Basic 7 vs. BJ?

PeterPHWS said:
... So for me the choice would be a Basic 7 ... no question about that at all ...
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I just read your post after I posted, and you made some good points. Yes, for me also the choice is clearly a B7 over an SJ or BJ. The only possible exception would be a .180" BJ LE or a 3/16" SJ if slicing would be the primary use.
 
Uggh... this is not helping my need for a B7 and/or a B9. :foot: :D
 
With your size hands Tim, the B7 or B9 are the right choices ... the Basic 5 is a cracking knife but as has been said the grip is a little smaller ...

For the OP and Tim and others I can say that luckily for me I get away with a Basic 5 grip fine and the benefits of the Basic series are considerable.

For instance my Basic 5 may soon be sent of for a Scuba kydex sheath as I reckon it is ideal for this at .25 thick and diving is one of the few areas where you might need a bit of pry-bar use. The tip will definately take this and cutting netting under water it will excel at. Rust will not be an issue if the knife is looked after properly ... not in my life time anyway ... and most "dive" knives cannot take an "edge" well because the carbon in the steel is too low having chosen a form of "stainless" to make it from which is very unlikely to rust ... Infi is a great compromise here ... again check out the info on their site as to water immersion/rust resistance. The Res C grip is excellent when the knife is wet and the ASM edge is "very" robust and easily sharpened in the field/on the boat. A crock stick is all you need to bring the edge back gently running it down the flat side of the ASM edge.

The Basic 7 though is an alternative for that use if you need a larger handle for comfort. The only difference in smaller knives like the B5 is the control you have using the tip ... and may be working inside a carcass if used for hunting ... but Will York uses a Basic 7 a lot and if you want the larger handle I can see why ... the knife has to be comfortable "first" ... but if they "fit" the Basic's are incredibly comfortable ...

Another aspect of the Res C handle is that it works really well in seriously cold conditions where metal exposure on skin can cause a "cold weld" ... my Basic 9 which I took on an Artic Course in Norway was perfect ... if I had enough of them I reckon everyone on the "base" would have bought one ...

With the advent of "Bushcraft" I suspect many on the W&S forum's expect Scandanavians in the Artic use 4 inch knives ... they don't ... the Sami use a Leku on their belts and it is between 7 and 9 inches ... and that is a good indication of what works the best as these people "live it" every day ... all their lives ... not playing at it one little bit ... and the old guys I talked to when I went travelling over to Finland to do another course liked the Basic 9 a lot ...

Like I said in an earlier post ... the Basic's should have been called the "Professional" range ... because they epitomise what people who really use knives look for ... they are light ... but still blade heavy in the longer knives ... chop well in the right size range ... sharpen well in the field ... the ASM edge out lasts a normal V or convex grind ... and they are comfortable but still very strong.

The only thing I cannot understand is why Jerry gave up on them ??????? They should be a regular offering ... and a Khukri model should be done which is light enough to carry in the field for Tropical/ Hard Wood regions. Given the total range of a 5 inch to an 11 inch knife they cover off all your needs ... the only thing missing is a Basic Zilla.
 
PeterPHWS said:
The only thing I cannot understand is why Jerry gave up on them ??????? They should be a regular offering ... and a Khukri model should be done which is light enough to carry in the field for Tropical/ Hard Wood regions. Given the total range of a 5 inch to an 11 inch knife they cover off all your needs ... the only thing missing is a Basic Zilla.
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The post I saw from jerry regarding the basics said that they were costing to much money to produce, the cost of M-INFI was starting to come in line with INFI. The basics were originally made with the idea of being the economy line, effectively what swamp rat started out as and then as swamp rats production costs increased, what scrap yard became. Both busse and scrap yard seem to have decided that if the knife is going to cost the full price of a comparable micarta scaled knife, it was worth going with the "tougher" option.

