Becker For an Expedition....

Moosez45 said:
Plus, I re read Congo. :D.

Moose
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Awesome book. Made me really want a gorilla that spoke sign language. I think I'd take a BK-7 and a SAK. I would definitely pack a bunch of bug repelling stuff in that environment too. As far as guns I am firepower ignorant.
 
RogueBowie said:
Awesome book. Made me really want a gorilla that spoke sign language. I think I'd take a BK-7 and a SAK. I would definitely pack a bunch of bug repelling stuff in that environment too. As far as guns I am firepower ignorant.
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It is a good book. I needed a mental adventure, so, I took one.

I've always wanted to see Africa, but to be honest, its one of those countries that the only way I would go, would be at gunpoint. To much war and strife for my liking.

But, its a good mental prep and fun thought process to "plan" a expedition in the wilds.

Moose
 
Moosez45 said:
I've always wanted to see Africa, but to be honest, its one of those continents that the only way I would go, would be at gunpoint. To much war and strife for my liking.
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Fixed it for you. :D

I have only seen a small piece of Africa. In fact... the only time I've ever had a gun pointed/fired at me was related to Africa... don't think I'll be going back.
 
hunter55 said:
Dear jdk1, with all my respect and taking under consideration that (according to “pugs75”) “How about we just keep it to knives”, just a few more words (always IMHO):
1st. I have never said that a Cape Buffalo is a threat in the jungles or forests of Central Africa. In jungle of Africa you can meet leopard, jungle elephant, okapi (speaking about large animals). You can find there also the giant forest hog, the western bongo etc.
2nd. Thank you for the suggestions as far as the books. The Keith’s book(s) have already mentioned by me.
3nd. I want to underline that in Africa the rule is “use enough gun” and of course “be prepared for the unexpected”. You never know what is going to meet in your foot-trekking expedition in the next …corner of the bush or jungle. So in the group have to be at least one adequate gun– for buck-up purposes. And for Africa, depending the environment, and generally speaking, adequate gun is one with caliber over .300 magnum. Follow the general rule for African hunting “.375 H&H Magnum is the MINIMUM for the dangerous game”. And you never know when you will meet dangerous game. As writer and hunter Graig Boddington says (in his books) “in general, choices should favor the heavier animals that MIGHT be encountered – being overgunned seems a much less costly mistake than being undergunned!”. Usually calibers up to .300 magnum are enough for meat but in the dangerous situation (close encounter with a dangerous big animal) then you need the above mentioned “enough gun” (then you need “power”). Leopard itself is another story. In the dense bush or forest where the distances are so close, the adequate gun – besides a .375 or more rifle – is a 12-gauge shotgun (not an automatic but a pump-action, just for reliability purposes) with 3-inches Magnum buckshots, specially as a buck-up gun in the case of wounded animal (with enough spread of the pellets) in order to anticipate the predator which is moving and attacking like a lightning.
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Hunter, thanks for the reply. Understanding my knowledge is limited, everything you said sounds very reasonable. When "going in" for wounded leopard, Capstick used a Winchester 1300, an ancient USMC leather neck protector (how they got the name "Leather Necks"), and an old jacket which had pieces of vinyl kitchen flooring rivited to it! Of course, this was Capstick so it's possible it was someone else who actually did it, but I like anyway:)

As you have some experience there, what do you think of knives for the trip? There seems agreement that a solid belt knife is a must, which I personally believe goes for any environment. Other than that, many want a big knife or machete. I think the Becker khukuri "BRK" (I don't have one though:() would be great as it's thin enough for machete work, but strong enough to fell small trees as well. Are you in the need a big blade or machete club as many of us are, or is it uneeded weight? Also, thanks for the offer of the info on African hunting as reading about it is likely as close as I'll ever get to hunting there. Unfortunately, BF doesn't make it easy for non-paying members to share info in private. If I can figure out a way, I'll contact you. Thanks again and thanks for the input. One huge benefit of a forum like this is that it's so easy to get input from people around the world and from every walk of life. Take care.
 
