Bear Defense?

And this is precisely why I don't usually partake in these threads - because they become arguments in which if you don't opt for a gun, you're a "Timothy Treadwell" type.

It might be easy to stereotype a Canadian researcher as having some sort of "anti gun" bias, but Idaho Fish and Game reached similar conclusions, based on a 10-year review of incidents in Idaho. The likelihood of severe injury or death was much, much higher in incidents where a firearm was involved in a bear incident. This really shouldn't be surprising when you think about it.

In addition, I think that many people are seriously fooling themselves if they think that being proficient with a firearm, and being able to drop an 800-lb, super-pissed off animal coming at you at 35mph with a high-caliber pistol in a very high-stress situation are even remotely the same thing. The latter is an extremely difficult thing to do, to put it mildly (with deadly consequences if you don't succeed...), and going to the range a couple times a week and hitting targets at 15 & 25 yards with your "bear gun" does not really prepare you for the real thing. Not even close.

I have absolutely no "anti-gun" bias whatsoever. Just the opposite in fact. I carry a firearm for protection against my own species, but when it comes to bears, I still opt for spray. That, and continual situational awareness, based on spending lots of time traveling in bear backcountry. That doesn't equate me to that dipshit Treadwell at all.
 
WHITEFISH – Wildlife officials have killed the black bear that they believe mauled a man who was camping deep in the heart of the Bob Marshall Wilderness Area on Friday.

Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Regional Supervisor Jim Satterfield said the unidentified man was injured at about 7:30 a.m. Friday in the Black Bear Creek area. The man was flown to Kalispell Regional Medical Center by ALERT helicopter and is expected to recover.

Satterfield said a team of wildlife agents flew into the remote area by helicopter to track down the animal, which they spotted 30 yards from the injured man’s campsite. The bear had pepper spray on its fur and blood in its claws, he said.

“We are very confident that we killed the offending bear,” he said. “We still have to analyze its stomach contents and wait on a DNA analysis to be 100 percent sure, but with the evidence we have we are very confident.”

Although Satterfield did not immediately have a detailed narrative of the circumstances of the attack, he said the bear apparently entered the man’s campsite and attacked.

“We don’t typically dispatch a bear if it is behaving naturally, if it is defending its cubs or becomes spooked,” he said. “That wasn’t the case here.”
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Strange they used guns instead of more pepper spray.
 
I read somewhere that you take a companion (preferrably one you don't like much) and a 22LR handgun. The bear becomes aggressive and you shoot the companion in the leg so they can't run as fast as you. Bear bait.

If you are honestly concerned about black bears, I would take along some bear spray and keep a (357 or larger caliber) firearm handy that you are comfortable with. If worst comes to worst, you use the firearm and hope things work out to your benefit. Give them their space and you generally are okay. Keep food (including grease in skillets) away from your sleeping area and put the food out of reach of any bear. Most bears are very leary of humans. Raccoons can be just as much of a pain in the butt but at least they usually won't injure you (short of being rabid).
 
Smithhammer said:
And this is precisely why I don't usually partake in these threads - because they become arguments in which if you don't opt for a gun, you're a "Timothy Treadwell" type.

It might be easy to stereotype a Canadian researcher as having some sort of "anti gun" bias, but Idaho Fish and Game reached similar conclusions, based on a 10-year review of incidents in Idaho. The likelihood of severe injury or death was much, much higher in incidents where a firearm was involved in a bear incident. This really shouldn't be surprising when you think about it.

In addition, I think that many people are seriously fooling themselves if they think that being proficient with a firearm, and being able to drop an 800-lb, super-pissed off animal coming at you at 35mph with a high-caliber pistol in a very high-stress situation are even remotely the same thing. The latter is an extremely difficult thing to do, to put it mildly (with deadly consequences if you don't succeed...), and going to the range a couple times a week and hitting targets at 15 & 25 yards with your "bear gun" does not really prepare you for the real thing. Not even close.

I have absolutely no "anti-gun" bias whatsoever. Just the opposite in fact. I carry a firearm for protection against my own species, but when it comes to bears, I still opt for spray. That, and continual situational awareness, based on spending lots of time traveling in bear backcountry. That doesn't equate me to that dipshit Treadwell at all.
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Treadwell didn't even take spray. As he was torn apart by his cuddly forest friends, he had an epiphany about his bear defense strategy. Anyone who expresses concern for the beasts in defensive situations is in their own little world.

Bear spray requires close proximity to the bear, and you will get blasted also if it is windy.

explain how bear spray and no gun would've worked here: http://www.adn.com/2009/08/13/897940/twig-snap-alerts-dog-walker-to.html
 
I don't need to "explain" how something might have been handled differently from minimal details of a particular incident culled from a newspaper, nor am I the least bit interested in debating any of this (again...). You are more than welcome to do whatever you want, and carry whatever you think is most effective - I was only explaining what my choices are and why, based on plenty of experience in a number of Western states with healthy populations (including 12 seasons in Alaska), and citing an extensive study done in my home state which suggests the same.

