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By the way - the seller agreed to the terms and accepted the buyer's offer to buy. He sent him PP info, accepting the offer of $260.00. There was a contract of sale IMO.
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bdowens - it all worked out in the end
- Thread starter A-MAC
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SECTION 3 - Rules for Everyone -
If any rules seem contradictory, the more stringent rules apply. Whenever there is doubt, ask the moderation staff.
Selling on this site is restricted to the appropriate designated forums. Don't list sales threads outside the Exchange, especially without the appropriate membership.
Do not list items or offer services that are illegal. This includes counterfeit, clone, and knock off items. We don't want them here, period.
THREAD NECROMANCY IS HIGHLY DISCOURAGED. Do not bump threads that are older than 120 days. Send the seller a message instead via their profile page.
Make sure your threads are posted in the correct sections. Posting a watch for sale belongs in "Gadgets & Gear", not in "Fixed Blades", and so on.
These forums operate on honesty and integrity. As such, we have a dim view of people who act dishonestly. Your actions in the community have consequences, even if they happen elsewhere, something to keep in mind.
As to forming an opinion on another's integrity based on the simple act of selling a knife.
"beware the person who cannot be bothered with details..."
William Feather
"It's the little things that make life such a big deal..."
Timbuk3 song lyrics
^ With all due respect Somber, are we reading the same thread/facts?
Didn't this seller, decide to sell his CRK to Hal, accept his money, then renege? I know where this stands in my books, FWIW.
You're reaching here, by trying to make this thread about, Shallow Hal. It's more like, "Renege Man Bdowens."
I for one, will not deal with this individual (bdowens), if these facts indeed are accurate!
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Peter Hartwig
Gold Member
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- Feb 29, 2008
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- 5,671
HalJordon
"I agree you have the right to sell to who you please BEFORE you agree to terms and accept payment. However, a clear "I'll take it" in a thread is the universally accepted as the end all and be all. He had received payment per our agreement. I was prompt with payment and communication."
Maybe I am reading your statement differently then you meant, but if not: this refers to " However, a clear "I'll take it" in a thread is the universally accepted as the end all and be all. "
The I'll take it is the buyers commitment to the agreement, The seller can still not agree to the sale to that buyer.
This is then followed by the sellers commitment, which can be words such as it's yours or the sending of the payment info. There is now an agreement to sell
this agreement to sell is consummated by the payment, no payment and the agreement becomes void.
Now you move on to the delivery of the agreed on goods(and this is where you should have been)
It may seem like being overly picky on the progression and words, but a lot of problems come up where the buyer thinks just because he said I'll take it, it is theirs.
You may have said the same thing basically as I just did, but it seemed like a lot of emphasis on the I'll take it.
"I agree you have the right to sell to who you please BEFORE you agree to terms and accept payment. However, a clear "I'll take it" in a thread is the universally accepted as the end all and be all. He had received payment per our agreement. I was prompt with payment and communication."
Maybe I am reading your statement differently then you meant, but if not: this refers to " However, a clear "I'll take it" in a thread is the universally accepted as the end all and be all. "
The I'll take it is the buyers commitment to the agreement, The seller can still not agree to the sale to that buyer.
This is then followed by the sellers commitment, which can be words such as it's yours or the sending of the payment info. There is now an agreement to sell
this agreement to sell is consummated by the payment, no payment and the agreement becomes void.
Now you move on to the delivery of the agreed on goods(and this is where you should have been)
It may seem like being overly picky on the progression and words, but a lot of problems come up where the buyer thinks just because he said I'll take it, it is theirs.
You may have said the same thing basically as I just did, but it seemed like a lot of emphasis on the I'll take it.
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Hello all,
I wanted to take the time to try and explain my behavior. I was wrong to do what I did and apologize to Andrew and the bladeforums community. I am attaching a message I sent to Andrew apologizing and explaining why I did what I did. It was wrong and I will accept the full consequences of my behavior. I just wanted everyone here to know that I am not a pos like some people might think, but am a sinner saved by grace who is struggling and still makes mistakes, but wants to make things right even at the risk of losing my pride in the eyes of others. However I can demonstrate a humble attitude of apology to Andrew and the community, I will do so willingly.
