Batoning

Boris74 said:
The real irony is read the story under your post. My question is do you pack a sturdy flat surface to stand wood on to split while on over night hikes? And how do you get your logs and branches to stand on their own for splitting? Or do you hold it with the off hand and swing away?

You can baton on any surface, in limited space, without a sturdy level splitting surface and logs that won't stand on their own anywhere on any trail. I'm not seeing how a hatchet would be the proper tool. If you could be so kind to show us a hiker on a hike trip doing it proper that would be awesome.
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Maybe someone should tell Ray Mears he's doing it wrong then.
[video]https://youtu.be/X5W6r5U7yBE?t=143[/video]

Ya'll can keep your knives as close to femoral as you wish :)
 
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Boris74 said:
There might be a slight advantage to a hatchet if I drive up and park next to my camping spot. Is that what you are talking about?
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No. Every outdoorsman I mentioned in my previous post are not car campers and in fact they are often very deep in the bush. Using a knife and batoning through wood may be faster and easier for you, but for someone who knows how to really use an axe or hatchet it is not, which is precisely why they (such as the people mentioned above) prefer an axe/hatchet over a knife to process wood. But again, if using a knife is easier and safer for you personally then please continue to do so as I would not want to see you or anyone else here hurt themselves. Using an axe proficiently and safely does take considerably more skill.
 
B34NS said:
Maybe someone should tell Ray Mears he's doing it wrong then.
[video]https://youtu.be/X5W6r5U7yBE?t=143[/video]

Ya'll can keep your knives as close to femoral as you wish :)
Click to expand...

Like I said. You can do it that way with a knife. That wood he's using looks a good bit less dense than my local choices too. Nothing around me splits that easy axe or not. I also pointed out the chopping block, I want to see the part of video where he packed in that chopping block in.

Both answers are right. Wood can be split with a hatchet or axe. It can be split with a knife too. One packs easier, less bulk, is lighter and can split under more adverse conditions than the other. People who pack and hump in their equipment who will be splitting under unknown conditions prefer easier to pack more versatile tools to take along. That's the part you guys aren't getting. I'm not talking about splitting wood out back behind the shed. I'm talking multiple nights multiple camps hiking fire and shelter wood prep.
 
Like nearly everything on this forum this is all opinion stuff, there is no right or wrong answer.
 
jonnyt16 said:
No. Every outdoorsman I mentioned in my previous post are not car campers and in fact they are often very deep in the bush. Using a knife and batoning through wood may be faster and easier for you, but for someone who knows how to really use an axe or hatchet it is not, which is precisely why they (such as the people mentioned above) prefer an axe/hatchet over a knife to process wood. But again, if using a knife is easier and safer for you personally then please continue to do so as I would not want to see you or anyone else here hurt themselves. Using an axe proficiently and safely does take considerably more skill.
Click to expand...

I have an axe. It stays in a shed and mostly in the back of the truck. I know how to use it. Just because I know how to use it, is not a motivating factor to pack it on a multi night hike. It comes down to I know how to use a knife, I know how to use an axe, I know how to pack lighter. I'm not going to pack a heavier bulkier tool (that still requires the packing of a knife) solely based on the I know how to use it factor. To me it sounds like they pack an axe because they don't know how to baton. If they did and we're going on a multi night multi camp hike, they'd opt for less bulk and weight when proper batoning skills have been learned. It's not even a matter of opinion to me. It's more about packing properly for the trip, nothing more.
 
Boris74 said:
Like I said. You can do it that way with a knife. That wood he's using looks a good bit less dense than my local choices too. Nothing around me splits that easy axe or not. I also pointed out the chopping block, I want to see the part of video where he packed in that chopping block in.

Both answers are right. Wood can be split with a hatchet or axe. It can be split with a knife too. One packs easier, less bulk, is lighter and can split under more adverse conditions than the other. People who pack and hump in their equipment who will be splitting under unknown conditions prefer easier to pack more versatile tools to take along. That's the part you guys aren't getting. I'm not talking about splitting wood out back behind the shed. I'm talking multiple nights multiple camps hiking fire and shelter wood prep.
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Was more just sharing the technique for those with wearniness of axes or hatchets who may not have seen or know it.

