Becker U.S.N. prototype

Ok here we go.

Its a long story and its going to take three nice and minty blackjack beckers to fully explain everything.

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Here are some better photos of the blade.
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Lets start off with where I got it. I got it from a guy who happens to live in the same state as Mike. Although there are several hours between them, make any speculations you want from that...

I don't actually know the seller and we didn't talk much. I first ran across him when he tried to sell me a black coated divtul a long time ago (I even made a thread about it here). I wasn't sure it was legit then, but I am sure now (more on that later). All that he knew about this blade was that is was meant to be a dive knife.

*EDIT here is the link to that thread* All the way back in 2015!

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/blackjack-bk3-with-black-coating.1271653/

A dive knife from blackjack fits all the stories I've heard. I have found things online from both Ethan and Mike saying they have been selling tons of divtuls to divers because they make an amazing dive knife even though they were really made to be a sharpened pry bar. So it makes sense that blackjack would be considering making another knife just for the divers.

Here is the quote.

"ResqDivTul: We sold a lot to divers, because they worked well as dive knives. Most people don't realize that what a diver needs most is a pry bar. This is one of the best dive knives you could get-when you ask divers, they'll tell you they need a pry bar more often than they need a cutting edge. And this one works well as a pry bar; also, it's good for cutting yourself out if you get tangled in line. The ResqDivTul is made of hardened steel; most dive knives are made of 304 stainless, which won't take or hold an edge. This one will"

I also have found quotes saying they submitted the divtul to the SEALs and FBI and all sorts of government agencies. The only ones they said actually used them were the SEALs and FBI hostage rescue teams (this is important for later). So if they were submitting designs to the Navy, the U.S.N. makes perfect senses.

So far I do believe this "becker dive knife" (as I've come to call it) was a prototype dive knife and there seems to be a legit reason why the U.S.N. is on the blade.

Ok so why am I going on and on about the divtul and not this prototype. Well time to spill the beans... I believe this blade was made from a divtul blank. The cord grabber hook gives it away. When you lay it on top of a divtul they just about match up on the standard divtul with powder coat. On the black coated divtul, they match almost perfectly.

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If you look at the choil in the photo below, it has a dip in the left corner the grinder didn't take out. That dip matches the start of the chisel grind on the regular divtul.

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Despite the fact that it looks to be in great condition for its age, I do still believe it was made by blackjack. I really do not think this was altered or changed by anyone years later for better value.

If it is made from a divtul blank then it's 440a stainless, so no patina from age. It also would make sense of the stainless hardware only found on the divtul.

The only thing that's off is that the dive knife prototype is just a bit longer. However, these blades come from a time when "handmade in the USA" meant more than it does now. So like most blackjack beckers, they might not all be within the same levels of tolerances. Lots of the grind lines on my blackjacks are different even though they are the same blade. If Mike was around that day it probably meant the "one of a kind" stamp was pulled out haha.

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Anyway, the new bladeforums won't let me post more than 10 photos now so part two is coming!

I'll be editing out grammar and spelling errors all night haha.
 
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So how do I know the black coating is legit? Because it's the same black coating that's on one of my divtuls and I CAN prove that that one is legit.

The department of defense ordered a bunch of divtuls from blackjack. They apparently had two alterations they requested.

1. Black blades to match the uniforms
2. Deeper cut serrations

Here is the quote about that.

Screen Shot 2017-05-11 at 11.09.47 PM copy.png

Here is the actual order form! Its hard to read but you can make out that it's from the department of defense and they requested deeper serrations.

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This black divtul does indeed have deeper cut serrations than the standard model as seen below.

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The black coating on the divtul does indeed match the black coating on the dive knife. So I'm calling it legit.

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Side note, something I can't account for: the black blade divtul is made from much thinner stock than the standard .25" divtul. Anyone ever see a divtul from blackjack not .25" thick?

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So that's it take what you want from it.
 
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i hope Ethan got his cut, that's all i'm saying ;)
 
knifejunkie1928 You presented a great case, with fantastic evidence. It was like a suspense novel I couldn't put down. I'm one juror on your side.
 
I hope the same, but knowing how mike ran things... I doubt it...

"Bill, This is for your collection, Mark said that if you publish it he will hunt you down like a sog!" Jodi

I think I know who these people are ;)

Apparently, someone managed to ... uh ... acquire a metric fuckton of Becker stuff from when Blackjack was around and they've been selling it off Ebay for a long long long time now. Ethan most likely never saw a penny of that action.

