Bark River- who’s fault?

[Triton]

Oh I know about the past here... And thank you for the reminder, the purge here is alive and well.

...and why do you think that is? Just a bunch of internet bullies?

 

[Chris_Texas]

Except all the many many knives that have come out of his shop, that are in fact bad.

Look, the hardcore barkites are like a cult, it is a mentality MS has developed over the decades. Classic us vs them. Brilliant marketing. Nothing he can do is wrong in the eyes of the devout. The reason you don't see many of them around bladeforums these days is because we have been shutting down their hero worship nonsense for years, using facts, reason, science, and knowledge gained through experience. Mike Stewart doesn't do well with those sort of things so his gang doesn't do well here...

I hate to wade into this, but Bark River sells many hundreds of knives every year. Maybe even thousands. I own at least a half dozen myself. None have had any issues so far. None. I am going to try and take out my new Michigan Bowie to beat on later today, and I will do so after learning in this thread that it is likely to fail the simplest tasks. None the less I will hazard the challenge..

Somehow, despite selling hundreds of blades per year, including many made for other companies, they have not only remained in business, but their products sell out quickly. And yet here, on these forums, they are the worst of the worst and lowest of the low. Deliberately mislabeling steels and screwing up grinds. Here's a thought for those who believe this: steel is cheap, labor is expensive. No one would put a Bark River finish on an Aus6 blade (as someone suggested). That would be idiotic.

I am entirely willing to accept that Mike Stewart might be shady as hell. My own customer service experience was a little disappointing. But they OBVIOUSLY make good stuff most of the time.

 

[craytab]

I hate to wade into this, but Bark River sells many hundreds of knives every year. Maybe even thousands. I own at least a half dozen myself. None have had any issues so far. None. I am going to try and take out my new Michigan Bowie to beat on later today, and I will do so after learning in this thread that it is likely to fail the simplest tasks. None the less I will hazard the challenge..

Somehow, despite selling hundreds of blades per year, including many made for other companies, they have not only remained in business, but their products sell out quickly. And yet here, on these forums, they are the worst of the worst and lowest of the low. Deliberately mislabeling steels and screwing up grinds. Here's a thought for those who believe this: steel is cheap, labor is expensive. No one would put a Bark River finish on an Aus6 blade (as someone suggested). That would be idiotic.

I am entirely willing to accept that Mike Stewart might be shady as hell. My own customer service experience was a little disappointing. But they OBVIOUSLY make good stuff most of the time.

Ugh, so much wrong here.

Hopefully BRK sells more than hundreds of blades per year, otherwise their failure rate is significantly worse than what I thought. I'm betting they put out thousands of knives a year, maybe not tens of thousands but i'd put the over/under at 7k (just a guess). Next, just because you get half a dozen good blades from them, doesn't mean the average customer isn't taking more of a risk, as compared to other companies, in getting a bad blade and having a horrible time getting the issue resolved. Such statements are classic failures in logic due to using anecdotal evidence. Last, they have put out blades with far, far inferior steel than advertised, so saying it could be AUS6 is not out of the realm of possibilities. In fact, from what I've seen, using AUS6 for an advertised 20cv blade would actually make more sense than the high carbon steel they got caught putting in a blade and then refusing to admit the problem and left it to a dealer to fix it for the customer. That mess was an absolute shit show. Several threads on it here. Search function is your friend.

I've had 4 BRKs. None were perfect but none failed either. I considered them fair for the price I paid on the secondary market. That said, all had some sort of flaw that I would not have been happy with if buying new at new prices. So I'll agree with you that they mostly make good stuff, as they should, no awards for doing mostly what you should. That said, for knives in their price range, you are far more at risk of getting a bad one as compared to other options out there. If what they do is so special to you that it is worth the risk then go for it. No harm in that. Let's just not pretend the situation is different than what it actually is though.

 

[shane45-1911]

I hate to wade into this, but Bark River sells many hundreds of knives every year. Maybe even thousands. I own at least a half dozen myself. None have had any issues so far. None. I am going to try and take out my new Michigan Bowie to beat on later today, and I will do so after learning in this thread that it is likely to fail the simplest tasks. None the less I will hazard the challenge..

Somehow, despite selling hundreds of blades per year, including many made for other companies, they have not only remained in business, but their products sell out quickly. And yet here, on these forums, they are the worst of the worst and lowest of the low. Deliberately mislabeling steels and screwing up grinds. Here's a thought for those who believe this: steel is cheap, labor is expensive. No one would put a Bark River finish on an Aus6 blade (as someone suggested). That would be idiotic.

