Beginner to knife sharpening - a few questions

[Jtsessions]

Hello, Bladeforums!

I've just gotten big into knife sharpening and am really starting to be able to consistently put a sharp (but ugly as hell) edge on my knives. I'm really enthusiastic and intrigued by how much manual skill and dexterity sharpening can demand, and I have a few questions that I can't seem to find the answer to anywhere else. I'll throw them out here; Feel free to pick at them in no particular order/without answering all of them!

1. At times, the bevels on my blades will gently roll up to a different angle midway or 1/3 of the way up the blade. It's not a drastic angle change, but you can tell by the reflection of light that the bevel is not all on one plane. I use both hands and try very hard to create a smooth, consistent angle, but it seems that I am unable to create one. Any idea what may be causing this?

2. With american tantos, is there any way to make the secondary point more prominent/restore light rounding through sharpening? I sharpened the upper edge last night and it seemed to do this for my recon 1, and I'd like to know how to repair it in the event that I have to do so.

3. I currently have a ~350/650/800/1000 grit set of basic stones (smith's tri-hone and smith's 4" sharpener). Thoughts on whether I should pick up a higher grit stone or a leather strop for touching the blades up and putting super fine edges on them?

4. My current stones use oil, and included a 2" tall bottle. I put enough oil on the stone so that I have a light excess film that can fluidly run over the stone to keep the particles of metal suspended off of the surface and out of the pores. Doing it like this, I was only able to get ~4 sharpening sessions in (since I have three stones to work with) before it seems that I'm nearly out of oil. (Before you worry, I bought a crappy knife to repeatedly try to sharpen for practice - I'm not sharpening THAT often!) At a couple of dollars per bottle, it seems rather expensive to practice like this, but I don't want to clog the pores in the stone and mess up my stones - what can I do about this?

5. Similarly, what can I do about the cost of diamond paste for stropping? If I get a strop, is stropping without paste helpful? Is the paste even expensive?

I haven't been able to find clear-cut answers to these questions in my case yet, and I appreciate the wisdom of those of you with more experience than me. Thanks so much for your time and help!

 

[bgentry]

1. Two tips to help you keep a more consistent angle:
A. Use the hand that is NOT holding the handle of the blade to press down on the edge of the blade, *right* where it meets the stone. If you do this properly it will kind of "click" into place. Your fingers can feel when the blade is touching the stone. Keeping it there should insure that you cut a flat consistent bevel.
B. Minimizing any motion other than back and forth in parallel with the surface of the stone is one key to making very consistent angles. For freehand this means locking your wrist. ...and your elbow. ...and your shoulder! So what's left to move with? Your body. I get the absolute best edges by doing my sharpening by moving my whole body back and forth, keeping my arm/shoulder/wrist essentially locked in place, using my body as a platform. Some version of this might work really well for you.

2. You are asking about the point between the front blade surface and the rear blade surface I think. Trying to make that point extra pointy? The idea for all points is to never drag abrasive *over* them. Sharpen the long section at the back all the way to the point and *stop* before you roll over it. Sharpen the front section from tip to rear and *stop* before you roll over the back point. Doing this consistently should yield a very sharp point. If you need help visualizing it, use a 10x or so loupe to look at that point and see what part is rounded and needs to be ground off to make it a sharp point again. Observation is key to great results in sharpening.

Brian.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Hello, Bladeforums!

I've just gotten big into knife sharpening and am really starting to be able to consistently put a sharp (but ugly as hell) edge on my knives. I'm really enthusiastic and intrigued by how much manual skill and dexterity sharpening can demand, and I have a few questions that I can't seem to find the answer to anywhere else. I'll throw them out here; Feel free to pick at them in no particular order/without answering all of them!

1. At times, the bevels on my blades will gently roll up to a different angle midway or 1/3 of the way up the blade. It's not a drastic angle change, but you can tell by the reflection of light that the bevel is not all on one plane. I use both hands and try very hard to create a smooth, consistent angle, but it seems that I am unable to create one. Any idea what may be causing this?

