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BBC: Scotland Police Utilizing Web To Hunt for Knives
- Thread starter kaiservontexas
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- Dec 8, 2004
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Greater,
Your multiple posts on the same question notwithstanding--they are far off topic and should be directed to the Political Forum.
The topic is the validity of British law enforcement using photos and videos posted on the web to pursue potential criminals.
While defending the practice, Lawmandan made a claim that American citizens are being tortured by the US Government, which I rejected as doubtful, unproven, and at any rate irrelevent (to me) to the legitimacy of the British practice.
I expect that political rants of any sort will result in this thread being locked or moved.
Your multiple posts on the same question notwithstanding--they are far off topic and should be directed to the Political Forum.
The topic is the validity of British law enforcement using photos and videos posted on the web to pursue potential criminals.
While defending the practice, Lawmandan made a claim that American citizens are being tortured by the US Government, which I rejected as doubtful, unproven, and at any rate irrelevent (to me) to the legitimacy of the British practice.
I expect that political rants of any sort will result in this thread being locked or moved.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
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- 3,355
Trying to yank this thread back on topic...I asked because I specifically did not want to make an assumption about the scope of Tom's statement. It struck me as far too broad, and to make that point my response was fashioned so as to point out the sort of innocuous things that could be included in that spectrum. Your interpretation of his statement may be right, it may not. Either way, rather than arguing over what you think I should or should not find obvious, I'm choosing to wait to hear from Tom himself before pursuing the point any further.
The topic is the validity of British law enforcement using photos and videos posted on the web to pursue potential criminals.
That is a hard one to answer as law enforcement officers they are required to investigate any potential criminal acts. This would include images over the internet of known people displaying these now illegal items for whatever purposes.
One question I have is what will happen to these people and what of the people who posted these images before these items were illegal.
Short of banning all cutlery including the average kitchen carving knife which can be much more deadly than many average 3 to 4 inch bladed folding knives, I can't possibly see much logic behind the new laws. I see this as a repeat of the gang hysteria that got switchblades banned in the US.
People will be targeted not because a folder is any more lethal than any other knife but merely because it's style and looks just happen to be popular among a small (compared to the law abiding populace that likes them also) group a criminals who misuse them.
How to control this crime is not an easy question for me to answer. Perhaps if the knife in question has not been used in a crime the law should not concern itself with it if it's in the privacy of one's home
That is a hard one to answer as law enforcement officers they are required to investigate any potential criminal acts. This would include images over the internet of known people displaying these now illegal items for whatever purposes.
One question I have is what will happen to these people and what of the people who posted these images before these items were illegal.
Short of banning all cutlery including the average kitchen carving knife which can be much more deadly than many average 3 to 4 inch bladed folding knives, I can't possibly see much logic behind the new laws. I see this as a repeat of the gang hysteria that got switchblades banned in the US.
People will be targeted not because a folder is any more lethal than any other knife but merely because it's style and looks just happen to be popular among a small (compared to the law abiding populace that likes them also) group a criminals who misuse them.
How to control this crime is not an easy question for me to answer. Perhaps if the knife in question has not been used in a crime the law should not concern itself with it if it's in the privacy of one's home
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- Dec 1, 2006
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- 23
I've posted a few pictures of myself with my guns/knives on the internet. If they are legal I don't see how you have anything to fear from the internet police. Those pictures have been up for years too and they're not menacing in any way. People aren't stupid for wanting to post pictures of themselves doing things they like to do, like go to the range etc. That being said it is probably a bad idea to post pics/vids of you doing illegal things or holding illegal objects. I do reviews of knives for Youtube and I have shown my guns in those videos, am I stupid?
Argue about what you should be allowed to carry if you wish but when the law gains too much ability to regulate and snoop into your home due to multiple restrictions and laws suddenly dumped on the general populace well things then start to get Orwelian.
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- Aug 2, 2004
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- 18,850
This (as already mentioned) is more about idiots posting pictures of them selves with knives in a unesesary manner, not people posting pics of a collection on a blog for eg.
I dont know if the site is still around but go to www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk for a look at the sort of stuff "they" are talking about.
edit: seems the site has been perged since the last time I saw it
I dont know if the site is still around but go to www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk for a look at the sort of stuff "they" are talking about.
edit: seems the site has been perged since the last time I saw it
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- May 18, 2005
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No, the point is that the items are not illegal to own.
If the items were illegal, then they would not just send an officer to harass the person. . . jackbooted cops would kick the door in and arrest them at gun point.
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most of the people getting targeted by this initiative are teenagers or young adults. alot of the photos are posed shots, trying to look "well ard innit" (yes, some of them realy do speak like that! 
