Batoning large pieces of wood is not necessary...

When all the wood is covered in snow, it is hard to come up with tinder and "dry" wood, whether it's on the ground, or standing up right.
Jeff, I am not saying you are wrong in the OP, but from my experience batonning saved me a couple of times. And yes! I live in Canada, aye?!
 
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Is this the "scraping" you guys are talking about? This guy Colhane has some neat vids. Missionary in Brazil.
 
When all the wood is covered in snow, it is hard to come up with tinder and "dry" wood, whether it's on the ground, or standing up right.
Jeff, I am not saying you are wrong in the OP, but from my experience batonning saved me a couple of times. And yes! I live in Canada, aye?!

Friggin hosers!
 
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I can travel 50-75 yards out the back door and find the stuff I need, no batoning.

I can travel 50 to 75 yards out the back door...and be in someone else's house.
I can travel 8-10 yards out the back door and find...rocks (then the crumbling alley, then the trash pile across the alley...)

You bastards with bits of nature near you.:grumpy:
The closest I have to nature around here is poisoned rats, along with garbage eating cats and squirrels.:thumbup:
 
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I can travel 50 to 75 yards out the back door...and be in someone elses house.
I can travel 8-10 yards out the back door and find...rocks (then the crumbling alley, then the trash pile across the alley...)

You bastards with bits of nature near you.:grumpy
The closest I have to nature around here is poisoned rats, along with garbage eating cats and squirrels.:thumbup:

Where the heck do you live?
I live in an urban environment (Toronto), but It only takes 10-15 minutes to get to a decent forest or park.
 
Where the heck do you live?
I live in an urban environment (Toronto), but It only takes 10-15 minutes to get to a decent forest or park.

Central Windsor.
I can get to an area with trees...using the bus.
Otherwise it,s a good hour of walking(well, there's a park about a 30 minute walk away, but it has a mansion in the middle, so dog-walking is the woodsiest thing anyone can get away with there).

At least I can honestly say that anytime there's a picture of me doing something with wood it isn't in my backyard.:D
 
Central Windsor.
I can get to an area with trees...using the bus.
Otherwise it,s a good hour of walking(well, there's a park about a 30 minute walk away, but it has a mansion in the middle, so dog-walking is the woodsiest thing anyone can get away with there).

At least I can honestly say that anytime there's a picture of me doing something with wood it isn't in my backyard.:D

Ahh...
I am lucky, located in northern Toronto. If I lived closer to Downtown, would have to travel to see some trees, just like you.
But that of course makes going into the woods a more exciting and unique outing.
Cheers!
 
:thumbup: ...my thoughts exactly. Although not against it (to each their own, right?), I really don't see the need for it, that is what an axe is for, I never go far from home without an axe :) (or machete in the jungle).

I've been working in the woods for almost 20 years and have never needed to baton wood with a knife, and in fact I had never even heard of it before until spending time on these forums.

I would say that for the most part, I don't even use the axe all that much either for wilderness fire building, usually dead dry limbs from the bottom of conifers, birch bark, old man's beard, etc; these are all plentiful tinder where I have lived and worked (at least in North America) and lighting a fire even in the rain or winter has usually not been all that challenging.

After a long day at work, or a long hike, the last thing one wants to do is expend needless energy cutting and chopping. Whenever possible I will opt to feed logs into the fire instead of chopping or sawing into lengths, although of course there are times when this is not the best idea (i.e. very dry conditions when risk of forest fire is high).

I may give batoning a try some time just for fun now that I have a suite of almost indestructible ESEE knives at my disposal that are more than up to the challenge!

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Whether you agreed with me or not, I would default to your judgement on just about anything in the woods. I'm gonna tell this story again on you:

I know I've told this story before but when Rob was going through our class in Peru I noticed he kept helping the other guys on their nav work and sourvival skills. I finally asked him what he did and he's a friggin' surveyor spending most of his life on the ground in some remote part of the world. I asked him to finish teaching the nav part of the class because he damn sure didn't need to be taking it :D. I learned some neat tricks from Rob and he probably doesn't even know he's the one that taught me. ;) So, to make a long story short, Rob doesn't post a whole lot but when he does I listen. Mainly because he spends most of his life in the woods doing what we write about all the time. It's his job. You want to learn some good skils, then hook up with this guy.
 