jdk1 said:
Hunter, thanks for the reply. Understanding my knowledge is limited, everything you said sounds very reasonable. When "going in" for wounded leopard, Capstick used a Winchester 1300, an ancient USMC leather neck protector (how they got the name "Leather Necks"), and an old jacket which had pieces of vinyl kitchen flooring rivited to it! Of course, this was Capstick so it's possible it was someone else who actually did it, but I like anyway:)

As you have some experience there, what do you think of knives for the trip? There seems agreement that a solid belt knife is a must, which I personally believe goes for any environment. Other than that, many want a big knife or machete. I think the Becker khukuri "BRK" (I don't have one though:() would be great as it's thin enough for machete work, but strong enough to fell small trees as well. Are you in the need a big blade or machete club as many of us are, or is it uneeded weight? Also, thanks for the offer of the info on African hunting as reading about it is likely as close as I'll ever get to hunting there. Unfortunately, BF doesn't make it easy for non-paying members to share info in private. If I can figure out a way, I'll contact you. Thanks again and thanks for the input. One huge benefit of a forum like this is that it's so easy to get input from people around the world and from every walk of life. Take care.
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I do feel that a solid belt knife is a requirement in most "wild" environments, from Borneo to Boston. But that's just me.

Its the size, shape and steel that most will discuss with some serious passion. The RBK is a great tool, I have one, and I have access to a "user", made from 52100. They are, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the most awesome and ferocious tools I've ever held. The weight, blade geometry, and size, send shivers down my spine thinking of what it could do to flesh. Simply put, its badass.

And a good choice.

I've read quite a bit on African hunting, and know a few folks that travel there every year, sometimes twice a year, to murder something. For the money they are forking over, using the term "hunting" implies the potential for failure. These guys go and kill shit. Simple enough.

Smallest caliber they take, is a 300WinMag, usually in a lightweight sporter rifle, bolt action.

Most big bores are gonna weight you down terribly, and ammo, just adds to that. My idea of an expedition, leaves me to think of something in the semi automatic range, of a medium to heavy caliber. The M1A does fit the bill, but they are just so dang heavy, just like the SOCOM, and SOCOMII. The Steyr Scout is lighter, but bolt action.

6.8 SPC was designed as a "man down" cartridge, but short range ballistics say, its gonna hit pretty hard. The ones I've shot, back that up, up least on reactive targets, that is.

My preferred cartridge is the .308, and semi auto, offers follow up shots.

375H&H in a lever action, with a red dot, sounds pretty good to.

Perhaps an AR10 or R11 in 308.

Either way, on this trip, the primary objective is not to take heavy, or large game, but for protection and smaller game hunting.

I'm going with a 6.8SPS on an AR Platform, Aimpoint H1 sight, and Supersling. Yeah, that sounds about right.

BK7 on my hip, and I'm changing my sidearm as well. That Ruger Super Red in 4" looks to be a good companion, even if it does weigh as much as a boat anchor. :D

Moose
 
Never been to Africa, so this is just a fun thought exercise.

tradewater said:
.357 S&W and an 835 mossie with slugs, buck and 6's.

As far as steel goes, I'd have to agree with Moose on the BK7 for versatility and a BK14 because I don't leave home without it.

A couple of sticks of dynamite in the top of the pack for "signaling". :D
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^this!
835 can handle magnums, and the three shells listed should take down darn near anything. plus shotties are relatively light, and draw a very fast bead (seems important in heavy jungle).
I'd make sure someone in the party has a .308 and a true "elephant gun" as well. (I was thinking something along the lines of .700NE or something else that seems Ludicrous to someone from North America.)

handgun should be something light, that you're good with. Humidity resistance is a consideration.

Knife: needs to be good for cooking/dressing all the tasty animals, camp chores, trailblazing and machete work, and should have a sharp swedge for the last of the last ditch scenarios;
BK-9 hoghunter fits the bill to me. (or just sharpen your swedge).

In a multi-knife scenario, a BK-15 and a BK-9/BK-4/machete seem to fit the bill nicely.