Judging by the chestnut limbs felled in the background and in other videos of the same series, I'd be left to assume it was already there, ready for demonstration purposes. He is a TV guy afterall :D

I hear ya though, some places out here have dense junipers that'd just roll an axe, and knife for that matter too. Those places its easier to just have a different kind of fire prep altogether.

In most of the woods I frequent for longer periods of time or multiple camps, the axe comes with for other reasons than splitting wood, otherwise it can just stay in the truck while I'm out and don't need it (no burn days etc). Also depends on if I'm hunting, fishing, or just on a hikethrough trip. Different environments are just as varied as everyone's own personal style for enjoying the outdoors, which means each of us must adapt for what works best for us in our areas. I won't be carrying around a 5LB felling axe, but a 2.2lb axe is nothing. Some knives suggested here weigh pretty darn close to that. I personally don't care what technique people use as long as it's safe, and fun, and if it's battoning, just not with my knife :) Why would I go find 3 pieces of wood just to do a task that my empty hand can do throwing a log on the fire. I just don't let wood prep take over my time for whiskey prep
gSzE8YQ.jpg


Other than that, our very own joe flowers has some good tips on splitting without a woodblock. An open mind is a learning one.
@12:26
[video=youtube;KDp2oPxNV6g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDp2oPxNV6g[/video]
 
Boris74 said:
I have an axe. It stays in a shed and mostly in the back of the truck. I know how to use it. Just because I know how to use it, is not a motivating factor to pack it on a multi night hike. It comes down to I know how to use a knife, I know how to use an axe, I know how to pack lighter. I'm not going to pack a heavier bulkier tool (that still requires the packing of a knife) solely based on the I know how to use it factor. To me it sounds like they pack an axe because they don't know how to baton. If they did and we're going on a multi night multi camp hike, they'd opt for less bulk and weight when proper batoning skills have been learned. It's not even a matter of opinion to me. It's more about packing properly for the trip, nothing more.
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I'm quite sure that they (Mears, Canterbury, Kochanski, etc) know how to baton. I know Mr Canterbury does (he has videos of it on youtube for his outdoor school), and I'd be hard pressed to believe that Ray or Moors could have somehow escaped "learning" it given that outdoor skills/primitive living/bushcraft is their profession.

Another thing to consider with them is that they're type of "camping" is likely very different than what many of us do (at least assuming their campouts are like what they've filmed, which may be a stretch :p). I know that if I was needing to use a fire to keep warm through a cold winters night in the mountains, I'd much rather have an axe than my BK9. But for my "make a fire because its fun and because it warms my food" type of camping, my BK9 is more than capable.

I'd also like to point out that some people are quite good at "feathersticking" with their axes and hatchets. Some peoples skill there is astounding to me.

B34NS said:
Was more just sharing the technique for those with wearniness of axes or hatchets who may not have seen or know it.

Judging by the chestnut limbs felled in the background and in other videos of the same series, I'd be left to assume it was already there, ready for demonstration purposes. He is a TV guy afterall :D

I hear ya though, some places out here have dense junipers that'd just roll an axe, and knife for that matter too. Those places its easier to just have a different kind of fire prep altogether.

In most of the woods I frequent for longer periods of time or multiple camps, the axe comes with for other reasons than splitting wood, otherwise it can just stay in the truck while I'm out and don't need it (no burn days etc). Also depends on if I'm hunting, fishing, or just on a hikethrough trip. Different environments are just as varied as everyone's own personal style for enjoying the outdoors, which means each of us must adapt for what works best for us in our areas. I won't be carrying around a 5LB felling axe, but a 2.2lb axe is nothing. Some knives suggested here weigh pretty darn close to that. I personally don't care what technique people use as long as it's safe, and fun, and if it's battoning, just not with my knife :) Why would I go find 3 pieces of wood just to do a task that my empty hand can do throwing a log on the fire. I just don't let wood prep take over my time for whiskey prep
gSzE8YQ.jpg


Other than that, our very own joe flowers has some good tips on splitting without a woodblock. An open mind is a learning one.
@12:26
[video=youtube;KDp2oPxNV6g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDp2oPxNV6g[/video]
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links, I'll be sure to watch those. As I've said, I want to get better with my axe skills (not hard, I basically have none :p) and these look great to help them along :).

