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Well the con is you break your knife. It happens.
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Batoning Broken Down
- Thread starter CM_Rick
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Well the con is you break your knife. It happens.
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Dried olive wood,great pressure,and my 3 inch blade was bent(moment of true-but when i got to bottom it came back
)
it came out just fine,this is not a thing that i usually do with knives,carefully it can be done even with small knife..but i think axe is better suited for that job.
just my 2¢...
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Ive batoned a Vic Farmer through wood before and it didnt break, and the world is still spinning.
Seems obvious that you like more dead horse pic's
You teach what? how? whit what knife?
I can baton whit 1/16" if it's necessary
but I want risk it. If I have a small knife, I will prefer to slice down small branch to the core (for dry wood) Instead of risking the only knife that I have.
I'm just saying...
What you think, survival instructor...
Seems obvious that you like more dead horse pic's
You teach what? how? whit what knife?
I can baton whit 1/16" if it's necessary
If I have a small knife, I will prefer to slice down small branch to the core (for dry wood) Instead of risking the only knife that I have.
I'm just saying...
What you think, survival instructor...
I teach the skill that this thread is about. By demonstration. With a knife designed for such a task. If you have a small knife, I think you're a little limited on tasks you COULD perform otherwise. I'm just saying... That is what I think, student.
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Even gnarly, knotted Australia hard wood can be batoned in a tight spot. My axe was literally bouncing off the wood or sinking in half and inch and getting stuck. I should add that the axe was very cheap though.
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You may not break it the first time or the following 100 times. Microfractures happen in steel and the risk of breaking a knife is always going to be there. We've all read posts of guys having there knives break while batoning. One guy batoned his kabar for a couple of years before it eventually broke. Baton or don't it's no skin off my back but infering that the risk of breakage isn't there is silly.
foxyrick
British Pork
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I don't think I've posted in a batoning thread before... might have, but I tend to avoid doing so for obvious reasons 
Still... I'm bored so here's my take fwiw:
I've batoned wood to split big lumps into smaller sticks since I was a kid - long before the internet came along to tell us how to (or not to) do it.
Notice that I haven't said what with?
Well, I've done it with medium to big knives, small axes(!) and even wedge-shaped pieces of wood.
Yes, I've batoned an axe - that is, I hit the back of the axe with another lump of wood to push the blade through what I wanted cut.
Personally I have no issues with batoning with a knife, although I wouldn't do it with a smaller one unless I needed to. (must define 'needed to'... lol) Generally I would try to have a Busse on me though, so I'm sorted.
Batoning a small axe though is easier than a knife (at least up to it's height, and then you can whack the whole lot on the ground), safer than swinging the axe if one is not skilled, and more accurate too.
So, the next argument-maker - let's baton those axes!
Still... I'm bored so here's my take fwiw:
I've batoned wood to split big lumps into smaller sticks since I was a kid - long before the internet came along to tell us how to (or not to) do it.
Notice that I haven't said what with?
Well, I've done it with medium to big knives, small axes(!) and even wedge-shaped pieces of wood.
Yes, I've batoned an axe - that is, I hit the back of the axe with another lump of wood to push the blade through what I wanted cut.
Personally I have no issues with batoning with a knife, although I wouldn't do it with a smaller one unless I needed to. (must define 'needed to'... lol) Generally I would try to have a Busse on me though, so I'm sorted.
Batoning a small axe though is easier than a knife (at least up to it's height, and then you can whack the whole lot on the ground), safer than swinging the axe if one is not skilled, and more accurate too.
So, the next argument-maker - let's baton those axes!
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And the risk of losing your knife or misplacing at a point of distraction is far, far, far greater still. I think the logic of micro-fractures can easily be extended into risk due to losing. Afterall, if you lose the blade you can't claim warranty like you could from all those stand up companies out there.
As a result, not only should batoning be banned, but people should forgoe from using their blade especially while in the woods. In fact, worse then losing your knife is the fact that the greatest likelihood of any member here in encountering a survival situation is from car crash en route to the bush, or more than 4 times likely on average, en route to your home.
Thus, to be perfectly safe you should 1) not baton your knife; 2) do not bring your knife to the woods as you might lose it, 3) avoid getting into cars (especially while near your home). I'm sure if you follow those three simple rules, you will never suffer knife failure.
