Bark River- who’s fault?

[jeepin]

I have Ontario SP-53, got it for 70-80€ here in Europe (so I guess it's cheaper in USA) and never had issues with it...

It's a feature, BR left it soft on purpose to gain more toughness


Joking aside, the more expensive the knives the stingier the company... Bark River and Rockstead are becoming examples of bad customer service...with Fallkniven approaching and Cold Steel really closing in...

Fallkniven isn’t approaching, it’s already there.

 

[Alone]

I received my 2 BRK's today. Looking them over, there two really nice pieces. The real test will be when I put them to use. I now own three BRK's, all are top notch fit and finish. I'm not disputing that Mike isn't a bad guy, but I'm not agreeing with it either. So far I've gotten what I've expected for my cash. I've no dealings with the man so I won't judge him. My opinion, however, in no way invalidates those who have had a negative experience. As of now, I'll continue to purchase BRK's.

Crusader?

 

[LostCause]

Fallkniven isn’t approaching, it’s already there.

I guess they decided to become Failkniven...
Cold Steel is already Sold Steel...

Bark River could be what? Dork River?


All jokes aside, I was deeply saddenened to see older thread on here where Perrin told his customer to go and buy a Busse or TOPS because he doesn't want his business... and all the guy wanted was ESEE to put a new coating on his knife...
I instantly wished to snap my ESEE in half, ask for new one and then sell it.

Good customer service goes a long way, but so does the bad one.
When I see customer service just grinding out a knife with messed up HT or founder of company telling his customer to buy another brand... - I won't buy those products.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to spend their own money as they want so I have 0 issues with people who still buy that. I'm just voting with my wallet and my vote will go to companies that will value me as their customer.

 

[kafolarbear]

I guess they decided to become Failkniven...
Cold Steel is already Sold Steel...

Bark River could be what? Dork River?


All jokes aside, I was deeply saddenened to see older thread on here where Perrin told his customer to go and buy a Busse or TOPS because he doesn't want his business... and all the guy wanted was ESEE to put a new coating on his knife...
I instantly wished to snap my ESEE in half, ask for new one and then sell it.

Good customer service goes a long way, but so does the bad one.
When I see customer service just grinding out a knife with messed up HT or founder of company telling his customer to buy another brand... - I won't buy those products.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to spend their own money as they want so I have 0 issues with people who still buy that. I'm just voting with my wallet and my vote will go to companies that will value me as their customer.

This is the first I've heard of such shit head behavior from the guys at Esee. By all accounts, they're stand up guys and even in comment sections of negative YouTube reviews of their knives they thank the reviewers and explain why they made certain design choices. It is true that as far as knife maker go, there are a lot of assholes and the amount of genuinely good guys seem to be dwindling fast as more makers are "exposed" as being complete tools, no pun intended.

 

[LostCause]

This is the first I've heard of such shit head behavior from the guys at Esee. By all accounts, they're stand up guys and even in comment sections of negative YouTube reviews of their knives they than the reviewers and explain why they made certain design choices. It is true that as far as knife maker go, there are a lot of assholes and the amount of genuinely good guys seem to be dwindling fast as more makes are "exposed" as being complete tools.

Post in thread 'Esee lost a customer today' https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/esee-lost-a-customer-today.1419592/post-16367545


This entire thread is basically guy asking for new coating and ESEE mocking him... when the guy could just be an ass to them instead and snap the damn thing in half to ask for a new one.

I also saw a lot of proof of ESEE being good guys, but when I see founder of the company advising his customer to buy from competitors - I'll be sure to follow his advice and do so.

As far as Bark River goes... never had one, wanted one and then saw them mixing up steels...
Then I wanted one again after DBK guys spoke so highly of them... and then I see this... and quick googling tells me there's more. So, no, I won't gamble with 300€ and buy from such company.

 

[Alone]

Post in thread 'Esee lost a customer today' https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/esee-lost-a-customer-today.1419592/post-16367545


This entire thread is basically guy asking for new coating and ESEE mocking him... when the guy could just be an ass to them instead and snap the damn thing in half to ask for a new one.

I also saw a lot of proof of ESEE being good guys, but when I see founder of the company advising his customer to buy from competitors - I'll be sure to follow his advice and do so.

As far as Bark River goes... never had one, wanted one and then saw them mixing up steels...
Then I wanted one again after DBK guys spoke so highly of them... and then I see this... and quick googling tells me there's more. So, no, I won't gamble with 300€ and buy from such company.

