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Batoning
- Thread starter James w
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Get an ESEE 6, not the 5. I much prefer the BK2 to the 5 anyway, but IMO the 6 is the better woods knife out of them all.
If you pair a 6 with an Izula, you've got a lot of cases covered right there.
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This is why I hate splitting with a hatchet. Too slow and clumsy. With my knife it literally takes half the time or less to split out kindling. "Use the right tool for the job" as they say.
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Batoning is a skill you may never need to use. But if you need to baton, you even more rarely would need to half large rounds of wood. Baton smaller pieces or can take off smaller slices from the edge. In such application, a full-tang 5.5" blade will work. http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2013/06/how-to-baton-firewood-with-a-butter-knife-2475634.html
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Oh yes. Swedge is not optimal.
As for thin, lots of videos show batoning with MORAs. Less room for error to be sure.
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Exactly. There's really no need to hammer away right into the middle. Splitting off slices one by one or doing so to create a wedge are far more efficient ways to go about it.
From merriam websters: Skill : the ability to do something that comes from training, experience, or practice.
Can't really say I belive it takes a whole lot of training.
I've always loved that butter knife vid. Couldn't agree more.
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- Apr 28, 2015
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So on the constant argument that knives are not made for batoning I would like to discuss the Froe. The Froe is a large, sharpened forged steel bar with an eye for a perpendicular wood handle that was meant to baton through wood. It was mostly used for wooden slats/shingles, but could be used for larger work. Now this blade was forged like an axe head, so it wasn't a super steel and doesn't come near today's knife blade durability. Of COURSE knives (certain ones) are intended also for batoning! Find one in good steel and at least 6 inches (personal preference) and don't try to baton a log in half but edge piece by edge piece and you will be fine. You can actually baton with a butter knife but I wouldn't bet my survival on it lasting, lol...
Although I don't think most here would have as much fun with the froe as they would their own favorite capable knife. Or at least packing it out that is
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A froe would be heat treated for toughness - more like an ax than a knife. It would be far more durable than a knife and far more idiot-proof. It is made to twist/pry in the cut to break off the work - something to avoid with a knife.
A place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froe
A place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froe
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True, and an axe will always be the better tool for the job. That does not mean that a knife is not a great all around tool when weight is a concern for carry. Like all multiple use tools it is not perfectly ideal, but does the job adequately and should be recognized as more than capable in regards to batoning...
I feel like there is a big difference between "splitting wood" (big rounds into firewood), which is what I'd do at a winter cabin, and batoning wood for a campfire (breaking into a ~2-4in log/stick or two to get a campfire or stove going).
For splitting wood, I will say all day every day that an axe (or maul, or... gas powered splitter) is the right tool without question. For the one or two sticks/logs that you'd "need" to split for a campfire/stove I have I have no problem not bringing a hatchet, and using a knife.
Personally I find that big knives and hatchets are almost the same in terms of chopping power, and ability to split wood. Different techniques, different preferences, but I feel that they are in the same category/"weight class". So if you want to carry a hatchet because thats what you're more comfortable with, go for it. If you're better/more comfortable with knives, more power to you. Just make sure that the knife is designed with that task in mind.
For splitting wood, I will say all day every day that an axe (or maul, or... gas powered splitter) is the right tool without question. For the one or two sticks/logs that you'd "need" to split for a campfire/stove I have I have no problem not bringing a hatchet, and using a knife.
Personally I find that big knives and hatchets are almost the same in terms of chopping power, and ability to split wood. Different techniques, different preferences, but I feel that they are in the same category/"weight class". So if you want to carry a hatchet because thats what you're more comfortable with, go for it. If you're better/more comfortable with knives, more power to you. Just make sure that the knife is designed with that task in mind.
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ocnLogan, I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. I too put hatchets and large knives in the same category and find their performance simalar. I prefer large knives over a hatchet. For me, they are safer. A while back, I had to take a basic camping/wildlife course for my job. We were instructed to bring a hatchet to the class. It was a nightmare, a disaster waiting to happen. Hatchets are just to close to the body with all the weight to one end. People were almost striking themselves in the head while pulling the axe back to strike. Glancing blows were barely missing legs. The instructed forced everyone to baton with their hatchet. While I love my GB small forest axe and use it often, that's the shortest I'll go in an axe.
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The irony in this post is hilarious. The "right tool for the job" in regards to splitting would in fact be an axe or hatchet. And if you're going off that video as anywhere near the proper method for splitting wood with a hatchet then I highly suggest you watch a video with someone that actually knows how to use one.This is why I hate splitting with a hatchet. Too slow and clumsy. With my knife it literally takes half the time or less to split out kindling. "Use the right tool for the job" as they say.
EricV
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Well if we're sharing hatchet stories, I've got many from my time in the Scouts in a troop that was very much not fixed blade friendly for some reason.
Senior patrol campout in the late Fall light snow nothing crazy, 9 boys all 15-18 years old out away from the rest of the troop as was our normal practice for the older guys a few times a year.