750? that's far more than any estimate i've seen for even the original knives (magnum camp, machax, and such)...

there's a guy had a website a while ago that seemed to be selling "special beckers", Ethan figured he knew who that was, and commented that the guy was just trying to make a buck after all these decades of warehousing knives. irrc. imagine sitting on tons of ... uh ... neglected/surplus/seconds merchandise. i should now check ebay for current / past sales ;) they tried to sell me a Machax once that was fractured. nice.

weird. history. one offs.

i've seen a couple handfuls of people buying older knives and attempting to pass them off as older models. in particular, one shit was taking Camillus BK5s, stripping them, drilling the hole, and selling them to surplus / second Kenny Rowe (sp) sheaths.
 
one thing to note, the etching looks too modern.

if they could do that back then, why didn't any of the sterile knives made then have the same markings?

that edge looks boutique new, at least in the pictures

wouldn't surprise me someone got a hold of some blanks and has been making history.

i'm rather leery, but hey, good score anyway. i hope you didn't pay an arm and leg for it.
 
It's not a secret that I got this on eBay, you guys can look up how much I paid for it. However, I don't think this guy was trying to make some new history. It appeared like he didn't know what he had. He didn't have the word "becker" anywhere in the listing only BK&T. He gave no information about the knife at all. I would think he would try to hype it up if he wanted to remake some history and make some $$$. Still, I could be wrong.

I asked the guy if he had any other beckers he was going to sell. He said he didn't think he had anymore.

I agree with you the etching seems too modern. Although it does fit the story, I truly can't prove it. The edge is also is great shape which is fishy. Maybe the seller put a more polished edge on it before selling, maybe not.

I guess to me the black coating proves it was made in the blackjack factory meaning its a legit prototype. It probably is more likely than not the etching and finer edge was not done in the factory. It sets my mind more at ease knowing that the real butchering of this divtul into the prototype was done by blackjack and not some after market scammer.

Here is some links to where I got some of the info. Some of it was just searching super old posts from here on blade forums. Some of you guys might find this stuff interesting.

Here is one badass looking prototype.

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And this just pisses me off...

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http://www.fightingknives.info/kniv...-g/bark-river-bk-t/categoryid/44#.WRaC1ztEW7Y
 
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Its not secret I got this on eBay you guys can look up how much I paid for it. However, I don't think this guy was trying to make some new history. It didn't appeared like he didn't know what he had. He didn't have the word "becker" anywhere in the listing only BK&T. He gave no information about the knife at all. I would think he would try to hype it up if he wanted to remake some history and make some $$$. Still I could be wrong.

I asked the guy if he had any other beckers he was going to sell. He said he didn't think he had anymore.

I agree with you the etching seems too modern. Although it does fit the story, I truly can't prove it. The edge is also is great shape which is fishy. maybe the seller put a more polished edge on it before selling. maybe not.

Here is some links to where I got some of the info. Some of it was just searching super old posts from here on blade forums. Some of you guys might find this stuff interesting.

Here is one badass looking prototype.

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And this just pisses me off...

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http://www.fightingknives.info/kniv...-g/bark-river-bk-t/categoryid/44#.WRaC1ztEW7Y


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Haha I was watching that one too. Looks like it just sold... did the mod just pick up a new becker?

i was watching it too :D

satin? nah. sandblast? yes.

Blackjack did Chrome, and Parkerized, and sandblast finishes... at least on Beckers.

i don't recall them ever doing powder coat actually. officially. nor satin.

Chrome stuff is rare. Parkerized is less rare, but still not common. they went right to sterile epoxy for a bit (no marks at at, per Ethan: couldn't figure out how to mark it".

CNC digiital tooling they did not have then.

i can "print" any document using my laser carver onto nearly any material, in raster or vector. perhaps i'll mark up a 50 yo knife ;)
 
plus if you want angry, goto Lowes, and look up "batoning chisels" :D
 
This has been an amazing thread. I hope at some point resolution happens.
 
The only way this can get more resolute is if I call up mike and ask him about it. I really don't want to talk to mike.

Hopefully I can get me and this blade to blade show. We can see if Ethan knows anything about this, all who are there are welcome to fondle it ;).
 
The only way this can get more resolute is if I call up mike and ask him about it. I really don't want to talk to mike.

Hopefully I can get me and this blade to blade show. We can see if Ethan knows anything about this, all who are there are welcome to fondle it ;).

You could contact him through Facebook
 
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