I am entirely willing to accept that Mike Stewart might be shady as hell. My own customer service experience was a little disappointing. But they OBVIOUSLY make good stuff most of the time.

Ugh, so much wrong here, indeed.

And you other guys with your cute little "like" emojis when ever someone defends BRK, obviously don't even know what you are liking. Unless it's agreeing that ignorance is bliss.

The FACTS regarding BRK and Stewart are out there. Some of you should become enlightened and take the fanboi blinders off.

 

[Gil P.]

Ugh, so much wrong here.

Hopefully BRK sells more than hundreds of blades per year, otherwise their failure rate is significantly worse than what I thought. I'm betting they put out thousands of knives a year, maybe not tens of thousands but i'd put the over/under at 7k (just a guess). Next, just because you get half a dozen good blades from them, doesn't mean the average customer isn't taking more of a risk, as compared to other companies, in getting a bad blade and having a horrible time getting the issue resolved. Such statements are classic failures in logic due to using anecdotal evidence. Last, they have put out blades with far, far inferior steel than advertised, so saying it could be AUS6 is not out of the realm of possibilities. In fact, from what I've seen, using AUS6 for an advertised 20cv blade would actually make more sense than the high carbon steel they got caught putting in a blade and then refusing to admit the problem and left it to a dealer to fix it for the customer. That mess was an absolute shit show. Several threads on it here. Search function is your friend.

I've had 4 BRKs. None were perfect but none failed either. I considered them fair for the price I paid on the secondary market. That said, all had some sort of flaw that I would not have been happy with if buying new at new prices. So I'll agree with you that they mostly make good stuff, as they should, no awards for doing mostly what you should. That said, for knives in their price range, you are far more at risk of getting a bad one as compared to other options out there. If what they do is so special to you that it is worth the risk then go for it. No harm in that. Let's just not pretend the situation is different than what it actually is though.

Ugh, so much wrong here, indeed.

And you other guys with your cute little "like" emojis when ever someone defends BRK, obviously don't even know what you are liking. Unless it's agreeing that ignorance is bliss.

The FACTS regarding BRK and Stewart are out there. Some of you should become enlightened and take the fanboi blinders off.

When you're right you're right. It's certainly a gamble.

 

[LuckyC]

What? How the fork is a smooth steel going to realign the edge?

"-Using a Steel
The steel is used to re-align the edge on the knife...Re-aligning the edge is all the steel needs to do. It does not need to remove any metal. Since the steel's only function is to re-align, the sharpening steel can be perfectly smooth and still do its job..." Joe Talmadge (edited for brevity)
Link to archived info posted by Mr. Talmadge on rec.knives.

Sorry for the late reply, due to the long holiday weekend, for a question posted from page 5.

 

[Sharpoholic]

Unless it's agreeing that ignorance is bliss.

The FACTS regarding BRK and Stewart are out there. Some of you should become enlightened and take the fanboi blinders off.

Every single brk defender in this thread has pretended that Mike Stuart’s shady business tactics never happened. Not a single one has addressed the issues. I suppose ignorance truly is bliss

 

[shane45-1911]

Every single brk defender in this thread has pretended that Mike Stuart’s shady business tactics never happened. Not a single one has addressed the issues. I suppose ignorance truly is bliss

Some people are also trying the old "bait and switch" tactic by saying, "OK, we know Mike Stewart is a scumbag, but his KNIVES are fine".

Sad, because it really is one and the same thing - you can't have an issue with one and not the other. The dirtbag owner IS the one responsible for the deliberately mis-represented blade steel issue that has been going on for over a decade now, as well as inconsistent and improper heat treatment across the board. I won't get into the other unethical/immoral/criminal actions of Stewart - again, the facts are out there.

For those of you that like your BR knives and have no problems, I'm sure Stewart may have actually made a couple with no issues - even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.

 

[Alone]

Ugh, so much wrong here, indeed.

And you other guys with your cute little "like" emojis when ever someone defends BRK, obviously don't even know what you are liking. Unless it's agreeing that ignorance is bliss.

The FACTS regarding BRK and Stewart are out there. Some of you should become enlightened and take the fanboi blinders off.

A whole lot wrong here, too.