You're seeing the natural convexing that will always happen when sharpening 'freehand'; without a fixed-angle guide, in other words. No harm in it, necessarily, so long as the apex itself remains crisp & pure. Many here, including myself, actually prefer some convex in the bevels anyway. It's not a bad thing.

2. With american tantos, is there any way to make the secondary point more prominent/restore light rounding through sharpening? I sharpened the upper edge last night and it seemed to do this for my recon 1, and I'd like to know how to repair it in the event that I have to do so.

Might be worth posting some clear & close-up pics of your blade and it's edge, to provide some more detail about what you're seeing & describing. That'll help generate some more helpful feedback for you.

3. I currently have a ~350/650/800/1000 grit set of basic stones (smith's tri-hone and smith's 4" sharpener). Thoughts on whether I should pick up a higher grit stone or a leather strop for touching the blades up and putting super fine edges on them?

A strop & compound, at least, is never a bad thing. Whether you need more stones depends on a lot of factors, such as what finish you desire for your edges, and what steels you're planning to sharpen with them. This is also important in determining which compound(s) will work best for you, in stropping.

4. My current stones use oil, and included a 2" tall bottle. I put enough oil on the stone so that I have a light excess film that can fluidly run over the stone to keep the particles of metal suspended off of the surface and out of the pores. Doing it like this, I was only able to get ~4 sharpening sessions in (since I have three stones to work with) before it seems that I'm nearly out of oil. (Before you worry, I bought a crappy knife to repeatedly try to sharpen for practice - I'm not sharpening THAT often!) At a couple of dollars per bottle, it seems rather expensive to practice like this, but I don't want to clog the pores in the stone and mess up my stones - what can I do about this?

'Honing Oil' is just mineral oil; usually it's what's called 'light mineral oil', which just means it's somewhat more 'liquid' (less viscous) than other 'heavy' mineral oils, such as the type often sold as a laxative. Mineral oil can be bought cheaply at home centers or hardware stores, in much larger quantity for a much more reasonable price. I wouldn't waste too much money on the small cans/bottles of branded 'honing oils'; you're just paying for the packaging and special branding, for the most part.

5. Similarly, what can I do about the cost of diamond paste for stropping? If I get a strop, is stropping without paste helpful? Is the paste even expensive?
I haven't been able to find clear-cut answers to these questions in my case yet, and I appreciate the wisdom of those of you with more experience than me. Thanks so much for your time and help!

A very little bit of diamond paste will go a very, very long way. Being diamond, it'll never wear out, per se. The strop will will need a periodic wipedown, to remove most of the black swarf (metal). But, the diamond in the paste will remain embedded on your strop for a very long time. Should last a few hundred sessions at least, between re-application. It's easy to test if your strop compound is still viable, by rubbing the edge of an oxidized penny on the strop. If the compound is still there and working, it'll shine up the copper in a hurry.


David

 

[Jtsessions]

2. You are asking about the point between the front blade surface and the rear blade surface I think. Trying to make that point extra pointy? The idea for all points is to never drag abrasive *over* them. Sharpen the long section at the back all the way to the point and *stop* before you roll over it. Sharpen the front section from tip to rear and *stop* before you roll over the back point. Doing this consistently should yield a very sharp point. If you need help visualizing it, use a 10x or so loupe to look at that point and see what part is rounded and needs to be ground off to make it a sharp point again. Observation is key to great results in sharpening.
Brian.

Thank you for your feedback and suggestions, Brian; I'll try the body technique!

When you say to stop before I roll over the point, does that mean that if I slide the blade across the stone from the base of the blade to the end, it'll be ok as long as I'm still sharpening parallel to the secondary point? I've heard people say not to "roll over" it before but wasn't sure what they meant, exactly.

A strop & compound, at least, is never a bad thing. Whether you need more stones depends on a lot of factors, such as what finish you desire for your edges, and what steels you're planning to sharpen with them. This is also important in determining which compound(s) will work best for you, in stropping.

