Bear Grylls Gerber knife

[Mistwalker]

...... And give me a break about having to be 154CM to last 30 minutes in a survival bush-craft situation. Most of the folks left on the globe that are doing this for real life are using something like 420J stainless for their knives.

When I moved from Tennessee to Tampa Bay when I was ten I had an old Edgemark hunting knife...I don't remember the model. It didn't take long for me to realize that this knife was not going to work with my new lifestyle. The salt water and air, along with my limited knowledge, short attention span, and lack of discipline nearly ruined the knife pretty quickly. My father bought me a Buck 119 and I have to say that which ever one of the 400 series stainless they were using in 1975 sure held up a lot longer than 30 minutes. Over the next 3 years of exploring the Bay area and Hillsborough River, doing things like cleaning fish, cutting bait, prepping food, starting fires, cutting cooking sticks and forked rod-props, building palm and palmetto shelters on a very regular basis I may well have used that knife as much or more than many will use a knife in thrice that many years or longer. That knife never failed me, I failed it. I killed it throwing it at a tree after hours of being outside in the woods one very cold winter day back in Tennessee when I was fourteen.

 

[fallen1]

I haven't actually handled the knife but all of the other Gerber models of similar pattern have been US made. Do you actually know this one is Chinese made? And give me a break about having to be 154CM to last 30 minutes in a survival bush-craft situation. Most of the folks left on the globe that are doing this for real life are using something like 420J stainless for their knives.

Ok, you're wrong on your first point. Secondly, the knife is 60 bucks and every time Gerber gives specs on a knife with a steel other than the mystery junk they use, they list it. Same thing as when its made in the US, its listed. I think its a pretty safe assumption, but if im wrong, ill gladly stand corrected.

Gerber does make some strong blades, but even with the LMF II they use 12C27 Stainless and it doesnt hold an edge well, which is what I was speaking of when saying it wouldnt last. You can baton with a butter knife if you hit it hard enough. Have fun sharpening every 15 minutes. Gerbers heat treatments are usually softer than average. Notice some folks posted about Gerber or Colt knives performing well, but those knives are older than I am and were most likely made in the US. Totally different era quite different from todays knife production. A good heat treat can make a world of difference, even on cheap steel. Dont get me wrong im not bashing Gerber, I still own one. Im just bashing THIS blade and the marketing behind it.

Your last point is comical. Are you off your rocker? Simply stunning. And how would you even begin to know that?

 

[tltt]

"Your last point is comical. Are you off your rocker? Simply stunning. And how would you even begin to know that"

No, he's way more right than wrong on that. If you look at the knives used by actual really hard users outside of the U.S. and parts of Europe. The average stainless steel will run 420j2 or if they are lucky, 440a. Those were the industry standard for the last 40+ years in the U.S. and elsewere for common stainless knives.

1080 or 1095( or local equv.) is still the standard carbon steel for hunting and chopping blades.

So far as rockwell hardness, having seen various rockwell reports over the years, I'd take any numbers with a grain of salt unless they were multi-point testing each individual blade before it gets boxed.

Sometimes, they are 2-3 points +/- of stated numbers. It was much worse years ago, were you could see 10-15 point swings.

 

[stealthchaser13]

Ok, you're wrong on your first point. Secondly, the knife is 60 bucks and every time Gerber gives specs on a knife with a steel other than the mystery junk they use, they list it. Same thing as when its made in the US, its listed. I think its a pretty safe assumption, but if im wrong, ill gladly stand corrected.

Gerber does make some strong blades, but even with the LMF II they use 12C27 Stainless and it doesnt hold an edge well, which is what I was speaking of when saying it wouldnt last. You can baton with a butter knife if you hit it hard enough. Have fun sharpening every 15 minutes. Gerbers heat treatments are usually softer than average. Notice some folks posted about Gerber or Colt knives performing well, but those knives are older than I am and were most likely made in the US. Totally different era quite different from todays knife production. A good heat treat can make a world of difference, even on cheap steel. Dont get me wrong im not bashing Gerber, I still own one. Im just bashing THIS blade and the marketing behind it.

Your last point is comical. Are you off your rocker? Simply stunning. And how would you even begin to know that?

The Colt knife I posted about I purchased brand new last year...

 

[fallen1]

"No, he's way more right than wrong on that. If you look at the knives used by actual really hard users outside of the U.S. and parts of Europe. The average stainless steel will run 420j2 or if they are lucky, 440a. Those were the industry standard for the last 40+ years in the U.S. and elsewhere for common stainless knives."

