Bark River- who’s fault?

[Michaux111]

Except all the many many knives that have come out of his shop, that are in fact bad.

Look, the hardcore barkites are like a cult, it is a mentality MS has developed over the decades. Classic us vs them. Brilliant marketing. Nothing he can do is wrong in the eyes of the devout. The reason you don't see many of them around bladeforums these days is because we have been shutting down their hero worship nonsense for years, using facts, reason, science, and knowledge gained through experience. Mike Stewart doesn't do well with those sort of things so his gang doesn't do well here...

Tell us something we don't know....

 

[me2]

You can get away with very thin edges for surprisingly demanding work with cheap steels as long as the steels haven’t been damaged thermally. There is a shop tour of BRKT showing some fairly aggressive grinding on heat treated blades that were defiantly warm. While the bulk of the blade likely isn’t affected, the edge can be overheated pretty pretty quickly.

For rough work I’ve switched over to fairly soft steels that are easily repaired with a file. See the above reference to Cold Steel machetes. I added a primary bevel and filed them very thin with sharpening angles less than 20 degrees per side. One found a limit and would turn the primary grind in branches less than about 1/2”. Larger ones were fine. The other was a little more robust but still under 0.015” at the top of a 12 degree edge bevel. That one would cut tie wire without damage. Tie wire is the soft steel wire used to tie rebar in place in construction.

 

[craytab]

Tell us something we don't know....

I thought you were done?

It seems many people are unaware. 10-15 years ago, here and other places, there was a crusade waged by the devout barkites. They lost and we only have to put up with nonsense like "they make good knifes, they just do, ignore the meanies who don't like MS" every once in a while around here. Thanks for helping to give everyone a refresher

 

[Michaux111]

Oh I know about the past here... And thank you for the reminder, the purge here is alive and well.

 

[Kiteman72]

Oh I know about the past here... And thank you for the reminder, the purge here is alive and well.

Since this thread is about the OP's jacked up knife, that's what we're talking about.
Persistent and continual problems with BRK's steel and heat treat, etc.

Go on ahead and start your own thread here in GKD about your perfect Bark River Babies and tell everyone how great they are, and I guarantee I will happily stay out of it. Lots of other guys have gotten lucky and love theirs, so have at it.

 

[Pàdruig]

I'm a little late to this pig roast but I figured I would chime in with my experiences.

I own a total of three BRKs - each one of them I bought knowing the risks. I'm familiar with the sordid history and literally the only determining factor in me taking the plunge with each BRK I own is the fact that Bark River is one of the very few outfits that produce knives in more traditional patterns in volumes that make them easy to acquire.

My first BRK was the Quartermaster in 3v(?) steel and a stacked leather handle. It was a collaborative effort between BRK and Vehement Knives and is a reproduction (of sorts) of the Cattaraugus 225Q. For my first BRK, I was very pleased - to the eye, it is a damned near perfect knife and very well made. (Perhaps Vehement's involvement made BRK be on their A game - who knows )

Second BRK was the Teddy II, this one in A2 steel and also stacked leather. This one has a pretty bulbous handle (I think it could have been shaped better) and there is too much belly on the blade - someone was a little negligent on the grinder. Minor points of critique maybe but it is a significant difference in quality compared to the Quartermaster above. I've carried it a few times and cut meat with it but haven't done much else.

Enter the third and final BRK - the Edwin Forrest Bowie, same as the OP's knife. To be frank, I don't think this design lends itself well to robust tasks like chopping, brush clearing, and the like. It's akin to a kitchen knife, a meat carver and that is exactly the impression I had of it when I first saw it and that sentiment was further reinforced when I got it in hand - it is VERY thin behind the edge. However, this knife is atrociously made with a grind that lends belly in places it shouldn't have and recurves in others - it is seriously awful. That said, I was aware of the risks when I bought it and I 100% own that. The dealer offered to replace it but I opted to just keep this one - it might make a good project somewhere down the line or it will simply be an overly expensive meat carver when the situation arises.

If the disparity of quality can be so significant in such a small sample size, I can only imagine how many "Friday Specials" are out there that we do not hear about. Buy BRK at your own risk - MAYBE you will get a good one but the chances that you will get a lemon are far greater and you will likely not get much support from them should you want to get it fixed or replaced.

 

[dirc]

You can get away with very thin edges for surprisingly demanding work with cheap steels as long as the steels haven’t been damaged thermally. There is a shop tour of BRKT showing some fairly aggressive grinding on heat treated blades that were defiantly warm. While the bulk of the blade likely isn’t affected, the edge can be overheated pretty pretty quickly.

For rough work I’ve switched over to fairly soft steels that are easily repaired with a file. See the above reference to Cold Steel machetes. I added a primary bevel and filed them very thin with sharpening angles less than 20 degrees per side. One found a limit and would turn the primary grind in branches less than about 1/2”. Larger ones were fine. The other was a little more robust but still under 0.015” at the top of a 12 degree edge bevel. That one would cut tie wire without damage. Tie wire is the soft steel wire used to tie rebar in place in construction.

my heavy work chopper is an ontario ct5 machete, using plain 1075. It's extremely tough, and an order of magnitude cheaper than these brk's
my heavy work general utility knife is a mora... (the carbon they use is c90, so a little less carbon than 1095) - also extremely tough & also an order of magnitude less expensive ; )

as for plastic deformation, this vid may help...

if you encounter a steel which is bending too easily - this is most usually a sign of bad heat treatment for the steel in question (imho)

 

[ephsea]

Bark River outsources their heat treat, they use Peters Heat Treatment. I don't think Peters is screwing up the heat treatment, they're quite good at what they do.