A very little bit of diamond paste will go a very, very long way. Being diamond, it'll never wear out, per se. The strop will will need a periodic wipedown, to remove most of the black swarf (metal). But, the diamond in the paste will remain embedded on your strop for a very long time. Should last a few hundred sessions at least, between re-application. It's easy to test if your strop compound is still viable, by rubbing the edge of an oxidized penny on the strop. If the compound is still there and working, it'll shine up the copper in a hurry.

David

Thanks David, very informative!

I'm working with 1095 cro-van and aus8 on a ka-bar 5054 and a cold steel recon 1.

Thank you for the mineral oil tip; That makes me feel far more confident about practicing with oil. How much oil should I be using? I assume that what I described earlier is perfect, because it's hard to suspend the metal particles if it's just enough oil to soak into the stone.

And woah, if I'm hearing you right, I can apply diamond paste to the strop and just clean it off from time to time? I thought I'd need paste per application!

Any recommendations for a good price/value strop and diamond paste to begin with?


Thanks so much!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

(...)
Thanks David, very informative!

I'm working with 1095 cro-van and aus8 on a ka-bar 5054 and a cold steel recon 1.

These steels should be pretty easy with most stones and stropping compounds. Most of your decision in this case, as to whether you need/want more stones, should be determined by what finish you desire. If you're just looking for high-quality utility edges, I'd think your current set should handle it. If going for mirrrored bevels, a very tight grit sequence up through UF or higher grit would make the most difference, plus perhaps a sequence of very fine-grit stropping compounds following that. A 'white rouge', or polishing paste like Flitz/Simichrome, or a green compound of high quality should work well for final polishing.

Thank you for the mineral oil tip; That makes me feel far more confident about practicing with oil. How much oil should I be using? I assume that what I described earlier is perfect, because it's hard to suspend the metal particles if it's just enough oil to soak into the stone.

Yes, it's best to allow yourself to use the mineral oil as liberally as you feel you need to. To some extent, it's a preference issue. Also, some stones are more prone to clogging if not kept well-oiled (Arkansas stones, inexpensive aluminum oxide stones), so using more with those is a good idea. Other stones won't necessarily clog as easily, and/or are easier to clean up and un-clog if need be.

And woah, if I'm hearing you right, I can apply diamond paste to the strop and just clean it off from time to time? I thought I'd need paste per application!

Any recommendations for a good price/value strop and diamond paste to begin with?


Thanks so much!

Definitely no need to re-apply diamond compound every time (perish the thought). The commercially-available diamond compounds come in small packages, because they'll last a good, long time. Obviously, this makes it more affordable as well. Brands like DMT (Dia-Paste) and Hand American (pastes and sprays) have a very good reputation. There are at least a couple of current active threads on diamond paste stropping; might check them out as well.

As far as a strop itself goes, just make sure it's very firm (not too soft, and won't compress easily), smooth and holds compound well. Lots and lots of alternatives available; can strop on leather, paper, wood, cardboard and other materials. DMT actually recommends using their diamond paste on wood, like balsa or MDF. Leather can be used, but make sure it's firm, so your edges won't get rounded off (this will be compounded by the greater aggressiveness of diamond, as well).


David

 

[Jtsessions]

These steels should be pretty easy with most stones and stropping compounds. Most of your decision in this case, as to whether you need/want more stones, should be determined by what finish you desire. If you're just looking for high-quality utility edges, I'd think your current set should handle it. If going for mirrrored bevels, a very tight grit sequence up through UF or higher grit would make the most difference, plus perhaps a sequence of very fine-grit stropping compounds following that. A 'white rouge', or polishing paste like Flitz/Simichrome, or a green compound of high quality should work well for final polishing.

David

Thanks again!

I wouldn't mind having the stones and stropping tools to take the edges to the next level, even if I don't exactly need them to be in that shape to have a good working edge.