Again I ask, and it was a rhetorical question, How would you even begin to know that? Think about it. No matter what knives were mass produced by any given supplier, sold the most, issued the most, etc...there is no possible way to know what "actual really hard users" have used. How would we look at those knives? Terms like "industry standards" and "common stainless knives" means nothing without facts. The point is, the statement was too generalized. The #1 military issue blade for the US for the last "40+" years was a 1095 Kabar, or something very similar. Over these years, if I had to guess, they were/are more likely to be in a survival/hard use situation than anyone else.

400 series may be the most common for stainless knives, but to speak for everyone on the planet using a survival knife with such a bold statement like that is a bit silly. Plus we're off topic.

The Colt knife I posted about I purchased brand new last year...

My apologies, I was referring to HornDogs.

 

[tltt]

"No, he's way more right than wrong on that. If you look at the knives used by actual really hard users outside of the U.S. and parts of Europe. The average stainless steel will run 420j2 or if they are lucky, 440a. Those were the industry standard for the last 40+ years in the U.S. and elsewhere for common stainless knives."

"Again I ask, and it was a rhetorical question, How would you even begin to know that? Think about it. No matter what knives were mass produced by any given supplier, sold the most, issued the most, etc...there is no possible way to know what "actual really hard users" have used. How would we look at those knives? Terms like "industry standards" and "common stainless knives" means nothing without facts. The point is, the statement was too generalized. The #1 military issue blade for the US for the last "40+" years was a 1095 Kabar, or something very similar. Over these years, if I had to guess, they were/are more likely to be in a survival/hard use situation than anyone else.

400 series may be the most common for stainless knives, but to speak for everyone on the planet using a survival knife with such a bold statement like that is a bit silly. Plus we're off topic."

You can certainly gauge who is buying what. You look through various history books, company records, etc... at which patterns are selling to who, by which companies, during which years, in what steels, etc....

Then you talk to folks who actually have their feet on the ground with these folks(soldiers, relief workers, guides, etc.....) to see if the locals are trading them off, actually using them, etc....

It's simple stuff, of course you'll a deviation, but Sidehill was not speaking totally in absolutes.

 

[fallen1]

You can certainly gauge who is buying what. You look through various history books, company records, etc... at which patterns are selling to who, by which companies, during which years, in what steels, etc....

Then you talk to folks who actually have their feet on the ground with these folks(soldiers, relief workers, guides, etc.....) to see if the locals are trading them off, actually using them, etc....

It's simple stuff, of course you'll a deviation, but Sidehill was not speaking totally in absolutes.

Yep, thats all pretty simple stuff. Are you actually reading what you're typing? You just listed a lifetime of work. You and Sidehill go ahead and do all that, then get back to me and we can continue the debate...with facts. While you guys are traveling the world talking to locals about knives, I would pick up a knife from the guys over at Randalls Adventure and Training Camp...you know, the people who really do, and train people to survive with a knife, be sure and ask for the 420j version. You honestly think "most people who do this for real" are buying knives in 420, or going to walmart for a gerber?

Come on guys, REREAD what my points were. My comments were only about THIS knife, not a type or brand of knife, and the marketing behind it. The latter being the best part, partnered with Bear Grylls. I told you guys not to get your panties wrinkled. Im not the one who made such a claim as to say everyone left on the planet or in the last 40+ years using a survival knife is first, stainless, and secondly, something like 420j. Then you make a claim that its true and easy to prove. Sounded like a pretty sure statement to me. As much as you want to, or think its possible to find out, no one will ever know the answer to that question. Which is my point. Theres just too many variables, sorry. Nor is it a big deal. Thanks for the entertainment though. Can we go back to Bear, THE KNIFE and how crappy we think it is or isnt?

 

[Louieblades]

I have agree with J. Williams serrated edges are only good for cutting through rope and other fiberous materials. Out in the bush a straight edge is the better choice. If serrations are so wonderful why is it that you don't see them on older knives? Serrations were made popular by spyderco back in the 1990s they are good at cutting rope ,seat belts,cardboard and fruits but they suck when it comes to carving wood,skinning or general camp chore food preps. Have you ever tried to make a fuzzy stick with serrated blade it's almost impossible. Serrations have there place but are really more suited to urban survival applications.

 

[Dr Heelhook]

It seems some people here don't know the difference between a saw and a serrated edge.

 

[cheftothestars]

to quote Jeff Cooper, "It's for SELLING!"

get it?

serrations look cool to the average consumer, who has no clue how to sharpen a knife.

they'll buy the knife to have, because it's got his name on it, but the odds are slim that they'll ever practice any survival skills.