I guess I'm one of the guys with the "cute little 'like' emojis" at who this narrow-minded little jab was directed. So, since you were kind enough to ring, I guess I'll play along. (*at least until I get slapped on the wrist again for not going along with "the club")

Ignorance comes in a lot of forms. For instance, you might be ignorant to the fact that some people don't consider you an authority on Bark River. You may be ignorant to the fact that some folks really couldn't care less about your dislike of Bark River knives, or your unhealthy obsession and ancient history with Mike Stewart. You may also be ignorant to the fact that some people trust their own decades of positive experiences more than you. (*Crazy, I know) Ignorance is also not knowing the difference being sharing a positive anecdote about something (*or "liking" a positive anecdote) and "defending" or "fanboi'ing". Fortunately though, these are all things you can work on.

And since you brought-up blinders, if I had such an unhealthy obsession with something or someone (*for so many years) that I was so triggered by the very mention of them, and forced to trash every thread in which it happened, I think I'd consider finally taking the blinders off and pursuing a little talk therapy. They even have apps on for your phone that can help you get past the trauma.


Best of luck with all this...

 

[shane45-1911]

A whole lot wrong here, too.


I guess I'm one of the guys with the "cute little 'like' emojis" at who this narrow-minded little jab was directed. So, since you were kind enough to ring, I guess I'll play along. (*at least until I get slapped on the wrist again for not going along with "the club")

Ignorance comes in a lot of forms. For instance, you might be ignorant to the fact that some people don't consider you an authority on Bark River. You may be ignorant to the fact that some folks really couldn't care less about your dislike of Bark River knives, or your unhealthy obsession and ancient history with Mike Stewart. You may also be ignorant to the fact that some people trust their own decades of positive experiences more than you. (*Crazy, I know) Ignorance is also not knowing the difference being sharing a positive anecdote about something (*or "liking" a positive anecdote) and "defending" or "fanboi'ing". Fortunately though, these are all things you can work on.

And since you brought-up blinders, if I had such an unhealthy obsession with something or someone (*for so many years) that I was so triggered by the very mention of them, and forced to trash every thread in which it happened, I think I'd consider finally taking the blinders off and pursuing a little talk therapy. They even have apps on for your phone that can help you get past the trauma.


Best of luck with all this...

Considering you choose to defend a known fraud on a knife forum dedicated to raising the bar and educating people, perhaps you are on the wrong forum.

It's not about who is right or wrong - it is about morals and truth and ethics and who we choose to support in this hobby.

Having a good knife from a bad person is nothing to brag about, let alone defend.

Carry on wallowing in your ignorance. You do everyone a dis-service when you support fraud in this industry.

 

[shane45-1911]

Alone jmh33

Read this. Then read it again. And keep re-reading it until you understand it. Especially the sentence in bold.

This from a previous post on BF regarding Mike Stewart. It sums it up nicely:

"Really? Catastrophic failures of the knives being posted regularly on forums for the last several years, Mike Stewart's decade-plus long history of fraud and lack of ethics, (as attested to by several high-ranking members of the knife community*)... you think all that is completely made up?
Stories of good experiences with Bark River and Mike Stewart don't magically make all the bad ones go away.
*Will Fennell, former VP of Camillus; Jerry Fisk, ABS Mastersmith; Mike Turber, former owner of Bladeforums. Just off the top of my head."

 

[Gil P.]

"-Using a Steel
The steel is used to re-align the edge on the knife...Re-aligning the edge is all the steel needs to do. It does not need to remove any metal. Since the steel's only function is to re-align, the sharpening steel can be perfectly smooth and still do its job..." Joe Talmadge (edited for brevity)
Link to archived info posted by Mr. Talmadge on rec.knives.

Sorry for the late reply, due to the

I'll read the article when I get the chance. Stropping has worked well for me until I feel I need a fresh edge. Im still skeptical about a steel repairing ripples on a camp knife with decent heat treat.

 

[craytab]

A whole lot wrong here, too.


I guess I'm one of the guys with the "cute little 'like' emojis" at who this narrow-minded little jab was directed. So, since you were kind enough to ring, I guess I'll play along. (*at least until I get slapped on the wrist again for not going along with "the club")

Ignorance comes in a lot of forms. For instance, you might be ignorant to the fact that some people don't consider you an authority on Bark River. You may be ignorant to the fact that some folks really couldn't care less about your dislike of Bark River knives, or your unhealthy obsession and ancient history with Mike Stewart. You may also be ignorant to the fact that some people trust their own decades of positive experiences more than you. (*Crazy, I know) Ignorance is also not knowing the difference being sharing a positive anecdote about something (*or "liking" a positive anecdote) and "defending" or "fanboi'ing". Fortunately though, these are all things you can work on.

And since you brought-up blinders, if I had such an unhealthy obsession with something or someone (*for so many years) that I was so triggered by the very mention of them, and forced to trash every thread in which it happened, I think I'd consider finally taking the blinders off and pursuing a little talk therapy. They even have apps on for your phone that can help you get past the trauma.