I'm assuming UF is ultrafine - I'm a little unfamiliar with how terms like this are quantified. It may make more sense to me if there's a certain grit that defines that range - what grit stones would make a good compliment to my current set for really putting the sheen on my edges?

You mentioned simichrome; I've heard of people using it to polish the sides of a blade for aesthetic purposes. I'm assuming that you'd just treat the entire blade, including the bevel, if you were using something like that, yeah?

Thanks again; I really appreciate your advice so far!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks again!

I wouldn't mind having the stones and stropping tools to take the edges to the next level, even if I don't exactly need them to be in that shape to have a good working edge.

I'm assuming UF is ultrafine - I'm a little unfamiliar with how terms like this are quantified. It may make more sense to me if there's a certain grit that defines that range - what grit stones would make a good compliment to my current set for really putting the sheen on my edges?

Thanks again; I really appreciate your advice so far!

Yes, 'UF' is ultra-fine. Might also see it described as 'EF' (extra-fine) or even 'EEF' (extra-extra-fine). The brand is usually what makes the difference in what descriptions are used. The ceramics from Spyderco, in Fine/UF are popular for polishing most edges, and the black hard and/or translucent Arkansas stones also make good final polishing stones. Other types or brands of 'UF' or 'EF' or 'EEF' stones can sometimes be difficult to predict, in terms of how much they actually refine an edge or polish bevels. For diamond hones, since diamond is hardest and works more aggressively than any other type, even the EF/EEF hones will leave a more visibile scratch pattern for their grit ratings. For polished edges using those, it's always best to follow with a sequence of diamond stropping compounds (like DMT's 6/3/1 micron pastes, for example).


David

 

[jobasha11]

Use water instead of oil. It does the same thing but its free! As for tips on sharpening most everything has been said

 

[Portman30-06]

1. Its just done through experience. 3. Most finishing stones are 4000-6000 grit stones. 4. Use water instead of their oil.

 

[Jtsessions]

Alright, great!

As for using water instead of oil, I've heard the same but had always heard that you should then apply oil to the stone and scrub it clean, which would mean I'd need oil anyways (or risk pore blockage) Anything to combat this?

And as for diamond paste stropping, what number/grit should I look for?

Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Alright, great!

As for using water instead of oil, I've heard the same but had always heard that you should then apply oil to the stone and scrub it clean, which would mean I'd need oil anyways (or risk pore blockage) Anything to combat this?

And as for diamond paste stropping, what number/grit should I look for?

Thanks again, everyone!

Actual 'oilstones' will often be pre-oiled from the factory. If so, those are ordinarily used with oil afterwards, as water will just bead up on them and roll off. There are methods to 'un-oil' a new oil stone, such as boiling (that's another topic altogether). If your stones came un-oiled (dry), that's the best time to choose either oil or water to lube them and keep them unclogged. For me personally, I live in the desert southwest of the USA. The most obvious downside to using water on stones is that it evaporates very fast (a minute or two), which makes staying ahead of clogging issues much more challenging. Using a 'light mineral oil' is additionally easier to get along with, because they are easier to clean up afterwards, with dish soap and water. This is what I usually do with my un-oiled (when new) stones, to keep them clean. I wash them after each sharpening session. Letting an oiled stone go too long between cleanings will mean a tougher job getting them clean later on. Ultimately, the stone's performance will tell you if it's staying un-clogged and/or clean enough. If it's getting clogged quickly, you'll see a big drop-off in it's working speed.

Diamond pastes useful for stropping will usually be rated in single-digit microns (<10) or less, down to fractions of a micron in size (like 0.5, 0.25 and sometimes smaller). Coarser diamond compounds could be found, but they'll usually not be useful for finish-stropping of knife edges. For mirrored edges, sub-micron grits are best for that, in the final stages. Good or excellent working edges, maybe not quite fully mirrored, can be done with grit sizes in the 1-6 micron range.