Yet another Knife snob!

Do you think because a regular person buys a knife with serrations they have no brain and have no ability to train themselves?
I would rather see 3000 BG knives sold and just 10% of them decide to look further into gear, training and knowledge.
The one thing I dislike about this site is the cliquey and snobbish attitude held by so many people on here regarding "the right gear" "the wrong gear"
Every tool has a role in the right scenario no one tool will perform all the tasks required.
We all start somewhere and yore telling me your first knife was the perfect choice on someones review somewhere? I tell you its taken me a long time to not only try to get good tools(not perfect tools) and then trying to gain skills to use them.
yes people watch TV for Ideas read forums like this to get ideas thats why they are there. I dont have lofty wiseman living next door to go hang out with and teach me so I buy his book, I watch TV to see how many techniques are carried across then watch them being used in the field, I try to get out when I can to practice skills.
If youre lucky enough to live in a great part of the world with mountains or desert or jungle as your backgarden all power to you but a lot of us dont.
How many people surf these sites see comments like yours and other and decide not to participate because they will get ridiculed for buying the "wrong knife"!
Thats my sunday rant over....please give sheeples a chance to become wolves then we will all benefit.
Have a nice day

 

[Louieblades]

Serrations do have there uses but if you look at many other tribal cultures from around the world who use knives on a daily basis to survive such as the bushmen of Africa or the Amazon tribesmen they are never seen using serrated knives. The only time I have ever seen serrations was on an antique Indo Persian war sword. Serrations are a fairly recent adaption seen and used mostly on tactical military knives and yes this is a selling ploy used by knife companies so they can cash in on many arm chair warriors they look cool visually and that helps them sell. Anyway it is much easier and quicker to baton through a piece of wood than to try and saw/cut through with a serrated blade. Hey remember that first Rambo knife with those mean looking saw teeth on the spine? Well those saw teeth were terrible at sawing through wood and in real combat a few soldiers found that they would get hung up on the ribs of an enemy soldier and that made it hard to extract in the heat of combat.

 

[Sep]

Gerber does make some strong blades, but even with the LMF II they use 12C27 Stainless and it doesnt hold an edge well,

Bark River used 12C27 for some time, and they have very good reputation.

 

[Louieblades]

12c27 is much better than 420hc you have to realize that knife campanies will pick steels that are easier to grind and produce less wear on belt sanders and other grinding machines.

 

[Horn Dog]

Since I collect survival knives, I have one of these Gerber BG survival knives on pre-order. I will post a review of it after I test it. Then we can end all the speculation and find out how it stacks up to Ranger, ESEE, SOG, Foster, Ritter, Bark River, and others. Then I will hide it in the bottom of my big box o' knives so nobody thinks I'm a knife newbie.

 

[Tostig]

Yet another Knife snob!

Do you think because a regular person buys a knife with serrations they have no brain and have no ability to train themselves?
I would rather see 3000 BG knives sold and just 10% of them decide to look further into gear, training and knowledge.
The one thing I dislike about this site is the cliquey and snobbish attitude held by so many people on here regarding "the right gear" "the wrong gear"Every tool has a role in the right scenario no one tool will perform all the tasks required.
We all start somewhere and yore telling me your first knife was the perfect choice on someones review somewhere? I tell you its taken me a long time to not only try to get good tools(not perfect tools) and then trying to gain skills to use them.
yes people watch TV for Ideas read forums like this to get ideas thats why they are there. I dont have lofty wiseman living next door to go hang out with and teach me so I buy his book, I watch TV to see how many techniques are carried across then watch them being used in the field, I try to get out when I can to practice skills.
If youre lucky enough to live in a great part of the world with mountains or desert or jungle as your backgarden all power to you but a lot of us dont.
How many people surf these sites see comments like yours and other and decide not to participate because they will get ridiculed for buying the "wrong knife"!
Thats my sunday rant over....please give sheeples a chance to become wolves then we will all benefit.
Have a nice day

Ancient wisdom says ---
Never let someone else's opinion bother you.


Lol , Why do so many of you seem to take Bear personally ? It's just a TV show and a hell of a lot more entertaining then Next Top Model, or Keeping up with the Kardashians... Yea the show is over the top and all that but the man makes me giggle from time to time and does go to some interesting places I wouldn't be caught dead in.
That said the knife in question looks quite useful , I do agree about the bright BG on it though.

Tostig

 

[fallen1]

Bark River used 12C27 for some time, and they have very good reputation.

