Bart Moore Bowie Knife - Replica by Franklin Mint

Hey, if you like it, and understand it’s intended purpose of manufacture, who cares.

My brother-in-law and niece like reproduction wall hangers. Mostly fantasy or movie swords and knives. While they know nothing about blade geometry, steel properties, or heat treat, they are perfectly happy paying $50 or $500 on one of they like the way it looks. They also have no real interest in actual working knives, and think a $10 no name is just fine, and would never pay $100+ for an EDC, camp knife, etc.

To each their own, and who am I to burst their bubble.
 
I imagine that most, if not all of the members on Bladeforums are of the opinion- "If you're happy with what you bought, that's what matters, as long as you have realistic expectations for it".

But I think one issue that people are having with the OP is his insistence that his Franklin Mint knife is comparable to knives and knife brands that are actually made to be used as knives, as if they are on some kind of equal level. It's one thing to say "I'm happy if you're happy", but it's another thing entirely to expect us to indulge the idea that a Franklin Mint is comparable to real knives. I think that's asking too much of the members here.

I don't see cruelty or meanness in this thread, I see people who, like myself, have probably had friends or family members who have bought "knife-like objects" which they initially liked, and then became very disappointed when those objects failed them, or eventually learned what a quality knife is, and then regretted the money they spent. I think the members here are motivated by a desire to educate, and steer people (and the OP) towards quality knives that can actually be used as knives, as well as save people from the financial loss, and the disappointment that often comes from buying "knife-like objects" .

A friend of mine bought a cheap folder at a gas station. He LOVED that knife. He wanted to show it off to me thinking I would love it too. I explained to him the "limitations" of his purchase and tried to steer him towards affordable, quality folders. His initial response was to get offended, his feelings were hurt. But within a week of his purchase he came to me asking me to recommend a knife, after he discovered that my evaluation of his knife was correct. And he has only bought quality knives since.

It may seem cruel or mean to give someone an honest evaluation of their "knife" and tell them that what they bought really isn't all that great, but in the end they might thank you for it, and spend the rest of their days knowing the enjoyment of owning and using quality knives.
 
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Yep. I got burned by a “Swiss Army” knife for $7.50 from the back of Boys Life when I was a kid. It hurt, to feel taken advantage of. But I didn’t try to defend my decision I just threw it in the Charles River.

After that I began a quest for knowledge to keep that from happening again. Knowledge is power.

Replica firearms advertising says “non firing replica does not fire.”

Franklin Mint knives should come with a similar disclaimer.

I didn’t see cruelty in the responses. Just an education.
 
To be fair, Frankin Mint used Boker and a few Spanish firms for the earlier stuff (Aitor being one), so it probably isn't that horrible compared to other knives of the time. The one thing that gives me pause is I've never seen one of these stripped down.

Here's the story of the Bart Moore Bowie - https://books.google.com/books?id=Wi4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60#v=onepage&q&f=false .
A Japanese collector offered them a boatload of money years ago (I think it was close to a million in 1989 bucks) as long as Moore would allow scientific and expert study to help prove the story, he turned down the offer.
 
der_vincent said:
Killgar: so you say that i have insisted that Franklin Mint makes Knives that are comparable to "real knifes" ?
Where or when did i say so?? I did not.

I wrote before: "Fellows: i am far from claiming that Franklin Mint should be considered a serious Knife Maker. I know it is not".
So just read before you write.

And just to let you know: in the forest, i actually USE a CS Trail Master, a Busse TGLB (Infi) and, above all, axes from Gransfors Bruks.
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No, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you.


- so just stop trying to "educate" about what is a Knife... i did not ask for advice.

Cheers, Erik
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You've been on Bladeforums long enough to know that you don't get to dictate how people respond to your posts, you get what you get, feel free to ignore what you don't like. Most of us here are adults, we speak our minds as adults, frankly and directly. And we give our honest opinions whether people like them or not.

I hope you're happy with your "knife". Truly I am. Cheers.:)
 
Killgar, thank you for your comment.. i appreciate your words. - Yes, this is a discussion forum, so every participant is free to speak his mind. Totally agreed.

Somehow, i think that this thread has gone in a strange direction.. a direction that was not intended. So please let me sum up:

My original Intention in the video was to show a REPLICA of the Bart Moore Bowie, and, since it features a blade catcher guard, to compare it with the Ontario Hells Belle (which can be considered a Replica itself). So the Video is just a comparison of two fighting Bowie Replicas with curved blade catcher guards.