The OP asked about bear spray specifically, and from the nature of his post, it doesn't sound like he's going to run out an buy a 12-gauge or .357 for his next camping trip (in a place that only has black bears and no grizz, no less....), so my response was in regards to his described situation. Nor do I believe that urging him to go out and buy a gun for an upcoming trip would be responsible and safe advice, unless he is already someone with extensive experience and training using a firearm in high-stress situations - particularly if he is going to be camping around other people. I certainly hope that whatever you choose is based on experience, the best research, and doesn't lead to a worse encounter than necessary.
 
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Perhaps carry both a gun and spray? :)
I can understand spray doesn't feel as safe as a gun, but I imagine a kill shot is much easier said than done.

As someone said, being aware of your situation is vital. Try to stay away from any confrontation.
 
If the goal is to scare off inquisitive bears then a mist of unpleasant gas is probably more effective than a poorly placed slug. Go to a local shop and grab whatever the local guides and such use, that should do the trick.

Beyond that be very careful about food and smell management. You do not want either in camp.
 
agile_1 said:
Gun laws in the states are not quite as sensible as people think. If you are licensed and legal to own/carry/use in one state, it does not mean that you are legal in the state next door. Research the gun laws where you are going. I would say the best you are going to be able to do against a bear is a large caliber rifle or shotgun slugs. I wouldn't piss around with piss, bear/pepper spray or anything less lethal if I had the choice of a rifle or shotgun. I'd take a .44 magnum pistol over bear/pepper spray.
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I say YEA on the .44 Magnum!
 
In case it wasn't answered, bear spray is just a higher OC content spray than that used for muggers IIRC. I suggest anyone considering carrying OC spray try it out and get a little on you (maybe the weaker stuff). As one who has worn OC spray a few times and knows how the wind puts it where it wants it, you may prefer the bear:D I second the firearm idea, mainly for protection against your fellow man. Unfortunately, even in America it's often problematic, especially in public park land. Take care.
 
While not exciting, the truth is that black bears aren't really much of a threat. I'm not saying not to be prepared, its just that they don't really have bad attitudes. Best thing to do is to keep anything they want away from where you'll sleep. If you do run into them, they aren't 800-lb beasts (most of the time), nor are they looking at you as a meal.

Sure, there are exceptions, but there are exceptions to anything. I don't even carry a gun when I'm hunting them (archery), even though I could. There's just not a need to. Just have fun, keep the camp clean, and get some spray if you want, but I don't think there's a strong reason to.

Blacks aren't anything at all like brown bears, really.
 
If you talk softly, and reason with the bear, be he black or brown, I am sure the bear will readily see that you are a friend, and no threat to him or his (or hers, as the case may be). I mean, can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:

In some 60+ years of messing around in the woods, both here in Florida, and other places, I have never had a single problem with bears. That said, I always have something along, that would address a problem encounter, were it to occur.
 
I think the point of all this is.... DON'T WORRY ABOUT BLACK BEARS. Sure there might be one in a hundred that given the right circumstances might attack you. But if you pay attention, you will be fine with or without bear spray or a handgun. If you routinely legally carry a handgun, then by all means take it with you. But you won't need it. Enjoy.
 
So....this has gotten a lot of opinions! What's it gonna be?
I still highly recommend the bear spray and pro active measures.
I am not saying anything against what others have posted and I am aware that bear attacks do happen but go camping with your head on your shoulders and have fun. Just don't get too scared especially with a firearm...make sure it's a bear if you shoot. Again, nothing personal to anyone, just a word of caution I had to share just in case.

also, Living in Manitoba and spending a fair amount of time outdoors through out my life I am not stranger to black bears.
Hopefully this will put you at ease

"Between 1900 and 2009, there have been 63 fatal black bear attacks in North America with stalking, predatory attacks being more frequent than threatened, defensive attacks."
and here is some more reading on black bears, I think Manitoba is in a pretty good position to offer advice on the animal

Each encounter is unique. There is no guarantee what works in one instance will work in another. Here is what experts recommend you do:
•Stop, remain calm and assess the situation to try and understand what message the bear is conveying before you act.
•Never approach or crowd a bear, even if it does not seem agitated. If you choose to do so, you should be prepared to defend yourself.
•Never, never feed it!
•Never run unless reaching safety is a guarantee! Fleeing may trigger a chase response. Bears can reach bursts of speed of 50 km/hr (30 m/hr) and can outrun a person going up or downhill.
•Climbing a tree or entering water is no guarantee of safety since black bears are superior climbers and stronger swimmers.
•Standing on its hind legs is seldom a precursor to an attack. The bear is trying to get a better look or smell at something it's uncertain of.
•Consider taking a walking stick and carrying bear spray attached to your belt.
•If you are near a building or car, get inside.
•If a bear is in a tree – leave it alone by vacating the area. When it feels safe, it will climb down and leave.