And I was going to mention something similar. Most people that bring axes bring them instead of a larger blade (so the weight difference isn't as large), and oftentimes their fixed blade (main blade) is lighter as well. The bulk/packing "issue" is a bit more real, but nothing that is really going to cause problems most of the time.
 
It seems pretentious to tell people what they should use their blade to do. With all today's reality "survivor" shows batoning a knife seems perfectly reasonable especially if your a backpacker or day hiker and don't want to carry an axe or hatchet. With today's super steels and 1/4" pry-bar knives it shouldn't hurt anything. The I don't do it so you shouldn't either is a twat thing to say.
 
Boris74 said:
I have an axe. It stays in a shed and mostly in the back of the truck. I know how to use it. Just because I know how to use it, is not a motivating factor to pack it on a multi night hike. It comes down to I know how to use a knife, I know how to use an axe, I know how to pack lighter. I'm not going to pack a heavier bulkier tool (that still requires the packing of a knife) solely based on the I know how to use it factor. To me it sounds like they pack an axe because they don't know how to baton. If they did and we're going on a multi night multi camp hike, they'd opt for less bulk and weight when proper batoning skills have been learned. It's not even a matter of opinion to me. It's more about packing properly for the trip, nothing more.
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You're right. Kochanski, Mears, and Canterbury pack an axe because they don't know how to baton. I stand corrected.
 
Watch that video at 11 minutes. I challenge any of you to go make a video of yourself doing that right now, or have someone take some stills of you doing it in action.

Honest challenge folks. I am curious who will be cool and level headed enough to gather their fingers before they leave for the ER.
 
I think batoning is just fun, i mean, we are knife people...

my dad only uses a small hatchet for wood processing when we did our long camps, and only brought kitchen knife to cut food for meals.
However he was surprised a knife could split a log, he said back in the day they would wedge wood instead of a knife.
Whatever works though.
If it's easier to split wood with an axe or hatchet, let it be. If it's easier to split wood with a big knife, go for it.
 
So who teaches batoning?

• Ray Mears - page23 of 'Bushcraft - An Inspirational Guide to Surviving the Wilderness'
• Chris Janowsky (R.I.P.)
• Mors Kochanski https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uvlmsH0IFT4 4:50 mins ->
• Ron Hood (R.I.P.)
• Les Stroud (as per his new book)
• Jeff Randall (as per page 77, November 2000, Tactical Knives
• George Jasper - Six ways in & 12 ways out (USRSOG page 110)
• Cody Lundin (as per page 175 of 98.6)
• Christopher Nyerges
• Dave Canterbury https://youtu.be/7m7YFiePmRY
• Alan Halcon
 
For kindling, using my BK11 works pretty nicely.

IMG_5707_zpsmdcasjjh.jpg


If you're car camping or just splitting logs for firewood on the side of the house, an axe or hatchet might be a wiser choice.
 
Boris74 said:
The real irony is read the story under your post. My question is do you pack a sturdy flat surface to stand wood on to split while on over night hikes? And how do you get your logs and branches to stand on their own for splitting? Or do you hold it with the off hand and swing away?

You can baton on any surface, in limited space, without a sturdy level splitting surface and logs that won't stand on their own anywhere on any trail. I'm not seeing how a hatchet would be the proper tool. If you could be so kind to show us a hiker on a hike trip doing it proper that would be awesome.
Click to expand...
You say you know how to use an axe, however, your post above leads me to believe otherwise. Not knowing that it is possible to split wood with an axe without a chopping block or flat surface, or not understanding how a hatchet is a proper tool for splitting wood tells me that you don't have much experience with one. You then asked for videos that demonstrate how and I gave you several references. Others here posted videos for you as well, but it seems like for one reason or another you became a little irritated by that and I'm not sure why.

Boris74 said:
I'm talking about you ;)
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I used to be big on batoning with my knife actually (and still do on occasion) but once I started practicing with axes and hatchets I realized that I could split wood much faster and efficiently. It then also allowed me to get away with carrying a smaller, thinner knife which I could use to carve, clean fish, and slice salami much easier than a big blade. But again, being proficient and safe with an axe does take a bit more skill so I understand your reluctance to bring one along.
 
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