Sincerely,
Brian
Andrew,
I want to take the time this evening to apologize to you for my previous pm. It was rude of me and impulsive. I owe you the curtesy of offering you the original deal I offered and am even willing to renegotiate the price of the original deal due to the problems I have caused you. If you are unwilling to deal with me I understand completely and will realize I have burned a bridge. However, after spending the afternoon thinking about my actions and your words of truth, I feel that I owe you and want to try to repair my integrity in your eyes and those of those on the forum I have offended. So, I am asking your forgiveness in this transaction. Last night when I posted the listing I had been drinking and did not research the command prices for the knives. I went ahead and posted even though I was not in the right frame of mind. I also apparently stated that I wanted a "spearpoint/skinner" even though I was selling a skinner and really wanted a slicer grind (i.e., the natural consequences of becoming a dysfunctional alcoholic). That is why I originally changed the listing, but as I was doing this I also was sober and realized I may have posted this original listing with lower prices on the knives than would have commanded. Therefore I did change the prices, but also made a deal to sell both knives. Later on in the day the buyer wanted to only go with the hinderer as a trade. Therefore I still have the insingo and am willing to make a deal with you if you are willing to realize this was a major mistake on my part. I also want you to know that I mainly do eBay selling and my eBay handle is bri4christ. I have done a good job of being honest and ethical over the past 16 years as an eBay seller/buyer. If you go and look me up on eBay you should be able to see my feedback is positive. Andrew, I have to admit that the reason I reached out to blade forums at this time was to make some money. I am a 40 something man who is in between careers and is trying to get his life in order. I recently quit my job as a special education aide working with 2nd graders, and quite graduate school where I was trying to become a special education teacher, due to severe depression. I am currently undergoing counseling with a Christian counselor twice a week and have been seeing a psychiatrist now for several months, changing from Zoloft to the maximum strength of Effexor. This has not been very effective for me as I am basically sitting at home watching movies and playing games on my xbox (egg on my face for my previous comment to you about being on the internet all day). My wife has been very understanding with regards to my situation, but I feel I have worn her patience thin. Our marriage is wearing thin. Where we currently live now (Northwest of Chicago) is void of any friendships/relationships and has added to my depression. Fortunately we are moving to Central Illinois due to my wife having accepted a new job. This will allow me to be closer to family and friends I have not been able to see in some time due to distance. Anyways, I apologize for rambling and dumping my life's problems on you. I just wanted to be honest with you and hope that you will forgive me for being dishonest, even if it doesn't result in a sale, or a redemption in the eyes of the forum. I wish the best for you and really feel shitty for doing this to you.
Sincerely,
Brian
I wanted to take the time to try and explain my behavior. I was wrong to do what I did and apologize to Andrew and the bladeforums community. I am attaching a message I sent to Andrew apologizing and explaining why I did what I did. It was wrong and I will accept the full consequences of my behavior. I just wanted everyone here to know that I am not a pos like some people might think, but am a sinner saved by grace who is struggling and still makes mistakes, but wants to make things right even at the risk of losing my pride in the eyes of others. However I can demonstrate a humble attitude of apology to Andrew and the community, I will do so willingly.
