Becker speculation...

Glad to share Guyon!

You certainly seem to have a lifetime's supply of Maragni Steel!

Have you tried a BK77? (BK7 in S30V)
Never really made sense to me.
I doubt it would perform significantly better than a carbon steel BK7, except of course in corrosion resistance, but I have no facts to confirm it.

Anyone tried a comparison test between the 2?
 
Glad to share Guyon!

You certainly seem to have a lifetime's supply of Maragni Steel!

Have you tried a BK77? (BK7 in S30V)
Never really made sense to me.
I doubt it would perform significantly better than a carbon steel BK7, except of course in corrosion resistance, but I have no facts to confirm it.

Anyone tried a comparison test between the 2?

Nope, I finally found one NIB priced at $200, but just can't pull the trigger. Makes no sense to me either. I like S30V in a Spyderco or a Buck 110, maybe a Sebenza one of these days. But not in a big, survival-sized blade. I suspect the S30V might not perform as well in terms of chopping and batoning through wood.

Also, I know that Camillus had a good track record heat treating the 0170-6C/Carbon V. But I have no idea what their heat treatment might be like on the stainless stuff. Did Camillus put out many knives in S30V?

My wife carries a BK-7 in her day pack. The carbon steel version.
 
Guyon,

Rosconey2 is correct, the Dominator was also S30V.

I believe we did a good job on S30V in the atmosphere controlled furnace. It did not hurt that the Crucible factory was 3 miles down the road, & their tech guys loved to help us out for a knife or two!
 
For better or worse (worse, IMO) the US knife industry has changed a great deal in recent years, and I think it's going to be hard for Ethan to find a company that can produce the Becker line like Camillus did, and sell them for similar prices.

My guess is Ethan's best option would be to license production of a few of his designs on a more limited basis, adding improvements so as to make the knives more upscale and profitable. With blades like Rangers and Scrapyards out there now, competition at the more reasonably-priced end is pretty intense .... and given that some of Ethan's designs IMO are significantly better, I think they would adapt well to better blade steel, handle materials and sheaths.

Of course maybe I'm just hoping for a Becker Necker in A2 at 62HRC, or perhaps D2, with a choice of nice scales and sheath options. :)
 
... I think it's going to be hard for Ethan to find a company that can produce the Becker line like Camillus did, and sell them for similar prices.

... .... and given that some of Ethan's designs IMO are significantly better, I think they would adapt well to better blade steel, handle materials and sheaths.

Of course maybe I'm just hoping for a Becker Necker in A2 at 62HRC, or perhaps D2, with a choice of nice scales and sheath options. :)

well, let's look at it this way... the becker line has gone through a number of versions now... and people continue to love and use them. none of the older models REALLY attracted a lot of attention or price increases, except VERY lately, and that's only because of this edge/transition i'd guess. that perked up a bit, and people grabbed some but not always. ho hum :)

for example, a 2nd gen machax BK-4, post satin finish type, possibly the light powder coat (although i suspect the funky camp-panion BK-2 (tm) (that's how they spelled it in 1991)) "bead blasted and electroless nickeled" and then DEEPLY blued (or possibly nitride coated) was obtained not very long ago for $75 - that's with the fantastic eagle industries sheath - easily worth $45 by itself. recently, a similar model went for $150-175. that one was NIB. i've seen a few pending for sale for $150. these are the OLDER models. i've never seen a satin model for sale (whoa!). older campanions were in the $50 range, and i've seen several under $100. a few have gone by on ebay for around $75-130 lately. a few of the VERY rare items might command a bit more, but we're talking about the OLD OLD OLD and *absolutely* minty [like] NIB (and with box, sheath, papers, ...) - be aware - some sales are KNIFE ONLY, no sheath, no nothing.

compare to the camillus stuff - less expensive to finish, as they are coated, same good handles, inexpensive kydex sheaths for the most part, or not very expensive cloth sheaths with plastic inserts (no eagle or leather here kids). i can't see spending more than $100 on them right now, except for the machax BK-4 or the magnum camp BK-5 NIB (with BOX and sheaths)... except as a scarcity issue or strong desire to have one. almost all of my camillus generation beckers... let me ponder ... yes, i don't recall paying mover $90 for any of them. even recently... patrol machete BK-6 NIB, a tactool BK-2b for $65, older divetools BK-2a for $60, a BK-10 for $35, and so on. didja know there are at least two variants of each for the BK-2s (two sizes, different features even, as well as multiple sheaths).

very lately, i've seen a patrol machete for $75, camillus machaxen for $100-150, magnum camps for $100, and so on. lots of people have them, and just flipping them, as the time is right. they made TONS of these, and i expect to see tons hit the market. wait. plenty to go around, well made, hard to use up.