Most of us are preparing food, a few guys were cutting up a downed tree for firewood, and one guy was starting the cooking fire. We hear a shout and everyone looks around, turns out the guy starting the cooking fire figured he'd split up some 4" pieces into kindling rather than go collect branches since most everything was damp. Well as none of us were allowed anything bigger than a SAK really he figured he'd use a hatchet which was really about the only option available.
Rather than place the hatchet on the cut end and wack the poll with a branch, he (with his genius teenage brain) thought he'd hold the 4" round and just lightly swing the hatchet into the wood to get it started. He was wearing gloves so what could possibly go wrong?
Well the wood he was splitting was what we hiked in with as we didn't want to chance a cold dinner, so it was really dry and he apparently was much stronger than he was mentally awake. He tapped it with the hatchet, broke up the wood instantly and proceeded to go right into his hand on the meaty part between the thumb and index finger. Bandaged him up and then he had a very unpleasant car ride to the ER 40 minutes away while being chewed out by the Scout Master.
Later that Winter I was the idiot and tried splitting a frozen log with probably the same hatchet. It skipped off the log and because I was standing like an idiot it went into my knee and left a fun reminder to think before doing something every time I wear shorts. Hatchets are great, they teach people many very important life lessons.
Man do I wish we'd been allowed fixed blades, there are so many stories like that and almost all stupidity and hatchets, rarely any other tool.
Senior patrol campout in the late Fall light snow nothing crazy, 9 boys all 15-18 years old out away from the rest of the troop as was our normal practice for the older guys a few times a year.
Most of us are preparing food, a few guys were cutting up a downed tree for firewood, and one guy was starting the cooking fire. We hear a shout and everyone looks around, turns out the guy starting the cooking fire figured he'd split up some 4" pieces into kindling rather than go collect branches since most everything was damp. Well as none of us were allowed anything bigger than a SAK really he figured he'd use a hatchet which was really about the only option available.
Rather than place the hatchet on the cut end and wack the poll with a branch, he (with his genius teenage brain) thought he'd hold the 4" round and just lightly swing the hatchet into the wood to get it started. He was wearing gloves so what could possibly go wrong?
Well the wood he was splitting was what we hiked in with as we didn't want to chance a cold dinner, so it was really dry and he apparently was much stronger than he was mentally awake. He tapped it with the hatchet, broke up the wood instantly and proceeded to go right into his hand on the meaty part between the thumb and index finger. Bandaged him up and then he had a very unpleasant car ride to the ER 40 minutes away while being chewed out by the Scout Master.
Later that Winter I was the idiot and tried splitting a frozen log with probably the same hatchet. It skipped off the log and because I was standing like an idiot it went into my knee and left a fun reminder to think before doing something every time I wear shorts. Hatchets are great, they teach people many very important life lessons.
Man do I wish we'd been allowed fixed blades, there are so many stories like that and almost all stupidity and hatchets, rarely any other tool.
The real irony is read the story under your post. My question is do you pack a sturdy flat surface to stand wood on to split while on over night hikes? And how do you get your logs and branches to stand on their own for splitting? Or do you hold it with the off hand and swing away?
You can baton on any surface, in limited space, without a sturdy level splitting surface and logs that won't stand on their own anywhere on any trail. I'm not seeing how a hatchet would be the proper tool. If you could be so kind to show us a hiker on a hike trip doing it proper that would be awesome.
I agree. I think the SFA/boys axe is about as short as I could go as well. And like you, I prefer larger knives for hatchet type work, likely because I find them easier to control, and more multipurpose. Then again, I have already stated I'm not the best with hatchets, and when I go camping I don't really split all that much wood. Maybe if I needed to process more wood (than just to start a fire), I'd change my tune.
The Ray Mears video about how to properly use an Axe/Hatchet I think should be required viewing before anyone attempts to use one. The problem with the hatchets are just what you describe (mostly because people are unfamiliar with how to use them). Once I was camping with a friend who was standing and chopping with his little gerber hatchet when a glancing blow hit him square in the shin. Luckily it wasn't "too" bad, but since that day I always chop with a short handled tool like that kneeling down.
Anyway, batoning is something I do, and feel that if the knife was designed with it in mind, and you make sensible choices when selecting which sizes/species/sections to baton that it is totally fine for campfires and the like. But changing even one of those parameters can change things enough that it can become a foolish thing to do (wrong type of knife with wrong design/steel/hardness, ironwood, giant knots, giant round, etc).
Why on earth would you need to pack a flat surface with you? There are several ways to split wood without having it standing upright and if I had a video camera I would be more than happy to educate you on how myself. In the meantime, read anything by Kochanski, Sears, Kephart, Mears, and you will learn many different methods of processing wood with an axe or hatchet. If you insist on videos, there are several out there as well. IA Woodsman, Mears, Robinet, MCQ Bushcraft, Canterbury, are just some of many on YouTube that will show you various effective techniques on this.
Don't need a video. I've done it with a hatchet and a knife. Knife is much more precise, much easier and a lot more safe. Does it quicker too. If someone wants to get fancy they can lay a small log on its side and do the same thing with a knife. Bonus is the knife will perform multiple tasks on top of that the hatchet will not. Packs lighter with less awkward bulk.
There might be a slight advantage to a hatchet if I drive up and park next to my camping spot. Is that what you are talking about?