And don't forget a fishing rod if you're going any where near the water!
and, of course the tons of vaccines, hardcore antibiotics, and extra 'skeeter netting :D
 
Moose, have you seen the Long Way round or Long Way Down motorcycle series. I think you'd like them.
 
jdk1 said:
Hunter, thanks for the reply. Understanding my knowledge is limited, everything you said sounds very reasonable. When "going in" for wounded leopard, Capstick used a Winchester 1300, an ancient USMC leather neck protector (how they got the name "Leather Necks"), and an old jacket which had pieces of vinyl kitchen flooring rivited to it! Of course, this was Capstick so it's possible it was someone else who actually did it, but I like anyway:)

As you have some experience there, what do you think of knives for the trip? There seems agreement that a solid belt knife is a must, which I personally believe goes for any environment. Other than that, many want a big knife or machete. I think the Becker khukuri "BRK" (I don't have one though:() would be great as it's thin enough for machete work, but strong enough to fell small trees as well. Are you in the need a big blade or machete club as many of us are, or is it uneeded weight? Also, thanks for the offer of the info on African hunting as reading about it is likely as close as I'll ever get to hunting there. Unfortunately, BF doesn't make it easy for non-paying members to share info in private. If I can figure out a way, I'll contact you. Thanks again and thanks for the input. One huge benefit of a forum like this is that it's so easy to get input from people around the world and from every walk of life. Take care.
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Dear jdk1, you are welcome. Peter Hathaway Capstick was right (as far as the pump-action is concerned). The knife is an absolutely essential tool. In hunting trips (it is just the same with the foot-trekking trip, except the need of a game-dressing knife in the former case, unless the trekking is combined with some hunting for meat in the camp etc.) the machete is a MUST. I remember that the natives in our groups (game scouts, camp keepers, assistants in our group) were using local made machetes in a very effective way. Becker CM-BK6 Patrol Machete is a very good example. According to my opinion except the machete, 1-2 big knives (bk-9 or SYKCO 911 etc.) have to be owned by 1-2 members of the trekking / hunting group (it is not an uneeded weight) as well as 1-2 folding saws. Except these – as in any other wildlife environment – it is a need, according to my humble opinion, for 2 blades (per person) at least: one small (not necessarily a folder) knife for the camp duties, food preparation, bushcrafting etc. (bk-11, bk-16, HRLM, etc.) and a medium knife (it has to be solid, durable, reliable) such as RatManDu, Scrapper 6, BK-7 (all of them are my personal preferences), or BK-2. Of course a reliable multi-tool is necessary.
 
Here is the description of the rifle Jeff Cooper carried while hunting in Africa.

Baby is my idea of an idealized heavy rifle intended for use on pachyderms and buffalo. It started life in Brno (Bohemia) as a "Czech 602" in caliber 375 H&H. This features the best version of the classic Mauser action that I know of. Among other things, it mounts a compacted ghost-ring rear-sight which is nowhere else available. Once in our hands the piece was re-barreled for caliber 460 G&A Special and restocked in classic Claro walnut. A five-shot extension magazine was mounted, together with a trigger-guard adaptor. This work was carried out by Georg Hoenig of Boise, Idaho, and the final assembly is wonderfully satisfying.

I find that I have transgressed upon the footprints of Sir Samuel Baker, who christened a favorite heavy rifle of his own as his Baby. I'm sorry about that, but I did not know of the mistake at the time. Today's Baby - the Gunsite Baby - is a very modern heavy rifle, weighing 10½lbs and starting a 500-grain bullet from its 22-inch barrel at an acceptable 2300f/s. You can easily raise this to 2400 if you wish, but this tends to break up available bullets when encountering massive bone.

Baby hits very hard - at both ends. Whether it kicks excessively depends of course upon the shooter. As we have long preached, subjective recoil - that is to say, recoil effect - is a personal matter. Fred Wells of Prescott, who specializes in great big guns, insists that recoil effect is 85 percent mental, and is best addressed as such. I am not sure about the percentage, but I do know that recoil can be mastered by the individual shooter, if the will is there. The trigger, which Georg Hoenig tuned, breaks cleanly without any trace of take-up or follow through, at 4½lbs. Some might prefer it to be a little lighter, but I do not think that would help things. The heavy rifle is intended for use on very large animals at ranges from arm's length to perhaps 50 yards. Usually the shot will be taken from offhand. Baby meets this requirement to perfection, as I have discovered personally in the field. This is the rifle which, on my 80th birthday, took two buffalo with two shots in 2 seconds. (How do I know it was 2 seconds? I don't, but I know how fast I can work the bolt, and I was working it just as fast as I could.) This rifle served to drop a running buff instantly with one shot at 125 yards. It is a thing of beauty, and will serve as the centerpiece for our proposed museum.
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-Jeff Cooper, 2006
 
Moose, does a .375 H&H levergun exist? That would be a monster:eek:, but awesome:D Now, you reminded me of the .376 Steyr Scout. THAT would be PERFECT. I forgot about it, but seems made for trekking among extra large critters. It seems that BK 7 offers a lot of utility and insurance. I've never handled a RBK, but it sure seems like a good all-around big blade. I can't imagine needing something done which those two can't do.