Best of luck with all this...

Shane is too nice to post this so I'll quote it from the other thread. He does have far more knowledge about BRKT and Mike Stewart than you:

It is a long sordid story that I am just going to highlight the key points here. Suffice it to say that he misrepresented several knives over several years with regards to type of steel he claimed he used, as has been mentioned more than once here. Once it was proven by independent analysis to not be the steel he claimed it was, I asked for a full refund for all the knives (a dozen). He lost his shit and ceased to answer any further phone calls or emails. I sued him and won, but was not able to recoup the total loss due to a number of "legalities". And this was not 10-20 years ago. This started around the end of 2015, and went on until the end of 2017.

The scumbag tried to counter-sue me for "defamation of character" which was eventually dismissed as he had no proof that I did or said anything libelous or slanderous (which I never did). I never posted anything on social media or this forum, until long after the shitstorm settled.

After speaking to several other members on this site as well as a few others I knew to have purchased Bark River knives, they too took action again Stewart when it was confirmed they had also bought knives under false pretenses. He then sent me several threatening emails that he would "find me and beat the shit out of me" (or words to that effect) if I didn't tell "all my friends who don't know what the f%$k they are talking about" to cease and desist with their own law suits. I called the police with this hard evidence he stupidly provided to me via email. He was charged and convicted of uttering threats of bodily harm.

This is just MY story. There are many others of poor quality work and broken knives that "supposedly" had warranty to cover them, as well as highly inflated shipping costs to ship his knives. Then there is the BIG story how scammed someone out of tens of thousands of dollars to go "partners" with him and finance his increase of shop space and productivity. That NEVER happened, and I don't recall how that ended. The details may very well be on this forum somewhere.

 

[91bravo]

Shane is too nice to post this so I'll quote it from the other thread. He does have far more knowledge about BRKT and Mike Stewart than you:

Wow

 

[craytab]

Wow

Yup. Seems like some people talking junk need to reconsider. This isn't ancient history.

 

[craytab]

Yup. Seems like some people talking junk need to reconsider. This isn't ancient history.

And people should read all the links in that other thread provided by T tltt . You'll notice a pattern.

Link:

DeLorean ride 2011 Tell Me About Bark River Knives, Please.

I am happy with my Bark River knives and I do not batton them. Or any high grade cutlery knife. I do not understand why people insist on trying to cleave wood with high rockwell knife blades when froes are the appropriate tool for this. A froe should be made from a low to medium carbon steel...

www.bladeforums.com

 

[Alone]

...He does have far more knowledge about BRKT and Mike Stewart than you:

If you post it, it must be true.



EDIT- And, before you spin off the rails, I'm not commenting on Shane's experience(s). I totally believe what you shared. I'm talking about your assumption on my knowledge of BRKT.

 

[shane45-1911]

If you post it, it must be true.

EDIT - based on your edit.

 

[Gil P.]

shane45-1911
That sucks, you went through that, but I'm glad you stood your ground against him.

What method was used to determine your knife steel wasn't the one it was advertised to be?

What do you think about this?
Is it morally wrong to buy things from a company who's owner is immoral? I think we all do it everyday. We buy clothes made by exploited children, beef from company's who mistreat their cows, eggs from chickens who are mistreated horribly... the list goes on.

I just think it's hypocritical to tell people they shouldn't buy something from a company because that companies owner is a piece of crap, even though we all do it every day.

Even so, I still agree with you. I had a pre order with Bark River that I'm going to cancel. High end knives are luxury items, and since there are superior knives from good people, why buy from Bark River?

I guess if there was superior beef from cows who were loved, id buy that too, if I could afford it.

 

[shane45-1911]

What method was used to determine your knife steel wasn't the one it was advertised to be?

What do you think about this?
Is it morally wrong to buy things from a company who's owner is immoral?

The lab used x-ray spectroscopy to determine the composition of the steel.

Regarding morality - I look at it this way. If you purchased a BR knife without knowing a single bit of Mike Stewart's sordid history or the quality (or lack thereof) of his knives, then you get a pass. However, if you bought a knife and/or continue to defend him after knowing the facts - then shame on you for supporting him.

A related example would be Strider. As I commented in another thread, I probably put Mick's kids through college single-handedly back in the day. But that was BEFORE the truth came out. I still love my Striders and M. Strider customs, but Mick never saw another penny of my money once the truth about the man was revealed, and I don't sing the praises of those knives any longer.