Sincerely,
Brian
Andrew,
I want to take the time this evening to apologize to you for my previous pm. It was rude of me and impulsive. I owe you the curtesy of offering you the original deal I offered and am even willing to renegotiate the price of the original deal due to the problems I have caused you. If you are unwilling to deal with me I understand completely and will realize I have burned a bridge. However, after spending the afternoon thinking about my actions and your words of truth, I feel that I owe you and want to try to repair my integrity in your eyes and those of those on the forum I have offended. So, I am asking your forgiveness in this transaction. Last night when I posted the listing I had been drinking and did not research the command prices for the knives. I went ahead and posted even though I was not in the right frame of mind. I also apparently stated that I wanted a "spearpoint/skinner" even though I was selling a skinner and really wanted a slicer grind (i.e., the natural consequences of becoming a dysfunctional alcoholic). That is why I originally changed the listing, but as I was doing this I also was sober and realized I may have posted this original listing with lower prices on the knives than would have commanded. Therefore I did change the prices, but also made a deal to sell both knives. Later on in the day the buyer wanted to only go with the hinderer as a trade. Therefore I still have the insingo and am willing to make a deal with you if you are willing to realize this was a major mistake on my part. I also want you to know that I mainly do eBay selling and my eBay handle is bri4christ. I have done a good job of being honest and ethical over the past 16 years as an eBay seller/buyer. If you go and look me up on eBay you should be able to see my feedback is positive. Andrew, I have to admit that the reason I reached out to blade forums at this time was to make some money. I am a 40 something man who is in between careers and is trying to get his life in order. I recently quit my job as a special education aide working with 2nd graders, and quite graduate school where I was trying to become a special education teacher, due to severe depression. I am currently undergoing counseling with a Christian counselor twice a week and have been seeing a psychiatrist now for several months, changing from Zoloft to the maximum strength of Effexor. This has not been very effective for me as I am basically sitting at home watching movies and playing games on my xbox (egg on my face for my previous comment to you about being on the internet all day). My wife has been very understanding with regards to my situation, but I feel I have worn her patience thin. Our marriage is wearing thin. Where we currently live now (Northwest of Chicago) is void of any friendships/relationships and has added to my depression. Fortunately we are moving to Central Illinois due to my wife having accepted a new job. This will allow me to be closer to family and friends I have not been able to see in some time due to distance. Anyways, I apologize for rambling and dumping my life's problems on you. I just wanted to be honest with you and hope that you will forgive me for being dishonest, even if it doesn't result in a sale, or a redemption in the eyes of the forum. I wish the best for you and really feel shitty for doing this to you.
Sincerely,
Brian
If I had posted "I'll take it" and PMd Brian to indicate as such and his reply was "Hey man, I have a trade deal pending, I am just waiting to hear from the other guy" I would have completely understood and waited my turn. OR if he had said "hey man, I know you called it in the thread but someone emailed/PMd before you and committed to buy" I would have completely understood; that happens a lot.
Neither of those things happened. I called it in the thread, requested payment info, made payment arrangements and shipping arrangements. All the while conversing with Brian about the sale. The deal was done.
AFTER taking payment from me he relisted the same knife for more money. That alone is ridiculous and backward.
I have had great trades pan out after someone else paid for an item, I have never and will never go back on a deal just because a better one comes along after I've committed.
Peter Hartwig
Gold Member
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- Feb 29, 2008
- Messages
- 5,671
You followed the process completely right, and I was not questioning your end of the transaction at all. I just didn't want someone else(most likely new) to think the key was the I'll take it. We see a number of problems with that.
So I phrased as I liked it, that was all. It was about wording in your quoted statement not actions in your transaction.
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^^^ This has to be thee most heartfelt, most candid, apology that I've read here. It actually truly humbled me, just reading this.
I for one, am willing to forgive your actions, after reading this, Brian. More importantly, I will say a prayer for you, hoping that you get your family, & professional life back on track, but more importantly, your depression, & alcohol addiction, cured.
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Being human, I'm sure we can all relate to Brian in one way or another. Being humble and telling the truth is sometimes harder than... Thank you Brian, truly. I too will say a prayer for you and your family. For strength.
Hal, thank you for the thread. It is completely warranted and is appreciated.
Apology accepted. I also apologize it had to come to this and for being a bit of a dick. We all have our demons. I just want the original deal honored, $260 shipped. I'm not looking to renegotiate the price down. PM sent for confirmation.
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Based on what the OP posted:
1) Owens solicited an offer for his knife of $260.00.
2) OP made that offer.
3) Owens didn't have to accept the offer, but he did, creating a binding sales contract.
4) Owens repudiated the binding contract.
The OP is owed the difference between the contract price and the fair market value of the goods.
The law is very clear in all fifty states.
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Awesome guys. I love seeing a story play out like this.
Both parties ended this ordeal with honor and actions worthy of respect.
Glad it worked out!!
Both parties ended this ordeal with honor and actions worthy of respect.
Glad it worked out!!
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I'll give you $280 for it. (I kid, I kid). Glad this worked out, and best to both parties. And iTrader is still worse than worthless.
This is the second thread I have seen in a week where a seller screwed up, then came back and did what was right even though it might have cost him some money. That is very encouraging. We can expect people not to screw up, but that is a pretty high bar. We are all going to screw up from time to tome. But when someone screws up and takes responsibility that is the best we can expect (Luke 23:39-43, since you mentioned your Christian faith).
Best of luck in your struggles, Brian.
Best of luck in your struggles, Brian.
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