People ALWAYS argue about the right way to do up a fire.
Even the so-called survival experts can never agree on it, other then the fact that you often need a fire.
As long as we're not freezing to death or burning the woods down, who gives a crap?:)
 
People ALWAYS argue about the right way to do up a fire.
Even the so-called survival experts can never agree on it, other then the fact that you often need a fire.
As long as we're not freezing to death or burning the woods down, who gives a crap?:)

Well, for one, I care. Simply becasue there are a lot of newcomers to survival and I think they should understand the principles and basics of fire building before shortcutting the process. It may save their life some day. That's the very reason we teach bow dril and often flint and steel in our classes. Not that anyone with a Bic lighter would ever use these methods but I've seen people with a Bic lighter and gasoline not be able to get a sustaining fire. If you know the basics then you can build fire.
 
I can travel 50 to 75 yards out the back door...and be in someone else's house.
I can travel 8-10 yards out the back door and find...rocks (then the crumbling alley, then the trash pile across the alley...)

You bastards with bits of nature near you.:grumpy:
The closest I have to nature around here is poisoned rats, along with garbage eating cats and squirrels.:thumbup:

Had my fill for now of urban life....that's why I'm back out here :cool:

Sure is nice...after a meal..am going out to test out more natural tinders. The fact remains around here I can start and maintain a fire without using any knife or tools but a firesteel and its striker. Just so much stuff dries quickly for the taking. :rolleyes:
 
but I've seen people with a Bic lighter and gasoline not be able to get a sustaining fire.

Well, then they aren't doing it right.
I've only tried a friction fire twice, with success once, but since I was a child I could get a fire going with one match. No boyscouts involved, no camping trips (been straight up city all my life:)), no accelerant, and, well, no training in it at all.
It just made sense to put things together in a manner where they would burn.
Different sizes of dry stuff with channels for air without so much draft it won't work.

Of course, I AM a self-proclaimed genius, so that might be it.:D
 
Well, then they aren't doing it right.
I've only tried a friction fire twice, with success once, but since I was a child I could get a fire going with one match. No boyscouts involved, no camping trips (been straight up city all my life:)), no accelerant, and, well, no training in it at all.
It just made sense to put things together in a manner where they would burn.
Different sizes of dry stuff with channels for air without so much draft it won't work.

Of course, I AM a self-proclaimed genius, so that might be it.:D

Well, not everyone is a genius, trust me. And you made my point in your first sentence above.
 
Well, not everyone is a genius, trust me. And you made my point in your first sentence above.

Yep. Whenever I've taught people to make fires, they always overlook the basics at first. They want to find and collect these giant ass trees and start a bonfire. Tinder and kindling are always overlooked, when they're the most important. People also seem to flock to green wood.
 
Since we are going against the grain here, who says that a fire is important in the first place? Every 'survival' scenario shows a person with nothing but a knife and a lighter, so it tends to skew the picture.

What if a person had a sleeping bag and a tarp. What if they were clothed properly and had a flashlight and some Clif bars. Who would care about a fire in the least?

Could it be that learning 15 ways to make a fire and how to build 6 kinds of traps and natural cordage is really just wasting time that could have been used for more productive purposes?

Wouldn't a person who knew their limitations and was properly prepared be far ahead of someone who could construct 4 kinds of traps and knew how to make a fire with a bow drill out of nothing?

I was out not long ago on what was supposed to be an easy 4 day trip, and it turned into a situation that could easily have killed us, through some bad decisions and poor circumstances. Getting out of that didn't have the least to do with our knife, survival tin, ability to build fire, or fishing kit.

The safest course may be to prepare for the most likely first... being out after dark, getting lost, getting hurt, losing/forgetting equipment, more so than worrying about the subtle nuances of building small warming fires in cool, wet conditions in the low to mid Pac Northwest.
 
i believe the purpose it that knowledge and ability is important because the best laid plans still can come apart.......a fire may not be needed...but if it is you should be able to do it....the invention (or should i say the ability to make and utilize)of fire was the single biggest evolution of man.....
 
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