David

 

[Jtsessions]

Actual 'oilstones' will often be pre-oiled from the factory. If so, those are ordinarily used with oil afterwards, as water will just bead up on them and roll off. There are methods to 'un-oil' a new oil stone, such as boiling (that's another topic altogether). If your stones came un-oiled (dry), that's the best time to choose either oil or water to lube them and keep them unclogged. For me personally, I live in the desert southwest of the USA. The most obvious downside to using water on stones is that it evaporates very fast (a minute or two), which makes staying ahead of clogging issues much more challenging. Using a 'light mineral oil' is additionally easier to get along with, because they are easier to clean up afterwards, with dish soap and water. This is what I usually do with my un-oiled (when new) stones, to keep them clean. I wash them after each sharpening session. Letting an oiled stone go too long between cleanings will mean a tougher job getting them clean later on. Ultimately, the stone's performance will tell you if it's staying un-clogged and/or clean enough. If it's getting clogged quickly, you'll see a big drop-off in it's working speed.

Diamond pastes useful for stropping will usually be rated in single-digit microns (<10) or less, down to fractions of a micron in size (like 0.5, 0.25 and sometimes smaller). Coarser diamond compounds could be found, but they'll usually not be useful for finish-stropping of knife edges. For mirrored edges, sub-micron grits are best for that, in the final stages. Good or excellent working edges, maybe not quite fully mirrored, can be done with grit sizes in the 1-6 micron range.


David

Gotcha!

So if I use water to lubricate the stone, I can just clean it with dish soap and water afterwards (no oil required)? Will I see any difference in the performance of the stone?

I'll look for a <1 micron grit for mirrored edges then.

Thank you!

EDIT: I've also heard people talking about "strop dressing"...should I pick any of that up as well?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Gotcha!

So if I use water to lubricate the stone, I can just clean it with dish soap and water afterwards (no oil required)? Will I see any difference in the performance of the stone?

I'll look for a <1 micron grit for mirrored edges then.

Thank you!

Yes. For cleaning, water + dish soap works well. When using the stone again, that's the time to apply some fresh oil. Assuming your stone was somewhat dirty and/or clogged before, you should hopefully see it working better after cleaning.

For much dirtier/heavily-clogged stones, I think some here have used solvents like kerosene or lighter fluid to more aggressively clean them (with scrubbing). This is why I try to clean mine after each session, with gentler & simpler means like soap & water. It's a lot easier, if you stay ahead of it.

And to clarify, the sub-micron diamond stropping compounds will work much better if used at the end of a tight grit sequence (coarse > medium > fine > ef > eef > etc). The narrower the jumps in grit are, when sharpening on the stones, the better the results at the finish will be. Very fine stropping compounds won't remove very coarse scratches from the stones by themselves, so each step down in grit size needs to completely erase/replace the scratches from previous coarser grits. Baby steps, in other words...


David

 

[Jtsessions]

Gotcha, that makes sense.

What if I -just- use water to take care of swarf? Is there any way to use arkansas stones with water only and at no point use oil? Would simplify things greatly.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Gotcha, that makes sense.

What if I -just- use water to take care of swarf? Is there any way to use arkansas stones with water only and at no point use oil? Would simplify things greatly.

Doesn't hurt to try it. Might also try water + dish soap for that, as well. None of it will hurt the stones. Many here use water + dish soap, especially on diamond hones. The feedback or 'feel' on the stones might influence which method you choose to stick with, as well.


David

 

[Jtsessions]

I see.

Going back to #1, the main problem that I'm having with an inconsistent bevel angle is that it seems that a burr develops on the mid/upper section of the blade and not the lower, and that will inevitably hurt the sharpness of the blade down low :S Any ideas?

Thank you so much for all your help so far; Been practicing some of these things today!