If a bear is unaware of you:
•Move away quietly when the bear is not looking toward you. Keep your eye on the bear, but do not make direct eye contact because the gaze may be interpreted as a challenge.

Approaches by black bears towards people are very rare. You should be able to recognize all types of bear behaviour and learn to react accordingly.

Bears will display three types of behaviour. These tips will help you assess the situation and stay safe.

1. Threatened (Defensive) Bear


A bear that feels threatened will often display signs of agitation and stress through vocal and/or visual cues such as huffing, popping of the jaws, pacing, swinging of the head or excessive salivation. This may escalate to slapping the ground or a tree, or to a bluff charge, stopping short of contact. The head will be lowered with ears drawn back while facing you. This behaviour is associated with defensive bears.

If a threatened bear charges
• Stand your ground, be non-threatening.
• Talk to the bear in a calm voice.
• When the bear has moved off, proceed on your way.

If a threatened bear makes contact with you
•Fall to the ground laying face down with legs slightly apart.
• Lock your fingers behind your head/neck.
•If the bear flips you over, roll back onto your stomach.
• Do not struggle or cry out.
•Do not move until you are sure the bear has left.
• If the attack lasts more than several minutes, the bear is not attacking defensively anymore. Fight back - using a hunting knife, rocks, sticks or any other available weapon.

2. Non-threatening Bear


If a bear approaches in a non-threatening manner, it may be curious, used to people, after your food, wanting right of way, or to assert dominance.

If a non-threatening bear approaches you
• Stop and remain calm. Talk to the bear in a firm voice. Assess the situation.
• Do not turn and run unless reaching safety is a guarantee.
• Group together.
• Be ready to use a deterrent, such as bear pepper spray, a hunting knife or air horn.
• Stand your ground until the bear leaves the area.

3. Stalking (Predatory) Bear


A stalking bear's approach will be deliberate and silent. This bear is the type you should be most concerned with. The head will be up and ears erect, displaying no signs of stress. This behaviour is associated with predatory bears.

If a stalking bear continues to follow you
•Stop and stand your ground.
• Make direct eye contact.
• Act aggressively to persuade the bear you are not easy prey.
•Shout, wave your arms, stomp your feet.
•Elevate yourself onto a log or rock and raise your jacket to look bigger.
•If within range, use your bear pepper spray.

If a stalking bear attacks you
• Fight back with anything at hand. Use your walking stick, hunting knife, firearm, rocks, sticks, binoculars, car keys or even bare hands.
•Strike for the bear's eyes or nose.
•Kick and yell.
•Be relentless, you are fighting for your life

In all my encounters with bears I have only been scared once, and that was because I foolishly sneaked up on one before I realised what animal I was trying to get a better look at. Luckily he was more scared and ran away pretty quick.

Have a good camping trip! Bears and camping are a way of life up here, take the info for what it's worth and do what you're comfortable with
 
I don't have any experience with bear, so appreciate the opinions and info everyone is offering. I will say, however, that OC spray often doesn't work on people. I don't think it's a "level of OC" thing, I think it's individual chemistry. I just couldn't feel safe having ONLY OC spray knowing it's very unreliable. It's probably a good tool to have on your belt if you've got the room, but I would think it may be better suited for a campsite as the cans a large. I think the situational awareness/stay calm advice is great, but animals are unpredictable. Just like the mountain lions which seem to be getting more comfortable with grabbing people from busy trails (California) or motel sidewalks (Big Bend, Texas). To me a 30 oz. handgun is cheap insurance and handles a lot of problems. Be safe.

ETA: While it's certainly no fight stopper, I'll bet a .38 +P in an animal's paunch from a 14 oz. revolver hurts more than a blast of OC. It works better on people, anyway, and weighs about the same as a small bottle of water.
 
i just saw an experiment on myth busters(discovery channel) involving a bear and i think it was either paprika or cayenne pepper. well they placed a cooler full of meat in a car and surrounded the car with a line of paprika/cayenne. when the bear entered the field he immediately turned away and ran for the river to dunk his nose in.haha it was kinda funny that they had to drag the bear back to confirm the experiment and the same thing happened the bear was deterred haha. if you don't mind bringing a bucket load of the stuff and spreading it around your campsite it might be a good try :D
 
jdk1 said:
ETA: While it's certainly no fight stopper, I'll bet a .38 +P in an animal's paunch from a 14 oz. revolver hurts more than a blast of OC. It works better on people, anyway, and weighs about the same as a small bottle of water.
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Don't kid yourself. A round from a .38+P won't do a thing to stop a big bear - it will probably only make matters much worse. If you are going to shoot a big bear, you shoot (and keep shooting) until the bear is dead. And you choose a caliber that will increase the chances of doing that as quickly as possible. You don't aim for the paunch.

There are numerous accounts of large bears taking multiple hits from a much more powerful round such as a .357, head-on, and still charging and attacking the shooter.

If I had a choice between spraying a bear in the face, or shooting it with a .38, I would choose the former hands-down, every time.
 
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