I'm on the fence with this ^^^ one. Anyone who uses their knives HARD knows that coatings are fleeting at best...and it appears that ESEE specifically states that coatings are considered "normal wear & tear" and are not covered. (*I think most Manufacturers would agree) Beyond that, and in my very humble experience, ESEE coatings hold-up with some of the best of 'em. Sure, the user in question could snap his ESEE-3 in half and quite easily request another. However, I doubt the coating on the new one would impress him any more than the coating on his last. (*As a sidenote, my ESEE-5s have been absolutely flawless. In my very humble opinion, if you're looking for a blade that won't rust without a little "love and care" every once in awhile, a 1095 blade is definitely not the best choice)

I ain't completely aroused when it comes to "warranties", as even the best don't mean much when you're out in the middle of nowhere and your sh!+ fails. However, it is very comforting to know that your blade will be repaired or replaced when you get back to civilization. And, as far as I know, ESEE is one of the Kings when it comes to that kinda' thing. (*As a side note, I've never had that issue. My very limited knife "failures" have been minimal to moderate at best...and the tool was still very useable while I was out in the "middle of nowhere")


I live in South Texas, where the wood is VERY HARD and unforgiving. (*Oak, Mesquite, Ligustrum, China Berry, etc.) I've had warranty issues with TOPS, Barkies, and Busses, and ALL have proven to be nearly painless. All Companies involved have made good on their knives with ZERO hassles or inquisitions.


At the end of the day, I'll continue to beat on my trusted TOPS, Beckers, Busses...and yes, even my Barkies....with ZERO concerns or worries. Hell, I have two TOPS 107Es and a coupla' Bark River "Trakkers" that have been beaten more than any knives could ever deserve. NONE OF THEM has so much as winced at anything I have thrown at 'em.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[LostCause]

I'm on the fence with this ^^^ one. Anyone who uses their knives HARD knows that coatings are fleeting at best...and it appears that ESEE specifically states that coatings are considered "normal wear & tear" and are not covered. (*I think most Manufacturers would agree) Beyond that, and in my very humble experience, ESEE coatings hold-up with some of the best of 'em. Sure, the user in question could snap his ESEE-3 in half and quite easily request another. However, I doubt the coating on the new one would impress him any more than the coating on his last. (*As a sidenote, my ESEE-5s have been absolutely flawless. In my very humble opinion, if you're looking for a blade that won't rust without a little "love and care" every once in awhile, a 1095 blade is definitely not the best choice)

I ain't completely aroused when it comes to "warranties", as even the best don't mean much when you're out in the middle of nowhere and your sh!+ fails. However, it is very comforting to know that your blade will be repaired or replaced when you get back to civilization. And, as far as I know, ESEE is one of the Kings when it comes to that kinda' thing. (*As a side note, I've never had that issue. My very limited knife "failures" have been minimal to moderate at best...and the tool was still very useable while I was out in the "middle of nowhere")


I live in South Texas, where the wood is VERY HARD and unforgiving. (*Oak, Mesquite, Ligustrum, China Berry, etc.) I've had warranty issues with TOPS, Barkies, and Busses, and ALL have proven to be nearly painless. All Companies involved have made good on their knives with ZERO hassles or inquisitions.


At the end of the day, I'll continue to beat on my trusted TOPS, Beckers, Busses...and yes, even my Barkies....with ZERO concerns or worries. Hell, I have two TOPS 107Es and a coupla' Bark River "Trakkers" that have been beaten more than any knives could ever deserve. NONE OF THEM has so much as winced at anything I have thrown at 'em.

Your mileage may vary.

Coatings on my knives are messed up too and nobody can expect a knife coating to last as long as the knife.
I personally use ESEE in 1095 as EDC, because I don't really care if it happens that my knife does rust a little.

But, they could at least be polite to the guy. They could just say "No". Yet they went out of their way in insisting he lied to them, and basically making fun of him. To culminate with company founder coming to online forum and saying: "Buy from our competitors"

I had 0 problems with my ESEE knife, but it's nice to know that if I ever do need something - I have to snap it in half. And regardless of that, I'll take their advice and buy from someone else, because if you see your customers as valuable - you won't treat them like that.

 

[Alone]

Coatings on my knives are messed up too and nobody can expect a knife coating to last as long as the knife.
I personally use ESEE in 1095 as EDC, because I don't really care if it happens that my knife does rust a little.