I'm a bit discouraged, as it seems that no matter how hard I try to keep the bevel angle even (and it seems -really even- now thanks to above advice!), no matter how fine a grit stone I work up to (doing the finishing step on a 1000 grit atm), no matter what type of strokes I use, no matter which of the knives I try, there's this plateau that I simply cannot pass. At that point, my knife will slice paper at an angle about 50% of the time, but it's nowhere near the "shaving sharp" many people seem to be able to get a knife to at 1000 grit with good steel. It's totally my fault, but I have no idea what I'm doing wrong so that I can improve. The bevel looks even, the angles seem to be the same, I'm forming a burr and then leveling it on the opposite side...what could I be doing wrong?

 

[HeavyHanded]

Hello, Bladeforums!

I've just gotten big into knife sharpening and am really starting to be able to consistently put a sharp (but ugly as hell) edge on my knives. I'm really enthusiastic and intrigued by how much manual skill and dexterity sharpening can demand, and I have a few questions that I can't seem to find the answer to anywhere else. I'll throw them out here; Feel free to pick at them in no particular order/without answering all of them!

1. At times, the bevels on my blades will gently roll up to a different angle midway or 1/3 of the way up the blade. It's not a drastic angle change, but you can tell by the reflection of light that the bevel is not all on one plane. I use both hands and try very hard to create a smooth, consistent angle, but it seems that I am unable to create one. Any idea what may be causing this?

2. With american tantos, is there any way to make the secondary point more prominent/restore light rounding through sharpening? I sharpened the upper edge last night and it seemed to do this for my recon 1, and I'd like to know how to repair it in the event that I have to do so.

3. I currently have a ~350/650/800/1000 grit set of basic stones (smith's tri-hone and smith's 4" sharpener). Thoughts on whether I should pick up a higher grit stone or a leather strop for touching the blades up and putting super fine edges on them?

4. My current stones use oil, and included a 2" tall bottle. I put enough oil on the stone so that I have a light excess film that can fluidly run over the stone to keep the particles of metal suspended off of the surface and out of the pores. Doing it like this, I was only able to get ~4 sharpening sessions in (since I have three stones to work with) before it seems that I'm nearly out of oil. (Before you worry, I bought a crappy knife to repeatedly try to sharpen for practice - I'm not sharpening THAT often!) At a couple of dollars per bottle, it seems rather expensive to practice like this, but I don't want to clog the pores in the stone and mess up my stones - what can I do about this?

5. Similarly, what can I do about the cost of diamond paste for stropping? If I get a strop, is stropping without paste helpful? Is the paste even expensive?

I haven't been able to find clear-cut answers to these questions in my case yet, and I appreciate the wisdom of those of you with more experience than me. Thanks so much for your time and help!

1 - this is normal, try to shorten the length of your stroke. This will do 2 things, prevent a lot of your oil from just rolling off the side of the stone, and reduce the mechanical error that is going to be inherent in freehand sharpening. A short scrubbing motion (see Murray Carter videos) will do wonders for angle consistency. Less travel, less mechanical correction. Work in smaller stretches of the blade and overlap as you go - you'll never see the overlap, if anything your bevels will be more uniform for it.

2 - see #1. Improving your angle control will help keep the Tanto tip (or Scandi tip) from becoming too rounded. What you are seeing is just the natural freehand rounding on a larger scale. The advice to let the fingertips of the drive, or support hand do most of the work is sound IMHO. They are right on top of the grind area and will have the most tactile feedback. The hand holding the handle should be subordinate to the fingertips of the drive hand - this can be a tough one to learn, as the hand holding the handle is usually the dominant hand and will try to "take over" if you aren't on top of it. Don't let it.

3 - a strop is not a bad idea, no need for diamond compound unless you're working high carbide steels. For most carbon and stainless, a common aluminum oxide compound will work very well if not better - Flexcut Gold is a safe bet. This stuff works well on a wide variety of steels. To get your feet wet, just wrap a sheet of copy paper or writing paper around one of your stones and apply compound to that. When it loads up, toss the paper or recycle it. Get a cased leather strop later, after you've gained some mastery over the process (if you feel the need - I gave up leather a long time ago and haven't gone back. Unless shooting for a "shave ready" edge I am not convinced its necessary or even desirable).