)
the firearms example given erlier in the thread is a good one. say you have two people. one is a "wannabe gangsta" and the other is a legitmate shotgun user, who holds his own shotgun lisence, and has a shotgun (which would have to be on his parents shotgun lisence, but he would be able to use it so long as there was a person over the age of 18 present)
are these two people likely to pose with said shotgun in the same way?
our wannabe gangsta is likely to pose with the shotgun pointed at the camera, or in an aparently ready state (breach closed ect) pointing at the ceiling. he want's to look dangerous.
meanwhile our hunter is more likely to have photos with the gun safely broken (so not in a ready state), and with the barrel pointed at the ground, because they would know about weapon saftey. for him it's a sporting tool, same as a tennis player may show of his fancy new racket, or an angler thier new rod. also there may well be other photo's of them in hunting gear, with others, during hunting trips.
point is that they don't just look at the fact the photo has a knife in it (otherwise large numbers of cookery students, aprentice butchers ect would be in the proverbial pile of brown smelly stuff) they would also look at the context the photo is shown in (so this site would be a bit dodgy, as it includes the use of knives as weapons, while sites such as bushcraft uk, and other outdoors sites would be a more or less fine), and the context within the picture that the knife (or gun, baseball bat ect) are shown. also the background of the owner.
either way if the person is only shown in their bedroom or whatever, then the police can only confiscate it by permission of either the owner, in the case of over 18's, or the owners parent, in the case of under 18's
) the firearms example given erlier in the thread is a good one. say you have two people. one is a "wannabe gangsta" and the other is a legitmate shotgun user, who holds his own shotgun lisence, and has a shotgun (which would have to be on his parents shotgun lisence, but he would be able to use it so long as there was a person over the age of 18 present)
are these two people likely to pose with said shotgun in the same way?
our wannabe gangsta is likely to pose with the shotgun pointed at the camera, or in an aparently ready state (breach closed ect) pointing at the ceiling. he want's to look dangerous.
meanwhile our hunter is more likely to have photos with the gun safely broken (so not in a ready state), and with the barrel pointed at the ground, because they would know about weapon saftey. for him it's a sporting tool, same as a tennis player may show of his fancy new racket, or an angler thier new rod. also there may well be other photo's of them in hunting gear, with others, during hunting trips.
point is that they don't just look at the fact the photo has a knife in it (otherwise large numbers of cookery students, aprentice butchers ect would be in the proverbial pile of brown smelly stuff) they would also look at the context the photo is shown in (so this site would be a bit dodgy, as it includes the use of knives as weapons, while sites such as bushcraft uk, and other outdoors sites would be a more or less fine), and the context within the picture that the knife (or gun, baseball bat ect) are shown. also the background of the owner.
either way if the person is only shown in their bedroom or whatever, then the police can only confiscate it by permission of either the owner, in the case of over 18's, or the owners parent, in the case of under 18's
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almost right.
I'm fairly sure we don't have enough armed officers available to arrest them at gun point. cept in northen ireland where every officer carries. maybe if we called in the army?
also I don't think that police go for jackboots anymore, they find they restrict their mobility somewhat.
No, the point is that the items are not illegal to own.
Oh that changes things paying a visit is intrusive this reminds me of a program in Washing DC where they wanted people to give the police permission to search their homes at will.
In this case it seems that their approach is more subtle they are probably trying to talk their way into their house to fish. That would be my guess.
That is not good
Oh that changes things paying a visit is intrusive this reminds me of a program in Washing DC where they wanted people to give the police permission to search their homes at will.
In this case it seems that their approach is more subtle they are probably trying to talk their way into their house to fish. That would be my guess.
That is not good
"I'm fairly sure we don't have enough armed officers available to arrest them at gun point."
No I suppose they will just throw you and your family face down on the floor while they search your living quarters and give anyone who gets to rowdy a beat down with their trudgeons
No I suppose they will just throw you and your family face down on the floor while they search your living quarters and give anyone who gets to rowdy a beat down with their trudgeons
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With respect, my experience with both firearms and knives confiscation would say differently.
I know of a very substantial number of illegal confiscations, and the reason for this is the average Officer has no idea of what constitutes an illegal firearm or knife.
Can probably dredge up a few accounts of such instances from forums, but most are firearms examples.
People are generally successful at recovering the items, however the process generally takes months, and the Police are famous for returning them damaged.
One chap I know slightly had armed Police turn up at 2AM at his house because he had sent an email request for more info on a blank-firing MP5K which Police discovered being marketed on a unrelated reason. What happened was the bloke ended up on a mailing list about future products, so they decided to go in heavy anyway despite no record of purchase.
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almost right.
I'm fairly sure we don't have enough armed officers available to arrest them at gun point. cept in northen ireland where every officer carries. maybe if we called in the army?
also I don't think that police go for jackboots anymore, they find they restrict their mobility somewhat.
"Jackbooted" is an adjective meaning "Ruthlessly and violently oppressive."
Policemen and women may be human and they may be nice people but one has to keep in mind that their job is enforcing whether it may seem right or wrong to you that is their job.
Inviting a police officer who you do not know into your home is just not wise and serves no good purpose at all. However he or she may behave in front of you (ie acting like your best friend from preschool.) They are there to fish and conduct business and they mean business.
If you have no business with them don't allow them.
Inviting a police officer who you do not know into your home is just not wise and serves no good purpose at all. However he or she may behave in front of you (ie acting like your best friend from preschool.) They are there to fish and conduct business and they mean business.
If you have no business with them don't allow them.
If owning the knives they saw you with in your webcam or what ever it be are not illegal to own in your home the police do not have any reason to "stop by and pay a visit."
Police generally have good intelligence on gangs and organizations of the like knowing that you are not associated with them is something they would not have much difficulty finding out so if they are paying you a visit and you are not a criminal beware they are probably fishing for something they can use against you to make you a criminal, even though you may not be one in spirit.
Police generally have good intelligence on gangs and organizations of the like knowing that you are not associated with them is something they would not have much difficulty finding out so if they are paying you a visit and you are not a criminal beware they are probably fishing for something they can use against you to make you a criminal, even though you may not be one in spirit.