand, particularly regarding the quality of their steel...

That's my 2 cents on the matter fwiw.
 
Only BRK I have left is a gunny in A2 I’ve had over 15 years. Nice little knife and I’ve beat the brakes off it. Don’t use it anymore but am keeping it to give to my son for his first camp knife. I’ve never been burned by BRKs but haven’t been intrigued by them for over a decade.

I wouldn’t be afraid of buying one but would definitely steer someone to spend a little more on a CPK or TRC.
 
I received my 2 BRK's today. Looking them over, there two really nice pieces. The real test will be when I put them to use. I now own three BRK's, all are top notch fit and finish. I'm not disputing that Mike isn't a bad guy, but I'm not agreeing with it either. So far I've gotten what I've expected for my cash. I've no dealings with the man so I won't judge him. My opinion, however, in no way invalidates those who have had a negative experience. As of now, I'll continue to purchase BRK's.
 
Kiteman72 said:
Lots of better choices out there for the same or less money
Click to expand...
I have Ontario SP-53, got it for 70-80€ here in Europe (so I guess it's cheaper in USA) and never had issues with it...
shane45-1911 said:
A true 60 HRC in A2 shouldn't bend or roll. If anything, I would expect chipping. There is something not right about the HT of this knife, by the sounds of things.
Click to expand...
It's a feature, BR left it soft on purpose to gain more toughness 🤣


Joking aside, the more expensive the knives the stingier the company... Bark River and Rockstead are becoming examples of bad customer service...with Fallkniven approaching and Cold Steel really closing in...
 
T.J. H said:
I received my 2 BRK's today. Looking them over, there two really nice pieces. The real test will be when I put them to use. I now own three BRK's, all are top notch fit and finish. I'm not disputing that Mike isn't a bad guy, but I'm not agreeing with it either. So far I've gotten what I've expected for my cash. I've no dealings with the man so I won't judge him. My opinion, however, in no way invalidates those who have had a negative experience. As of now, I'll continue to purchase BRK's.
Click to expand...
What??? You Piece of garbage, how dare you have a good experience and enjoy knives the blade forums have declared to be worthless garbage!???
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top