4 - the mineral oil sold in the grocery store or pharmacy might be touch higher viscosity than the "honing oil" but will work just fine. With a bit of work it breaks down and its viscosity will drop anyway as long as you're not sluicing it off the stone too often with fresh oil. Water is not the same but will work OK to keep the stone from loading up too bad. It doesn't float the debris and removed steel like oil will. Repeated use of water on an Arkansas stone will cause it to glaze and this can be observed by holding the stone at a shallow angle to a bright light. Areas where its been worked hard will show as shinier than the areas where it hasn't seen as much use - these are areas where it won't grind as well or as cleanly, affecting speed and burr removal. Will still work but not as well as you might remember from when it was brand new. On a manufactured stone it isn't as big a concern but with an Arkansas you should coddle it somewhat. With an Arkansas, a light film is all that's needed, just keep it wet and wipe clean when done with an old rag.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I see.

Going back to #1, the main problem that I'm having with an inconsistent bevel angle is that it seems that a burr develops on the mid/upper section of the blade and not the lower, and that will inevitably hurt the sharpness of the blade down low :S Any ideas?

Thank you so much for all your help so far; Been practicing some of these things today!

I'm a bit discouraged, as it seems that no matter how hard I try to keep the bevel angle even (and it seems -really even- now thanks to above advice!), no matter how fine a grit stone I work up to (doing the finishing step on a 1000 grit atm), no matter what type of strokes I use, no matter which of the knives I try, there's this plateau that I simply cannot pass. At that point, my knife will slice paper at an angle about 50% of the time, but it's nowhere near the "shaving sharp" many people seem to be able to get a knife to at 1000 grit with good steel. It's totally my fault, but I have no idea what I'm doing wrong so that I can improve. The bevel looks even, the angles seem to be the same, I'm forming a burr and then leveling it on the opposite side...what could I be doing wrong?

Try experimenting with small circular grinding, maybe the size of a dime or penny - then adapt this to your current mechanics. Angle control is the #1 concern for the freehand sharpener when it comes to improving. Folks with guided systems boast some amazing edges from relatively coarse stones and this is the reason - better control of the margin of error when grinding a given angle. Be honest with yourself and really study the way your edges throw back light. Too much rolling and that's most of the problem, the rest is probably getting rid of the last bit of burr formation. You're asking all the right questions, will be breaking through your plateau very soon.

 

[Jtsessions]

Try experimenting with small circular grinding, maybe the size of a dime or penny - then adapt this to your current mechanics. Angle control is the #1 concern for the freehand sharpener when it comes to improving. Folks with guided systems boast some amazing edges from relatively coarse stones and this is the reason - better control of the margin of error when grinding a given angle. Be honest with yourself and really study the way your edges throw back light. Too much rolling and that's most of the problem, the rest is probably getting rid of the last bit of burr formation. You're asking all the right questions, will be breaking through your plateau very soon.

Thank you so much, and thank you for the suggestions regarding angle control I'll take a look and keep at it!

 

[HeavyHanded]

Thank you so much, and thank you for the suggestions regarding angle control I'll take a look and keep at it!

You are very welcome. The fact that you're seeing all the things that are going on means you're observing closely and that's 50% right there. I have no doubt about your near-term improvement. Gaining better control over your personal margin of error is difficult, what works for one person might not work for another. I am convinced that a big initial gain can be made by simply shortening the stroke - asking less of our all-too-imperfect bodies to move an object in our hands over a given area without letting its position vary too much. Experimenting with small circular grinding methods really opened my eyes. Shorten the area and you limit the number of variables needed to compensate for - you can probably hold a blade stationary on a stone within a degree or two of deviation at most. Now to achieve that while moving it around enough to remove metal...Detach yourself a bit, you're not "sharpening", you're shaping metal to suit your needs and this involves overcoming a few, relatively obvious obstacles. Many variations of how to solve the same basic problems.