But, they could at least be polite to the guy. They could just say "No". Yet they went out of their way in insisting he lied to them, and basically making fun of him. To culminate with company founder coming to online forum and saying: "Buy from our competitors"

I had 0 problems with my ESEE knife, but it's nice to know that if I ever do need something - I have to snap it in half. And regardless of that, I'll take their advice and buy from someone else, because if you see your customers as valuable - you won't treat them like that.

Yeah, from the little I read, it definitely seemed like their "Customer Service" skills were a bit lacking. It's a damned shame too, as I think most have a great deal of respect for ESEE. Oh well, I reckon that, like blade coatings, customer service skills are also a bit fleeting. It is what it is.

However, as some have mentioned, all of us have the luxury of voting with our wallets. With all the wonderful options available to us these days, I reckon customer service and QA/QC will prove to be the hills that many Manufactures opt to live or die on.

 

[LostCause]

Yeah, from the little I read, it definitely seemed like their "Customer Service" skills were a bit lacking. It's a damned shame too, as I think most have a great deal of respect for ESEE. Oh well, I reckon that, like blade coatings, customer service skills are also a bit fleeting. It is what it is.

However, as some have mentioned, all of us have the luxury of voting with our wallets. With all the wonderful options available to us these days, I reckon customer service and QA/QC will prove to be the hills that many Manufactures opt to live or die on.

Yep, nice word doesn't cost you anything. Hopefully some manufacturers will see this and use rudeness from other companies to their own advantage, by that I mean - as being a good example of good customer service.

 

[Hawk45]

All jokes aside, I was deeply saddenened to see older thread on here where Perrin told his customer to go and buy a Busse or TOPS.

So much for having a bad day back in 2015.

 

[craytab]

All jokes aside, I was deeply saddenened to see older thread on here where Perrin told his customer to go and buy a Busse or TOPS because he doesn't want his business... and all the guy wanted was ESEE to put a new coating on his knife...
I instantly wished to snap my ESEE in half, ask for new one and then sell it.

Good customer service goes a long way, but so does the bad one.
When I see customer service just grinding out a knife with messed up HT or founder of company telling his customer to buy another brand... - I won't buy those products.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to spend their own money as they want so I have 0 issues with people who still buy that. I'm just voting with my wallet and my vote will go to companies that will value me as their customer.

Esee is well known for being unapologetically blunt and honest, maybe even snarky and rude. And they don't care if it hurts anyone's feelings. They don't need customers who get upset over such things. I mean, coating wear? Get out with that noise...

Mike Stewart on the other hand is a lying, cheating snake who will knowingly send out bad knives and then not fix the problems. Not to mention all the criminal activity.

I'll take blunt honest snark any day.

 

[lambertiana]

I had a mini Canadian do the same thing with simple whittling. After hearing mike Stewart talk about how good the design was for whittling I was surprised to say the least. Sent it back for warranty repair and ended up going down the rabbit hole of dealing with a very childish mike Stewart and I also got to interact with one of his former vendors who had been stiffed by mike Stewart and wouldn’t deal with him any more. Needless to say I am no longer a customer of BRKT.

 

[LostCause]

So much for having a bad day back in 2015.

It seems that he had plenty of bad days unfortunately.

Some customers are just stupid, I get that. They'll throw a knife that's not meant to be thrown, they'll buy plain carbon steel and complain about rust... and so on.

But still, you didn't give them knife for free. They paid for it. They didn't give you money for nothing either, that's business. Refusing warranty claim while explaining why, and pointing on that being written in warranty is the way to go.

But being rude to a customer, especially the one who is kind enough to tell you what happened and asking for new coating instead of just snapping it and asking for a new knife... yeah that's too much.

Esee is well known for being unapologetically blunt and honest, maybe even snarky and rude. And they don't care if it hurts anyone's feelings. They don't need customers who get upset over such things. I mean, coating wear? Get out with that noise...

This is good to know, if I ever have a problem with my ESEE, I'll just sledge hammer it before even contacting them just so they take me seriously.

Mike Stewart on the other hand is a lying, cheating snake who will knowingly send out bad knives and then not fix the problems. Not to mention all the criminal activity.

Yeah, I get that, the guy probably has some mental issues too. Definitely not someone you want to purchase from.

I'll take blunt honest snark any day.