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Wasnt infering anything like that. Was stating that it could be done if you know your tools limitations.. I wouldnt baton a folder through some 5in dia Ironwood, but for smaller stuff, and bowdrill notches it works just fine. There is risk involved in everything we do. If I was ass out in a survival situation, and the vic was my only blade, I wouldnt do that, but if I was ever in a place that one could be lost, I mean really lost, I would have plenty of other tools to use. Including my axe.
But Id still baton my fixed blade.
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And the risk of losing your knife or misplacing at a point of distraction is far, far, far greater still. I think the logic of micro-fractures can easily be extended into risk due to losing. Afterall, if you lose the blade you can't claim warranty like you could from all those stand up companies out there.
As a result, not only should batoning be banned, but people should forgoe from using their blade especially while in the woods. In fact, worse then losing your knife is the fact that the greatest likelihood of any member here in encountering a survival situation is from car crash en route to the bush, or more than 4 times likely on average, en route to your home.
Thus, to be perfectly safe you should 1) not baton your knife; 2) do not bring your knife to the woods as you might lose it, 3) avoid getting into cars (especially while near your home). I'm sure if you follow those three simple rules, you will never suffer knife failure.
Why I otta...
I personally have no problems with batoning however the OP asked what con could there be. The con is your knife could break, plain and simple.
And the risk of losing your knife or misplacing at a point of distraction is far, far, far greater still. I think the logic of micro-fractures can easily be extended into risk due to losing. Afterall, if you lose the blade you can't claim warranty like you could from all those stand up companies out there.
As a result, not only should batoning be banned, but people should forgoe from using their blade especially while in the woods. In fact, worse then losing your knife is the fact that the greatest likelihood of any member here in encountering a survival situation is from car crash en route to the bush, or more than 4 times likely on average, en route to your home.
Thus, to be perfectly safe you should 1) not baton your knife; 2) do not bring your knife to the woods as you might lose it, 3) avoid getting into cars (especially while near your home). I'm sure if you follow those three simple rules, you will never suffer knife failure.
This is just capital. . . Best Advice Ever
Breaking the knife is a big con, obviously. But, it is a big "IF" too. With a full tang fixed blade, it's just not likely. This con gets more value when carrying stick tangs and folders, but for full tang thickies, it's a minimal risk.
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Could you expand on that a little? Are there tests of knives being battoned that they've looked at and seen micro fractures? What steel were they testing and at what hardness?
I'm honestly asking, not trying to be sarcastic.
Thanks for any info,
Iz
Breakage is a con of it no doubt. I have done it with a RAT 7 in D-2. Took a 3" or so section out of the blade it self.
Ok lets really talk straight here, Unless you live the tropics and you have a area that looks like pitdogs moss and stuff like that all over the place.
I mean a really wet damp place that seems to be like that all the time.
How many of you can walk out of your home right now and grab a stick thumb thickness or so that is off the ground and start to shave it with your knife making up a fuzz stick or even just shavings and then start them shavings on fire?
I have done it after a 3 day rain here in Nebraska to show my nephew that is can be done. Remeber the out side of the stick is damp but the whole inside is not. Once you get a few shavings started you are right into the dry wood. So I can tell you right now right here in my area of the world I live in a hard and soft wood area. I would never have to batton a single stick when I can just start carving up a fuzz stick, but I do because it sure makes getting hearth boards easyer, and it sure is fun to do when I am sitting next to my fire. I like to split small round that I cut with my saw
and then batton/ split
them and feed that spit wood into my fire. I am not trying to spilt 5" thick hard frozen wood with my 5.5" knife. Although I have seen some do that and I think that is really asking for trouble.
As you can see I do not need to split that thick of wood. I have travled while in the Marines and I so far have never had to do that then either. I do not tackle thick wood with my knife the thickest I split is that wrist thickness or so.
There as to be some thinking done here guys. There are some who think they are going to jump behind emeny lines, attack a tank with there knife and then try to kill the driver with that same knife. I kid you not I have chatted with some who have called me on the phone wanting me to make them a knife and tell me that type of stuff. I tell them right then and there I am not the maker you want you need Gil Hibbon or some one like that who make fantsy type blades, I make a working man / woodsman type of blade.
I have been making knives for 3 years now and I and I bet I have told callers that 15 or so times. I was even chatting with Brian Andrews a couple of weeks back and he has had that typr of stuff asked too.
There are some real arm chair Commandos out there.
So really how many NEED to batton there knives to get into some dry wood or couls you just pic a stick from off the ground and start shaving that stick?
If you only for some dumb reason had one knife ( I normally have 4 when I head to the woods which is most every day becasue I take Kelly Girl for her daily walk in the woods down by the river near town) would you still do that and take the chance of it being that one time and breaking?