I totally agree, Bark Rivers 12c is fantastic and they still use it. However, I wouldn't even begin to compare Bark Rivers heat treat to Gerbers. Thats almost blasphemy. No offense.

12c27 is much better than 420hc you have to realize that knife campanies will pick steels that are easier to grind and produce less wear on belt sanders and other grinding machines.

They are actually quite comparable.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=420HC,12c27&gm=0

In fact, 420hc will outperform 12c27 (which is basically 440A) in some cases depending on who treats the steel. Say, 420hc treated by Bark River vs 12c27 treated by Gerber. I bet the 420hc would smoke the 12c in performance tests.

What the 420hc lacks in chromium and carbon, it makes up for in vanadium and silicon.

Good knife companies like BRKT who do produce knives in specialty steels like cpm3v, even though they cost more to produce, offset the cost of production by increasing the cost of the knife.

 

[stealthchaser13]

Serrations do have there uses but if you look at many other tribal cultures from around the world who use knives on a daily basis to survive such as the bushmen of Africa or the Amazon tribesmen they are never seen using serrated knives. The only time I have ever seen serrations was on an antique Indo Persian war sword. Serrations are a fairly recent adaption seen and used mostly on tactical military knives and yes this is a selling ploy used by knife companies so they can cash in on many arm chair warriors they look cool visually and that helps them sell. Anyway it is much easier and quicker to baton through a piece of wood than to try and saw/cut through with a serrated blade. Hey remember that first Rambo knife with those mean looking saw teeth on the spine? Well those saw teeth were terrible at sawing through wood and in real combat a few soldiers found that they would get hung up on the ribs of an enemy soldier and that made it hard to extract in the heat of combat.

the sawteeth on the back of a knife blade are designed for cutting through the skin of a downed aircraft. not for sawing through wood.

 

[Louieblades]

the sawteeth on the back of a knife blade are designed for cutting through the skin of a downed aircraft. not for sawing through wood.

Well maybe this is true on a Randall attack 18 the back edge has small closely placed teeth the Rambo knife's teeth are too large and spaced too far apart to be used on aircraft aluminium. Any way I am talking about serrations on the primary cutting edge not the spine.

 

[Louieblades]

I totally agree, Bark Rivers 12c is fantastic and they still use it. However, I wouldn't even begin to compare Bark Rivers heat treat to Gerbers. Thats almost blasphemy. No offense.



They are actually quite comparable.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=420HC,12c27&gm=0

In fact, 420hc will outperform 12c27 (which is basically 440A) in some cases depending on who treats the steel. Say, 420hc treated by Bark River vs 12c27 treated by Gerber. I bet the 420hc would smoke the 12c in performance tests.

What the 420hc lacks in chromium and carbon, it makes up for in vanadium and silicon.

Good knife companies like BRKT who do produce knives in specialty steels like cpm3v, even though they cost more to produce, offset the cost of production by increasing the cost of the knife.

Take a look at these specs


Four steel grades are used for knives from Mora of Sweden.
Stainless steel (S)
Knife blades are made of hardenable stainless steel- Sandvik 12C27 (hardened to HRC 57-58), producing knives with extreme strength, long life as well as having high resistance to moisture without rusting.

420HC: a high carbon (HC) variation of a standard 420 steel, 420HC steels offer the excellent wear resistance of high carbon added to the superior corrosion resistance of stainless chromium steels. It can be hardened to a Rockwell hardness of Rc 58. 420HC knives are tough, sharpen well, and will hold an edge. Blades made from 420HC steel are good all-around outdoor knives.

It seems that both steels top out at 58rc so basically they are about equal I picked up a Mora model 2000 a few years back and the knife cut like crazy for a month before I needed to touch up the edge. The Swedes invented this steel and have been using in for many years.

 

[fallen1]

Kinda seems like you're helping me prove my point.

The rc scale really doesnt mean a whole lot to begin with, but more importantly, it means nothing when comparing the "likeness" of one steel to another. What I mean by that is, for example, Spyderco treats their S30V to 58rc, and if Mora treats their 420hc to 58, it doesnt mean they will perform the same. I just means that, for that company, 58rc on their steel/grind/application is the sweet spot...for them, on that steel. It will vary from company to company too, some companies will have a better process of getting their knives to a hardness of 58rc. I dunno, maybe im misunderstanding but it sounds like you're sayin, because they are hardened at the same rc, they are basically the same steel. Not sure where you got those definitions for those steels, knife companies can say whatever they want about them for marketing purposes but it just boils down to whats in the steel.

Mora does have some good blades though. :thumbup: