Batoning, what is the controversy?

[Don Rearic]

That's the type I had in Western Maryland in the 90s that got lifted out of a campground. Mine had plain black scales on it much like the later Becker's would have from Camillus. Did your's come with those scales?

 

[kgd]

Awesome Becker BigMike!

This thread is drifting so much, I'm starting to feel a little sea sick

 

[Don Rearic]

Thread drift beats misrepresentin' what I've been sayin'.

(Not that you did.)

 

[Thomas Linton]

That is one VERY cool Becker. Sorry the prices have climbed so high on the pin-sheath models.

(The silver spoon should be a cream soup spoon - concave so you can start a fire with it when you achieve a good polish per rksoon.)

 

[Big Mike]

That's the type I had...

Mine had plain black scales on it much like the later Becker's would have from Camillus.

Did your's come with those scales?

The Birdseye Maple scales are original, :thumbup: :thumbup:

…as is the leather lanyard with brass fittings.

Sorry the prices have climbed so high on the pin-sheath models.

Yeah, …for me it’s a double edged sword.

I traded into this knife planning on using it.

Once I found out that it was a bit of a collector’s item (especial with the maple scales), I have been a bit hesitant. :grumpy:




Big Mike

”Scaring the tree huggers.”

Forest & Stream

 

[Don Rearic]

Like lookin' at an old Les Paul.

 

[Marion David Poff]

Well...

I still don't see the controversy....

I understand that there are those who think the practice is abusive, and I guess I would agree with them, with the caveat that anything can be abusive, if done excessively.

And I agree that some people claim that they are batoning, when really they are just whacking the crap out of a knife with a big stick.

I would say that there is such a thing as proper batoning technique. That, knowing the limitations of the tools at hand, and the range of resistance and stress likely given the wood to be split or cut, one can properly apply the technique of batoning to accomplish their goal.

I do think that batoning a bolt is appropriate. When I go out, I often bolt a tree with a saw, and I will then select bolts that fit my tools, to split them, and make the structural members for the my fire lay, then, I will split the rest of the bolts, so that they will more easily take fire.

Have I damaged a knife this way, yes. I bent a Cold Steel Bushman, but it was my fault, the bolt of wood was too big, my mistake. But, the other side of that coin is that I decided I wanted a knife that was capable of batoning that size of wood, and discontinued using the Bushman (though there were other factors involved).

Usually now, I attack the bolts with my Bill Siegle Cutlass, which is sufficiently thick and strong to handle the task.

Improper Batoning Technique would be using The Cutlass's friend to try and split a bolt....

Marion

 

[Myal]

I skipped a bit in this thread

I baton some stuff .. like splitting corrugated roofing iorn lengthwise , batoning a junk knife thru it is a handy way to split the stuff my grandad taught me , when he taught me how to fence and build sheds with just a brace n bit , wire , pliers and hammer n nails . He was kinda bushy old school but he got stuff done , even if it was rough .

that being said , I have a stack of firewood out back at the moment that my splitting maul bounces off of , the grain is so twisted and knotted . I wouldnt dream of trying to baton that stuff my axe wont look at it , the edge folded over , my maul wont touch it , so I split it with me chainsaw ...

I do baton softer woods with straighter grains that are easy to do , just like when I show off pics of extreme curlies , I choose my wood careful , I cant do it on iorn bark , but pine is easy as , usually

to split a spear shaft to mount a spear head native style , batoning makes it a piece of cake when carving a coolamon , its often easier for me to use a knife aided by some tapping with a small batton to get the job done , hammer assisted carving kinda . its got a legit place in bushcraft , in my humble opinion .

I personaly , myself , would be very hesitant to use it as a first option if it was with my only knife , and I was in a remote place / survival situation , where I go tho , smaller wood has never been an issue , if there was wood at all to be had , desert is great for spindly plants that die leaving convenient natural tinder pretty much , and rain ... whats that ?

I have lately used batoning as a test method among others such as driving the blade thru a car panel and making slits in tin cans to make a camp stove and still having the edge retain a sharp enough edge to make fuzz sticks

this is mainly to acomodate people who are more of the new generation of camper , who expect their knives to do stuff that they see in movies , from cutting wire with a neat flick of the wrist ( rambo style ) to opening cans of beans prying boulders etc etc ...

in a moment of urban survival , my bro used a knife I made to cut thru a car hood panel to get to and cut the battery cables on a wreck that was smoking up and had fuel spraying out , and a guy stuck in the wreck pinned really good .. he didnt baton in that instance that I know of , just really abused the crud out of the blade doing a can opener job on the car , but the knife took it and kept its edge to boot ( hi speed steel ala starret pwr hacksaw blade is good stuff )

If I wasnt allowing for people to do stuff as baton to the knives I make , I duno that in that case , that guys life woulda been saved .

nuff from me tho , back to the discussion

 

[mcjhrobinson]

dont want to beat a dead horse but this thread is interesting....it basically the particulars of a situation and basic common sense. but heres how i select my tough-A** go to knife (and i only need one)

i like to take the CRAZIEST scenario a knife could be in and say "would this knife handle it?" if yes then thats the knife i will buy (i do own that knife)....do i think it will ever happen, hopefully no. but at least i know i have one hardcore built knife.


id like to try race someone making 2" kindling....baton vs hatchet

 

[SouthernCross]

id like to try race someone making 2" kindling....baton vs hatchet

At the end of the vid you can see the pile of kindling that took 1 minute 44 seconds with a hatchet.

[youtube]Kn-cyXPAjzg[/youtube]

How does that compare?


Kind regards
Mick

 

[Skimo]

Benchmade LFK, how did it handle? I'm about to buy one.

I'm also about to buy a Rat 7, so the LFK probably won't be used to baton.

When I was a kid, without ever reading about batoning I used my knife to do it, it seemed rather instinctual, along with using another piece of wood used as a wedge. I'm pro batoning, but I'm also pro common sense, and probably wouldn't use a knife if I felt the wood was too thick or the knife to weak.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I'm also about to buy a Rat 7, so the LFK probably won't be used to baton.

Go for an RC-6, not a RAT-7.

 

[mcjhrobinson]

all that was done in about 3-4mins with my ~4" knife....weighs way less than a hatchet and is easier to carry.....and it still works like a champ...so i think it compares quite well....my bowie is much more efficient than that knife pictured and comparable in weight to the hatchet in that video.

dont get me wrong i like hatchets and axes but i also like to pack very light. im actually looking at one of brians penobscot bay mod'd ones right now! and the fort turner norsehawk

 

[Myal]

kind of batoning

before I got the fire wood ready , I got the stove ready

just a roughy knife I knocked out in my back yard

 

[Skimo]

Go for an RC-6, not a RAT-7.

It's all about the money (lack thereof) and buying from friends.

I get a new-to-me knife, they get spending money to find something more interesting, they also get free sharpening for their knives

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Under those circumstances I guess we can let it slide.

But just this once!





Seriously though, enjoy it. It's still a great knife.

 

[coloradowildman]

This is the case (above) in the heavily dry timbered *high desert* part of Oregon that I live in. 2/3's of Oregon is considered 'high desert'...much to the surprise of many. We only get about 12" of rain annually in this part of the state. However, in the Oregon Coast Mountain Range, considered 'rain forest', things are much, much different. It can rain over there for weeks on end and wet almost everything to its core. Having backpacked, teaching wilderness survival skills, played and worked in the wet and damp misty coastal mountains countless times, I can tell you that if you don't split wood, you don't have heat...period. Sticks and twigs don't burn unless added to an already healthy fire. If you don't have an axe, your knife is the next best thing in getting down into some dry wood. I don't carry an axe or chainsaw when backpacking and my knife combined with a baton has provided many a good warming fire for the chilly bones. There is a place for the baton - in the right or wrong environment - depending on your perspective and needs at the moment.

I've had the exact same experience when it gets wet here in the Rockies, as nothing seems to catch fire unless one packs lots of fire starting gel (too heavy) or one splits wood. I just went out recently where it was raining for 3 days and in the high 30s (June in the Rockies- 90 degrees one day, 20s and 30s with rain or snow the next!) and everything was soaked and nothing round would catch fire with conventional means. I had to use a folding saw to cut a small log and a Cold Steel Kukri Machete to split it. I used the dry inner wood for everything from tinder to kindling and then for the main wood. The fire started even in the cold rain using this technique.

No offense but folks that are "fair weather" outdoorsmen have no idea what they could really face if caught in a bad situation in the wilderness. Fires are incredibly hard to start in wet weather, even if you have good tinder and a lighter.

 

[oldpinecricker]

I've had the exact same experience when it gets wet here in the Rockies, as nothing seems to catch fire unless one packs lots of fire starting gel (too heavy) or one splits wood. I just went out recently where it was raining for 3 days and in the high 30s (June in the Rockies- 90 degrees one day, 20s and 30s with rain or snow the next!) and everything was soaked and nothing round would catch fire with conventional means. I had to use a folding saw to cut a small log and a Cold Steel Kukri Machete to split it. I used the dry inner wood for everything from tinder to kindling and then for the main wood. The fire started even in the cold rain using this technique.

No offense but folks that are "fair weather" outdoorsmen have no idea what they could really face if caught in a bad situation in the wilderness. Fires are incredibly hard to start in wet weather, even if you have good tinder and a lighter.

+1, Great post. I'm a huge believer in splitting wood, especially if one can find small dead standing wood.

 

[CanDo]

Batoning all the way! I hate weight and don't carry any axes or other big tools. My Aurora or CS Recon 1 are my only "heavy items" (heavy for what they are, that is), and I use them to split the kindling to get the fire going. Neither will break. It's just as fast as any other method and requires less equipment. If I were car camping, a khukuri or axe would be fun to bring, but 99% of my trips, I'm on foot.

 

[kgd]

Yep I agree. Logs don't really burn very good as a general rule unless you have a really hot fire. Splitting them down is the best way to increase heat to get you to the log burning stage.

BTW, I've been batoning ash hardwood with my newly acquired old hickory butcher for about 2 weeks now. All this talk about needing knives of certain spec to baton is useless. Any full tang knife, even $14 ones that are 0.085" thick do it very nicely!