Just wondering how many will stay say yes lol.
After all that I just said I bet most of you could just grab a stick and start shaving it up.
Take care all,
Bryan
Ok lets really talk straight here, Unless you live the tropics and you have a area that looks like pitdogs moss and stuff like that all over the place.
I mean a really wet damp place that seems to be like that all the time.
How many of you can walk out of your home right now and grab a stick thumb thickness or so that is off the ground and start to shave it with your knife making up a fuzz stick or even just shavings and then start them shavings on fire?
I have done it after a 3 day rain here in Nebraska to show my nephew that is can be done. Remeber the out side of the stick is damp but the whole inside is not. Once you get a few shavings started you are right into the dry wood. So I can tell you right now right here in my area of the world I live in a hard and soft wood area. I would never have to batton a single stick when I can just start carving up a fuzz stick, but I do because it sure makes getting hearth boards easyer, and it sure is fun to do when I am sitting next to my fire. I like to split small round that I cut with my saw
and then batton/ split
them and feed that spit wood into my fire. I am not trying to spilt 5" thick hard frozen wood with my 5.5" knife. Although I have seen some do that and I think that is really asking for trouble.
As you can see I do not need to split that thick of wood. I have travled while in the Marines and I so far have never had to do that then either. I do not tackle thick wood with my knife the thickest I split is that wrist thickness or so.
There as to be some thinking done here guys. There are some who think they are going to jump behind emeny lines, attack a tank with there knife and then try to kill the driver with that same knife. I kid you not I have chatted with some who have called me on the phone wanting me to make them a knife and tell me that type of stuff. I tell them right then and there I am not the maker you want you need Gil Hibbon or some one like that who make fantsy type blades, I make a working man / woodsman type of blade.
I have been making knives for 3 years now and I and I bet I have told callers that 15 or so times. I was even chatting with Brian Andrews a couple of weeks back and he has had that typr of stuff asked too.
There are some real arm chair Commandos out there.
So really how many NEED to batton there knives to get into some dry wood or couls you just pic a stick from off the ground and start shaving that stick?
If you only for some dumb reason had one knife ( I normally have 4 when I head to the woods which is most every day becasue I take Kelly Girl for her daily walk in the woods down by the river near town) would you still do that and take the chance of it being that one time and breaking?
Just wondering how many will stay say yes
lol. After all that I just said I bet most of you could just grab a stick and start shaving it up.
Take care all,
Bryan
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Wow!
What a well thought out and insightful post. The images speak volumes.
Thanks for this.
(Nothing intended by removing most of the post other than saving space)
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No expert by any means but I believe that was the conclusion of a guy who broke an M6 Swamp Rat. This was an extreme case where the guy spent several hours batoning with a wrench as a baton but it illustrates the same problem that could happen with lesser knives like the kabar and a wooden baton. Not sure that microfractures is the correct term. Maybe it would be called fatigueing the metal.
Nice post. I would also add that all that batoning takes a lot of energy.
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Well said Bryan.
I have batoned large sections of log (maybe 12" long and maybe 9-10" in diameter?) with a Tramontina bolo, not straight through the log (good luck with that!) but rather by taking small pieces around the outside, then batoning the 'peaks' etc., until it's down to a manageable size.
It was done, sitting by the fire, after a day of paddling, absorbing some of Walker's finest.
I don't know anything about heat treats etc., but I'm guessing this isn't such a great risk due to the lower Rc rating of a machete?
I have also done a ton of batoning with a Mora with no ill effects but this is probably because, like Bryan, I don't get too ambitious with regards to wood size. It all boils down to using some common (maybe not so common, any more
) sense.
I wouldn't try to baton a log with my RC-3, etc.
Doc
I have batoned large sections of log (maybe 12" long and maybe 9-10" in diameter?) with a Tramontina bolo, not straight through the log (good luck with that!) but rather by taking small pieces around the outside, then batoning the 'peaks' etc., until it's down to a manageable size.
It was done, sitting by the fire, after a day of paddling, absorbing some of Walker's finest.
I don't know anything about heat treats etc., but I'm guessing this isn't such a great risk due to the lower Rc rating of a machete?
I have also done a ton of batoning with a Mora with no ill effects but this is probably because, like Bryan, I don't get too ambitious with regards to wood size. It all boils down to using some common (maybe not so common, any more
) sense.I wouldn't try to baton a log with my RC-3, etc.
Doc