so, i SOOOO hope ethan finds a home to make more items. this will represent yet ANOTHER generation of knives. MAYBE certain older ones will be worth something? maybe. it might mean even more camillus holdouts being sold, as people might want a D2 brute (drool) and "trade up"... yar. i expect, in order to attract attention, initially they might have to be sold near cost (loss leader), and have a few upgrades from camillus. like, better finishes and grinds, better sheaths, possibly different steals. 1095 is fantastic, and the C-V stuff is downright terrific. better? stainless is not better ;) it's just ... different. want better? swedish laminated steel :> yah.

i have recently unearthed a number of older becker flyers and letters. a 1991 pamphlet listing the machax, camp-panion, tactul, divtul, with complete specs, materials, etc. sweet. this is back in the cincinnati days. ethan's photo then is *precious* :) a letter of 1992 indicating blackjack ownership and changes. jump to 2001, next fliers, listing different and new models. woo. several of those from 2001-2004 or so. i intend to scan and host those for perusual in the near future. that, combined with other findings (thanx guyon), should provide for a very complete FAQ that we all (i'll help start it), on the Becker Family tree. Someone should archive the Camillus/Becker listings before they are taken down (if they are). Just a thought.

who wants to ditch some users? ;) new stuff coming. someday.

bladite
 
I've just tried to buy one of everything and double up on the users. I found something I like that's not too expensive to make a modest collection of. While I'm being much of a camper or survivalist I am a hunter and my user knives have served admirably in that regard. I've had the best utility from my BK11 and BK9 respectively...
 
So... Cold Steels secret 7 step heat treatmant method was also used with the Becker line? i always speculated about that!
 
Aha. The truth is out.

Thanks for posting again Phil. I understand you look 10 years younger now that you moved to Arkansas! Must be the sunlight!
 
True Anthony, the sunlight is good, & working for A.G. is the BEST.

But, to tell you the truth, not working for those $#%& @#?*&% @!#*#@ :jerkit: in upstate NY is the best thing that ever happened to me!
 
PS I was also kicked out of hell for selling ice cubes, that’s why I joined the Marine Corp.

My apologies if I offended anyone I didn’t mean to be a salesman.:grumpy:

Tom
Chestnut Ridge Knife Shop

Welcome back *smack on the cheek*
 
Carbon V definately came first. It was the brainchild of the Metal God, Dan Maragni, & was, in my opinion, what put Cold Steel on the map all those years ago.

When Cold Steel came to Camillus to make their carbon steel knives, they did not want to pay for the vast amount of steel that had to be purchased in order to have a custom steel made to their specifications.
Consequently Cold Steel agreed that Camillus could also use the steel (& pay them a royalty, I believe) but could not call it Carbon V.

I came up with the name 0170-6C, based on an almost close (but NOT) steel produced by Sharron Steel called 0170-6.

All this is historical trivia.

The real issue for those who understand is Heat Treatment!

The reason that the Camillus Beckers perform so well is that Dan Maragni set up a system of heat treatment at Camillus for the Cold Steel knives, & oversaw almost every batch of knives produced. What we learnt about heat treating Cold Steel seeped over to the Becker knives.
All that is now lost forever!

In my humble opinion, the values of the Camillus Beckers may not rise significantly in the collector market, but for those interested in a high performance user, get them while you can. Without Maragni's methods, I don't care what a future maker of Beckers uses, they will just be well designed carbon steel knives covered in powder coat!

I dearly hope I am wrong & the new maker will consider trying to improve their methods. Time will tell..............

This idea that Carbon V came first is silly.

Steve
 
Steve, you really should read further. This steel is explained by Mr. Gibbs much better than I have ever seen it explained. I believe he has the knowledge and experience as a designer and knows metalurgy well enough to know what is what. Since you are a relatively FNG here, I understand that probably his reputation has eluded your attention. It might be worth your while to do a bit of research before you start opening cans of whatever.

Codger
 
Hi you Ole Codger *smile*

Thank you for your consideration. I am not convinced. I have seen too many "egg spurts" with a good story, come along and make a millon selling reptile oil.

After they stop trying to sell the product using magical, mystical, secret formulas....then I will start to believe.

Just patent the stuff and stop relying on advertising.
 
Steve, Mr. Gibbs is not your run-of-the-mill self-proclaimed egg-spurt. He is a renowned knife designer who holds more than a few patents. He also has designed machinery and processes for knife production. And worked closely with metalurgists for years. As far as I am concerned, Phil has paid his dues and is deserving of our respect. He is not a snake oil salesman, or some publisher's hack. He is not an advertising agent for a knife manufacturer or a steel company.

To say that all carbon steel alloys are the same is folly. One might as well say there is no difference in the design and performance of a Ford Pinto and a Pantera. After all, both are cars.

Codger
 
Back
Top