I agree with that, but I'd prefer neither of those. I mean, it can't be that hard not to tell your customers to go and buy from competitors. Like, come on... LOL

 

[lambertiana]

Classic Mike Stewart : asked a 10 000 $ deposit from Evans to manufacture the Companions Gen2. Took the money, sat on it and made nothing for over a year. Lots of unanswered mails and calls, false promises, excuses, classic scammer tactics, Evans told the whole story here. While he got his money back in the end, the second run of Companions was delayed by two years. And the deposit was financed by GoFundMe... Some people asked a refund, some stuck to their (pre-paid) orders. The Companions were finally made by Metallinus Synergy of Escanaba. The whole ordeal was an absolute shit show. It's all on the Evans Knife & Tool forum (the General Update threads). I can't even consider using one of my Bark River knives now, they only remind me of MS's disgusting behaviour.

This is similar to what Stewart did about 20 years ago to some who used to be on the forum (Snarlslayer was his handle IIRC). He ordered a run of Kepharts and paid up front for around 150 knives. Then Stewart decided that he didn’t like snarlslayer’s marketing plan and pulled the plug. Snarlslayer asked for his money back and Stewart told him he would have to wait until the knives were made and sold to someone else before Snarlslayer would get his refund. I have the details in emails from Snarlslayer.

 

[craytab]

This is good to know, if I ever have a problem with my ESEE, I'll just sledge hammer it before even contacting them just so they take me seriously.

They'll take you seriously if you have an actual problem.

I agree with that, but I'd prefer neither of those. I mean, it can't be that hard not to tell your customers to go and buy from competitors. Like, come on... LOL

They are serious though. It's refreshing honesty.

I've heard them say plenty of times that they don't want idiots to buy their knives. Go buy someone else's product if you can't figure out that coating wear isn't a warranty issue. Sorry, but seriously.

 

[craytab]

This is similar to what Stewart did about 20 years ago to some who used to be on the forum (Snarlslayer was his handle IIRC). He ordered a run of Kepharts and paid up front for around 150 knives. Then Stewart decided that he didn’t like snarlslayer’s marketing plan and pulled the plug. Snarlslayer asked for his money back and Stewart told him he would have to wait until the knives were made and sold to someone else before Snarlslayer would get his refund. I have the details in emails from Snarlslayer.

I believe it is all linked in this thread. That is the kind of snake he is.

 

[LostCause]

They'll take you seriously if you have an actual problem.


They are serious though. It's refreshing honesty.

I've heard them say plenty of times that they don't want idiots to buy their knives. Go buy someone else's product if you can't figure out that coating wear isn't a warranty issue. Sorry, but seriously.

As I said, my coatings are messed up and that's to be excpected, but even if someone didn't expect it that doesn't give you right to call him an idiot and make fun of him, especially since that guy tried to be fair with them. Sorry but that makes him an asshole in my book.

They want to cherry pick customers? OK, I guess they are doing too well then. I know a lot of people wishing someone gave their knives a chance, but hey.

I'm not buying knives to argue, or want to guess what will the owner of the company will take seriously and if he'll make fun out of me or not.

So - real note to anyone wanting to do any warranty stuff with their ESEE - obliterate that thing with sledgehammer if it's not in 2 or more pieces already, and just get a new one. That's the message I got.
It is kinda shitty move... but that's what they get for being rude and unapologetic towards nice customers...

As far as Bark River goes... I guess just don't ever do any kind of business with Mike Stewart...

 

[craytab]

As I said, my coatings are messed up and that's to be excpected, but even if someone didn't expect it that doesn't give you right to call him an idiot and make fun of him, especially since that guy tried to be fair with them. Sorry but that makes him an asshole in my book.

They want to cherry pick customers? OK, I guess they are doing too well then. I know a lot of people wishing someone gave their knives a chance, but hey.

I'm not buying knives to argue, or want to guess what will the owner of the company will take seriously and if he'll make fun out of me or not.

So - real note to anyone wanting to do any warranty stuff with their ESEE - obliterate that thing with sledgehammer if it's not in 2 or more pieces already, and just get a new one. That's the message I got.
It is kinda shitty move... but that's what they get for being rude and unapologetic towards nice customers...

As far as Bark River goes... I guess just don't ever do any kind of business with Mike Stewart...

Yep, Esee isn't for everyone.

 

[herisson]

I believe it is all linked in this thread. That is the kind of snake he is.

Don't be mean to snakes. The herpetologists are upset.

 

[hank_rearden]

Seems I offended a number of makers/dealers/owners with my post. I still think the knife's configuration is at the delicate side. Of course, you can make a real beater costing less than $17 out of thinner stock, of softer steel and temper, and that knife will be fine. Serious damage can be fixed with a grinder or even by pounding with a hammer against and anvil. But apply the same treatment to a $200+ knife? Nah.