I've never felt entirely okay with reciprene c because I've split it twice, once on the handle from a baton and one on the back from a hammer (both my fault). I doubt I could get it to a point of not being usable through normal use, but in the back of my head I always wondered how I could fix it if it did. But thinking of it now, I've made hidden tang scales from purple heart before, so theres no reason why I couldn't do it again. If I had to pare back to one chopper, it would be the basic 11 so I'm starting to sway towards what you've said, that the basic line (especially the choppers) are really an ideal form that stands ahead of the pack in a lot of ways. I've always wanted a reciprene c machete/short sword like the rat sword skunk posted.

Jerry has said that doing a skeletonized tang on chopping knives increases the chance of the vibration being a major issue for the users hand. If he did a skeletonization he would have to do some kind of fill in the handle or figure out how to reduce the vibration.
 
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Good perspectives in this thread.

I agree with LVC that Resiprene can be vulnerable to splitting, but after seeing what the handles on Noss's test knives went through, as LVC also says, it's hard to imagine damaging a Resiprene handle to the point that it's not useable. And even though micarta is obviously much tougher than Resiprene, the tube fasteners securing the micarta slabs on Busse knives can be broken by impact (also shown by Noss in his FFBM test), and once the fasteners fail you're down to a bare tang for a handle--no more appealing than a damaged Resiprene handle, at least in my mind.

I also once thought the full-tang standard Busse construction would be much stronger laterally than the reduced tang encased by Resiprene on the Basics, but there again, from Noss's testing on the Basic 9 and the Scrapper 6 it appears that the tang length is short enough in proportion to the blade that the flex point in terms of lateral loading remains out on the blade. In fact, the only reduced tangs I've seen fail under Noss's 3-lb steel mallet were thinner tangs from other manufacturers. The Basic 9 tang remained straight under the weight-bearing "step" test and the flex test where he broke the tip, and when the B9 finally broke under heavy hammer blows to the handle, it was the blade that went--not the tang. So the significant weight savings in the reduced tangs on the Basics doesn't seem to result in a noticeable loss of strength, and actually, it's possible to go to a full .25" thick blade and still have a lighter knife with Resiprene, which actually makes for stronger prying. For example, the Basic 7 weighs about 12-12 1/2 oz with a 7" blade that's .25" thick, while an ASH1 LE weighs about 15 1/2 oz with a 6.5" blade that's .22" thick.

Plus, as Peter and LVC point out, the cushioning comfort of the Resiprene extends to vibration dampening and to insulation from extreme cold, also. Last weekend clearing trail, I went through a 5-inch diameter dried/seasoned juniper trunk (hard) with a Basic 11 that I would not ordinarily have attempted without gloves had I been using an FBM, because of vibration.
 
What needs to be appreciated perhaps is that the Basic range have "full tangs" which are simply smaller than normal so you can slip a Res C handle over them. They are not your thin stick tang sometimes seen on take down forged blades ... nor are they drilled out with holes as per the "slut" series ... and are about as strong as any other full tang Busse. They really are the best of both worlds ... as this type of tang saves a lot of weight.

I've batonned the hilt of my Basic 9 with a helmet to create a fire hole in an adobe wall about as thick as the blade is long ... 9 inches or so ... and had no marks on the hilt after doing so. It is all about how you hit the hilt and what with. Hammers are what you use to hit metal spike's with ... mallets are for wood and possibly knives ... for me I am more likely to use wood to hit the knife if I had to ... but even more likely to make a wooden spike to do the job if I had time ... and this would likely be 0.5% of my total use of the knife as I tend to respect a knife for what it is intended for. The odd emergency being an exception.

As Will says ... check out the Noss testing where he basically breaks all the standard common sense rules on how to use a knife ... and the Basic's still survived. So I see absolutely no reason to question the toughness of the handle.

You are'nt thinking around a problem if you destroy your knife trying to tackle it ... and any knife can be ruined by making it do none knife tasks.
 
Will York said:
So the significant weight savings in the reduced tangs on the Basics doesn't seem to result in a noticeable loss of strength, and actually, it's possible to go to a full .25" thick blade and still have a lighter knife with Resiprene, which actually makes for stronger prying. For example, the Basic 7 weighs about 12-12 1/2 oz with a 7" blade that's .25" thick, while an ASH1 LE weighs about 15 1/2 oz with a 6.5" blade that's .22" thick.
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I could readily imagine rationalizing why I don't need a TTKZ and selling it to pay other bills, that's a lot hard to imagine with the B11. It's just to good.