Hunter, thanks again. I appreciate the info on the machete. It appears that every thickly forested part of the world has some form of a machete. In photos of African hunting, I never see long blades, but they are usually in the Savannah. Also, the pics are usually of happy clients or studly guides, not over loaded gun bearers:) I would not have really thought a saw very important, so that's interesting. Would it be for firewood or shelter building/bomas? Thanks again, this thread continues to get better.
 
Gotta go with the BK-7 too. It's IMO the most versatile Becker. But I want it with a BK-11 piggybacked onto the sheath with paracord.

FT Turner Buck tomahawk. Light, fast, very tough and very sharp.

Ruger P97DC .45acp

Armalite AR-10
 
BK6, BK16, folding saw, Vic SAK Forrester.
.44mag: Super Redhawk or S&W 629 (Pre-95) w/4" barrel
Marlin 1895 with the .500 Alaskan customization package or Winchester Marine or SXP Defender shotgun.
sawyer backflushable in-line water filter and spare water bladder in case the primary one gets damaged.
permethrin impregnated clothing
x-static wicking base layer socks (3 pair) and heavy cusion wool socks (3 pair)
wicking skivvies
hat with 3.5" brim
altama jungle boots
sriracha in case I need to tone down some of the food.
unscented babywipes
coban/vetwrap, antibiotic creme, gauze, quick clot
shemag
titanium mess kit
I'm sure I'm forgetting some things
 
BK6, BK9, BK16 SG.

From the guns i own: Mossberg 930 SPX w/Bushnell TRS-25 red dot, GG&G looped sling attatchment, Specter Viper Sling & ssteel follower & Nordic Components barrel brace w/slugs, buckshot & some specialty rounds OR Springfield SOCOM II w/full length top rail, scope & vertical forend rail grip. Not pristine choices for guns, i know but it's what i gots ! LOL :D
 
(don't own one yet) but the bk 7 looks like a good choice, along with an m&p 45, and my ar with a light barred 14.5 300aac blackout upper and an acog (no batteries to worry about ;) )
 
jdk1 said:
Moose, does a .375 H&H levergun exist?
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I thought Marlin made one in a Model 336 Cowboy. I could be wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time.

Either way, a 45-70 or 444 would do just fine to, I think.

Moose
 
i'd probably want a 20 gauge shotgun with me. i'd lean towards a Benelli semi-auto, but would settle for a pump; OR a AK style 20 gauge with a box magazine. very good multi-purpose gun and rounds, accuracy more than adequate for game of all kinds, and other uses.

the Benelli's have a nice feature which let you drop in a quick shell change on the fly - let's say you have a lot of slugs, but you want some bird shot for a snake? push click, insert. though i might consider having some bird shot up front, and slugs as follow on. with box magazines, you can reload or swap quickly.

side-arms: probably a .44 magnum S&W. variety of loads possible from heavy 340 grain magnums to .44 specials. good for that last ditch close up stuff. sorry water buffalo.

Becker: duh, BK4 Machax - all you need. probably the BK15 or BK16 as a second. a true machete might be useful for actual jungle.

other gear: the usual for such a trek; i wouldn't attempt to invent a lot of this, i'd find out what is standard kit, and go from there. can't assume we have trees for hammocks, so tents are good; same for the rest of it.
 
Some type of long parang machete and a BK 15. Big camelback, 100 oz or more. I own a Ruger M77 in 30-06 and would not feel under gunned in most settings. However, since this is a wish list type of thing, I will pimp a local company - I would call up the boys at newultralight.com and order up a Model 40 African rifle - likely in 416 Rigby, maybe 375 H&H.
 
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