 

[craytab]

Bark River outsources their heat treat, they use Peters Heat Treatment. I don't think Peters is screwing up the heat treatment, they're quite good at what they do.

I think the issue with BRK is they ruin the HT through sharpening.

 

[jjg6319]

This is a great thread to learn from. I will avoid this company in the future.

 

[craytab]

Oh I know about the past here... And thank you for the reminder, the purge here is alive and well.

I know you're aware. You've been defending BRK here for quite some time. And don't just thank me, be sure to thank everyone else in this thread too. 90% of us are telling you the same thing. If you are such a fan, you could go participate on his forum....oh wait.

 

[Jonah Shorter]

I'm a little late to this pig roast but I figured I would chime in with my experiences.

I own a total of three BRKs - each one of them I bought knowing the risks. I'm familiar with the sordid history and literally the only determining factor in me taking the plunge with each BRK I own is the fact that Bark River is one of the very few outfits that produce knives in more traditional patterns in volumes that make them easy to acquire.

My first BRK was the Quartermaster in 3v(?) steel and a stacked leather handle. It was a collaborative effort between BRK and Vehement Knives and is a reproduction (of sorts) of the Cattaraugus 225Q. For my first BRK, I was very pleased - to the eye, it is a damned near perfect knife and very well made. (Perhaps Vehement's involvement made BRK be on their A game - who knows )

Second BRK was the Teddy II, this one in A2 steel and also stacked leather. This one has a pretty bulbous handle (I think it could have been shaped better) and there is too much belly on the blade - someone was a little negligent on the grinder. Minor points of critique maybe but it is a significant difference in quality compared to the Quartermaster above. I've carried it a few times and cut meat with it but haven't done much else.

Enter the third and final BRK - the Edwin Forrest Bowie, same as the OP's knife. To be frank, I don't think this design lends itself well to robust tasks like chopping, brush clearing, and the like. It's akin to a kitchen knife, a meat carver and that is exactly the impression I had of it when I first saw it and that sentiment was further reinforced when I got it in hand - it is VERY thin behind the edge. However, this knife is atrociously made with a grind that lends belly in places it shouldn't have and recurves in others - it is seriously awful. That said, I was aware of the risks when I bought it and I 100% own that. The dealer offered to replace it but I opted to just keep this one - it might make a good project somewhere down the line or it will simply be an overly expensive meat carver when the situation arises.

If the disparity of quality can be so significant in such a small sample size, I can only imagine how many "Friday Specials" are out there that we do not hear about. Buy BRK at your own risk - MAYBE you will get a good one but the chances that you will get a lemon are far greater and you will likely not get much support from them should you want to get it fixed or replaced.

I’ve handled two Edwin Forrest Bowie’s and they both have terrible grinds looking down the blade spine. Also the belly grind is off as you mention, and this can be easily seen in most stock photos of the knife if you hold your phone up and look down the edge.

 

[craytab]

This is a great thread to learn from. I will avoid this company in the future.

There's a lot of info if you search around. Example: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bark-river-has-taken-16-000-of-my-money.585934/

 

[Pàdruig]

I’ve handled two Edwin Forrest Bowie’s and they both have terrible grinds looking down the blade spine. Also the belly grind is off as you mention, and this can be easily seen in most stock photos of the knife if you hold your phone up and look down the edge.

When my dealer offered to replace mine, I ended up looking at all the pictures on their website. One of the contributing factors to me not taking a replacement is that most of the individual pictures shown exhibited similar grind characteristics when looking pretty closely.

Frankly, there really isn't any excuse for that poor of craftsmanship.

 

[Jonah Shorter]

When my dealer offered to replace mine, I ended up looking at all the pictures on their website. One of the contributing factors to me not taking a replacement is that most of the individual pictures shown exhibited similar grind characteristics when looking pretty closely.

Frankly, there really isn't any excuse for that poor of craftsmanship.

Yes I looked at all of them as well and settled on the one I have now because it was one of the only ones I saw that was acceptable. However the grind looking down the spine is still way off. But you can’t tell that from the pictures.

 

[me2]

Bark River outsources their heat treat, they use Peters Heat Treatment. I don't think Peters is screwing up the heat treatment, they're quite good at what they do.

I don’t know that I’d agree with that either. It depends on the specific steel and protocol. Unless they’ve changed from several years ago I wouldn’t want them heat treating my plain carbon or low alloy steels.

 

[shane45-1911]

Unless they’ve changed from several years ago I would want them heat treating my plain carbon or low alloy steels.

Would or wouldn't?

 

[me2]

Wouldn’t. Edited above.

 

[Gil P.]

Bark River outsources their heat treat, they use Peters Heat Treatment. I don't think Peters is screwing up the heat treatment, they're quite good at what they do.

Does Bark River heat treat any of their steels?

I recall some years ago people talking about a video of the Bark River shop that showed heat treating ovens that were too full.

 

[shane45-1911]

Does Bark River heat treat any of their steels?

You pays your money, you takes your chances.