My choiless Boss Jack proto weighs 11.7oz at 3/16" thick with a slightly smaller form factor at 11.5" OAL with a 6.5" blade. If it were shaved down to 1/8" thick it would be closer in weight to the 1/4" full height grind basic 7, but it would be half the thickness.

Which I would love :D:thumbup: I think we need an Choiless Anerexic Basic 7 and Choiless Anerexic Boss Jack set. CAB7 and CABJ.
 
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PeterPHWS said:
I've batonned the hilt of my Basic 9 with a helmet to create a fire hole in an adobe wall about as thick as the blade is long ... 9 inches or so ... and had no marks on the hilt after doing so. It is all about how you hit the hilt and what with. Hammers are what you use to hit metal spike's with ... mallets are for wood and possibly knives ... for me I am more likely to use wood to hit the knife if I had to ... but even more likely to make a wooden spike to do the job if I had time ... and this would likely be 0.5% of my total use of the knife as I tend to respect a knife for what it is intended for. The odd emergency being an exception.
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There was a lot of things I should have done with that dog father instead of using a sledge hammer on the tang. It was still 100% functional, it just had a split on the pommel and the tube fastener was scewed. The handle was still tight to the tang and felt like nothing had happened if you weren't looking at the back end. To it's credit - if I had done that with an exposed tang model like the battle mistress and missed the tang a bit hitting a scale, that scale would have skewed and made the damage immediately noticeable to the hand. Even if the scales were still solid, they would no longer flush to the tang like the reciprene c was.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
... It was still 100% functional, it just had a split on the pommel and the tube fastener was scewed. The handle was still tight to the tang and felt like nothing had happened if you weren't looking at the back end...
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+1 :thumbup:

Exactly the same with the Basic 9 Noss tested (see pic below). It sustained a small split on the pommel and the tube fastener was compressed, but if you examine it for comfort under hand or integrity of the seal around tang/ricasso, still completely functional--almost perfect:

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Interesting information in the last few posts ... makes a good case for saying the Res C grip is every bit as good as a full tang ... maybe better compared to losing one or more scales in terms of being able to carry on using the knife ...
 
PeterPHWS said:
Interesting information in the last few posts ... makes a good case for saying the Res C grip is every bit as good as a full tang ... maybe better compared to losing one or more scales in terms of being able to carry on using the knife ...
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That's how I see it, also. Short of dropping the knife in a fire and melting the Res-C off the tang, or rubber-craving squirrels eating the handle off while you're asleep in your tent...I think the durability advantage may well fall to the Res-C.
 
B7s were hard to come by before these enthusiastic endorsements made the case for Basic 7 to be perhaps the best midsize knife from Busse Combat, I wonder how seldom we would see those knives come up for sale again…..:D
 
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...the case for Basic 7 to be perhaps the best midsize knife from Busse Combat
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Well, they can't be that good. There's a broken one in that photo.

I didn't think Busses were supposed to break.
 
komondor said:
Well, they can't be that good. There's a broken one in that photo.

I didn't think Busses were supposed to break.
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There is no such thing as an unbreakable object in this universe. It's just a matter of providing the right amount of force in the right direction. anyone who says different is probably a physicist, and we know we can't trust those guys (shifts eyes side to side suspiciously)
 
komondor said:
Good Gawd, I was being facetious. :rolleyes:
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People do actually make that argument about knives when they see them broken. "This is not supposed to break, this knife is terrible". it's not about whether it can be broken, it's how much effort and force it takes to break it, and under what conditions. Some people don't see it like that.
 
I've got to say, with all the love in this thread I realize I'm not alone, I really like the resiprene c handle on my B11 and especially the mudder grip on my scrapper 5.

I would like to see some more res c knives come out, from any of the Busse-kin companies
 
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