It was not my intention to claim that Franklin Mint produces real knives .. i am aware that FM is not a serious Knife Maker at all.

Usually, before i buy a product, i do a lot of research about the Item. Regardless if it is a Motorcycle, or a refrigerator, or a Knife or an Axe. - so, in my research, i noticed that FM sells all kinda stuff.. porcelaine plates, watches, and some strange knive-like-objects .. really weird knifes with gold-plated fancy Guards and such... but among all their pseudo-knifes, this particular Moore Replica looked quite nice and interesting. And since i was curious and wanted to get an own impression about that particular Replica, i bought it.
And i was not disappointed. Especially the guard is massive thick steel. And the grip is real wood... on the Ontario Belle, i think it is Faux Wood. - regarding the Blade Steel: of course, it is surely some cheap steel, probably 420.

What i want to point out here:
I am not here to praise Franklin Mint.
I am here because i like Bowies with Blade Catchers. Like the Belle, like the Moore.

Surely an original Bagwell would be awesome to have ... but i do not want to spend that much money.

So ... i think we agree that Franklin Mint produces objects that look like knifes, but that are not real USER knifes. - correct so far?

Well, all i wanted to share is my Impression that in direct comparison to the Ontario Belle, the FM Moore does surprisingly well. Again, especially the Blade-Catcher Guard is great.

So, thats all i have to say..
And of course i respect you - and everybody here - to speak his opinion. Especially if it is based on facts and own hands-on experience. Reviews are very valuable.

No offense taken.. and i hope, no offense given, Buddy :)

Cheers, Erik
 
As I remember from the old catalogs these were Spanish, made in the later part of the 1980s, and probably from Aitor. They were pretty solid and had considerable heft, but made from something close to 420 steel. Not the best option out there today, pretty soft with substandard edge holding by todays standards, but at the time modern high performance steels were not exactly invented yet....Even so, while its not even close to being comparable to modern custom bowies its still serviceable if not pushed too hard.
 
madcap_magician said:
This MTech

143484_143513.jpg


and this Spartan

SPARTAN-HARSEY-DAGGERS__32702.1571942728.jpg


Are both also made out of stainless steel with synthetic handles and guards. Guess they must be meaningfully comparable as well?
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Both "will keel " ! ;)
 
No mention of the word "replica" here by the man who's name is on the blade.


"Affordable alternative", yes.
Levels down from the handmade custom, of course.
Then again levels above the FM display pieces.

It all boils down to whether it makes the buyer/owner happy.
I've got a cheap $12 Crapistanian Bowie from Smokey Mt with cracked cow horn handles, a loose guard and mystery stainless that I'll never get rid of.
Cuz it makes me happy. Reminds me of a time when I couldn't afford better and that was my only big bad bowie.
 
eveled said:
As much as I respect Jim Bowie, and all those who died at the Alamo. I have a tough time pursuing “Bowie knives”. Especially those purported to be replicas. Replicas of what?

The original Bowie knife is lost to time. Some Mexican lady probably wore it to a nub chopping kindling or veggies.

The provenance of all “Original Bowie’s” is questionable at best, more like highly doubtful.

For a user buy a knife that looks as Bowie-ish as you want. Then use it. Buck 124 is a good choice, maybe grind in a bigger clip.

For display buy a knife that you like to look at. For me personally it would have to be functional as well. I’d be looking at Randall Bowie’s. Cry once when you buy it, then smile if/when you sell it someday.

First rule of collecting anything is to avoid things made to be collectible.
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I understand this thread is a couple to few years old now, but I had to respond to this injustice of historical fact... The "Edwin Forrest Bowie".

This knife is incredibly important in the history of the Bowie knife.

As most "may" know there are literally hundreds of Bowie knife Patterns. - they are all actually legit Bowie Knife Patterns.

None of them Look like the Edwin Forrest Bowie.

The Edwin Bowie was the Actual Knife that Jim Bowie used at the Sandbar Duel that made him Famous. - Once that hit the Newspapers everyone wanted a "Knife Like Bowie's"

The Problem was that nobody had actually seen the knife so all these "Bowies" that popped up were really just what makers thought it Should Look like.

As most know - Jim Bowie was Wounded in the Sandbar Fight. He was recovering in New Orleans. Where he befriended a famous Actor of the period - "Edwin Forrest" - Bowie actually Gave Forrest the original knife to use in his Stage act. The knife became part of his Traveling Stage Show.

When Forrest Retired the knife with some newspaper clippings were Framed and put up on the wall in his home in Bryn Mar Pa.

In 1985 his Family Estate went up for Auction. The Folks at the American Bowie Knife Society knew about the knife and Collector William Williamson attended the Auction and bought the knife.

So in essence - nobody who made Bowie knives ever saw the knife until 1985. Not 1885 - 1985.

We have reproduced the knife to it's original Dimensions but we added the bolster. We did this so nobody could age one of ours and then claim it to be a vintage knife. This is very important when replicating a vintage knife to preserve the Originality of the real knife.

I don't think any other Company has made a replica of this knife.

I strongly feel that our knife is very important to those who want this original version of the knife that started the Bowie Legacy. -Paraphrased from Mike Stewart of Bark River Knives, formerly of Marbles Knives. My take; I have no idea what knife Bowie carried at the Alamo, where he met his demise; it just may have been the "traditional" large clip point, made by so many blade smiths of the period. You can do a quick websearch (or visit DLT or KnivesShipFree, and you can see the knife BRK makes. I know of a small, private blade smith, in PA, who makes a Bowie, similar to BRK's Edwin Forrest, which I believe he calls "The Forrest Bowie". So, the knife was not used by a Mexican woman, and was not lost in time. It is on display (I believe) at the National Bowie Historical Society, since they acquired the knife in 1985, in Arkansas (also, I believe, the location of the original creator of the knife; Arkansas).
 
Reports of onlookers at the Sandbar duel, did state that Bowie's knife "looked like a large Butcher's knife".
 
Rezin Bowie gave a large butcher knife to James shortly before what would become known as 'the Sandbar Duel.' I believe the Forrest Bowie to be the 'Bowie Knife' of Sandbar Duel fame. But, since there's no one alive to corroborate the story, we'll never know for certain. Unless, of course, someone were to forensically examine the blade for blood, and possibly familial DNA analysis.

While there is no one definitive Bowie knife, the large clip point fighting Bowies had their own schools for maximizing the knife as a weapon. Obviously based on fencing, the shorter blades required one to get close to ones' opponent. Footwork and accuracy were the things to learn.

It's also helpful to remember that Rezin Bowie was the marketeer behind the Bowie knife craze. While he didn't make any money, he did refine the design somewhat. He had numerous and sundry knives made, ALL properly called Bowie knives, and many of which he gave as gifts. Almost all were different, some with clip points, some without. The knives commissioned to Daniel Searles were particularly elegant, in my opinion, and my favorite example of a tactical chef's knife.

And, finally, for anyone who might be interested, I'm rather surprised at the choice of blade steel for the Ontario/Bagwell replicas. I'm even more surprised that Bagwell signed off on it. They were advertised as "QS-13" stainless. Never heard of it. Because there isn't one. QS-13, as near as I could find, was the designation of the proprietary heat-treating protocol for rendering a soft, but very tough, and easy-to-sharpen, 440A blade. But, Bill was widely known for his assertion that a true fighting bowie should be tough, above all else, with edge holding of less importance than edge taking.

Aaaand, that's all for now.........
 
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“Injustice of historical fact”? Lol.

It can’t even be proven that Edwin Forest even knew Jim Bowie.

No proof Jim gave Edwin the knife. Without proof, it’s just another story, not history.

bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com

Edwin Forrest and James Bowie

Edwin Forrest (1806-1872) A celebrated 19th-century stage actor, Edwin Forrest , claimed to have been a close friend of James Bowie when b...
bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com

Just one of many search results that dispute the authenticity of the knife.

Jim Bowie was a legend, he fought for freedom. People have been using his name on fraudulent knives for monetary gain. It borders on stolen valor.

I for one will have no part of it.
 
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David Bowie is of critical importance to the history of Glam Rock.

Prove me wrong.
 
eveled said:
“Injustice of historical fact”? Lol.

It can’t even be proven that Edwin Forest even knew Jim Bowie.

No proof Jim gave Edwin the knife. Without proof, it’s just another story, not history.

bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com

Edwin Forrest and James Bowie

Edwin Forrest (1806-1872) A celebrated 19th-century stage actor, Edwin Forrest , claimed to have been a close friend of James Bowie when b...
bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com

Just one of many search results that dispute the authenticity of the knife.

Jim Bowie was a legend, he fought for freedom. People have been using his name on fraudulent knives for monetary gain. It borders on stolen valor.

I for one will have no part of it.
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Everything looks bad if you remember it.
 
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