Belt Grinder Modeled After The JL Grinder

I can't figure out for the life of me what there was to buy from Mr. LeBlanc. No company name, no web site, no patent, no trade mark, not even a letter head. When I asked him for a receipt for my grinders he said "I don't have'em." :D
 
milo-13 said:
I know Enrique personally, he is a great machinist, and all I can say about this grinder is WOW when I saw it at his shop. It is an exact replica of the JL grinder the only difference is the color, it roars like a beauty and tracts nice and smooth. You will definetly be getting your money's worth for this grinder. I will be very interested if he ever makes the JL horizontal grinder.
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I know Tom Krein, he is a great knifemaker and a honest guy who did the right thing and put his money up to obtain the rights to manufacture a grinder when he could have copied it. I'm sure if Enrique copied the grinder, he will copy the horizontal grinder. Right Enrique, uuum I mean Milo.
BB
 
Don so in your mind if the consumer puts the screws in it and mounts the wheels that all right. I can live with that.
 
milo-13 said:
It is an exact replica of the JL grinder the only difference is the color...
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i take back what i said about hoping both guys make them.
it's one thing to build a "version" of someone else's design, but to copy it exactly?
that doesn't seem very cool to me.
:thumbdn:
 
I have three grinder left and after they are gone I will no longer make them that is what I told Tom and he is OK with that, but instead I will make one of my own design. What do you guys want me to do with them I do not think I will just trash them. Does this seem fair to you guys and for whom ever thinks that Milo and myself are the same person you are wrong just look at when the account was created and for whomever said to ban me I have not violated any rules of the forum. What I have to say is that if someone comes up with a Damascus pattern and someone else copies it does not mean they owe the the person that came up with it any money or else a lot of people owe Bob Loveless a lot of money. Yes he bought the so called rights but that will not keep someone else from making them. I heard of someone wanting to get them made in China so just get the real rights to them and the the grinder will be legally protected from being copied. Guys what I learned from this is to watch out for what you buy and be informed of it. I did not joined BF to make any enemies and I did not know someone had bought so called rights to make them and how was I supposed to know. Dose it seem fair to you guy or not let me know.
 
Sounds fair to me. If the device wasn't patented in the first place there is no legal reason any of us couldn't make and sell them. As far as I can tell from all the above, you had no reason to think someone had purchased the "rights" to make the grinders. When notified of a potential conflict you apparently discussed the issue with the other party and came to an amiable solution. Sounds like everything was done properly and ethically to me.

I think people jump to conclusions much too quickly. Without all the facts laid out to view people have no way of coming to any sort of logical conclusion.

Just my $.02

Shawn
 
Not to step on toes, but I dont see what the big deal is. I would say your only mistake was saying it was, more or less, a JL grinder. You should just call it Enrique's bad a$$ grinder or something. I've seen tons of bader, wilton, hardcore, and similar copies for sale...maybe not identical, but darn close. The NWG is a bolt together version of the KMG. The new one here in the classifieds is a bolt together u-finish-it version of a bader(P.S.-I'm gonna get one, they are nice). I wish you guy's the best and hope for a peaceful resolution.

-Steve
 
I think that the only real msitake here is the one that tom made when he bought the rights and patterns for an unpatented product. there was nothing there to pay for but maybe some material. Tom I am sorry for you but you bought ocean front property in arizona. It is honorable that Henry has agreed to quit making his version of this grinder since with no copy rights or patents he has every legal right to make and sell his grinder. ethically he may be a little out of line but not as much as Leblanc for selling Tom nothing more than the the paper the agreement and his plans were written on.
 
Looking good Enrique!

I think that is the sexiest looking grinder I've seen yet. That green and those "stick shift levers" make me miss my tractor. If you have trouble selling the remaining ones (due to lofty consumer mores) you might want to consider donating one to our high school metalsmithing program. We're shameless AND tax deductible! One of those in our shop would be the cat's pajamas!!!! :D :D :D

All the best, Phil
 
ep3757 said:
Dose it seem fair to you guy or not let me know.
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Seems more than fair to me. I don't know you, but from you have written here I can't see where you have done anything wrong.

There are all kinds of grinder "copies" out there.... along with copies of copies. To single you out for this seems a bit over the top to me. You were honest about where your design came from and that is most likely what "bit you in the butt".

Change a small something on it [if you want to] and do like SCMknives said and call it "Enrique's bad a$$ grinder". IF people like it they will buy it... if they don't they won't...... simple as that.

As far as Tom K. goes, I don't know him either; but I feel sure he is a fine fellow also. From what has been written here so far though.... it does seem he bought a "pig in a poke". Nothing of legal value to sell or buy there... it would seem from what has been written to this point here.

I don't see where you have taken anything from Tom..... in fact it looks like you have already made the grinders and have them ready for sale now. Tom said he was just in the process of making them.

I don't know JL either...... but, it seems like he made out good????? :eek:
 
This is an interesting topic. Like many delimmas in life, there is the question of what is legal and what is considered ethical/morally responsible. Anyone familiar with copy right protection understands that it extends to written copy, musical and cinematic productions, etc. not durable goods such as a grinder. Many people are equally confused as to patent protection. There are many such grinders on the market, so getting something like this patented would be virtually impossible, unless there is something truly novel in the design. Another hurdle is that obtaining patents are often prohibitively expensive for something like this and enforcing them is even more expensive. As a whole, the knifemaking community seems to disapprove of one maker outright copying another maker's knife designs, so why doesn't this same courtesy extend to knifemaking tools such as grinders? The maker's knife design isn't protected by a patent, so legally speaking, copying it isn't illegal, but has the copier done anything wrong? At the end of the day, my rule of thumb is the sage "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you". In my mind, Enrique has done such here once he learned that Tom had purchased the rights to this design.
 
ep3757 said:
Dose it seem fair to you guy or not let me know.
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Seems more than fair to me to not make something that someone else bought "rights" (that don't exist) to make. Change it up a little and then make'em if you choose.

$10 to a doughnut Mr. LeBlanc was standing in the driveway, cowboy hat on, cigarette dangling out of his mouth, smiling, and waving as the "rights" drove off.
 
Much to be learned from reading this, not the least is how judgemental some folks are even when faced with little or no solid information. I would say that both parties involved here acted accordingly once the issue came to light.
 
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Guys, some interesting posts... I don't think I bought a pig in a poke. Sure I could have copied it, but that just didn't seem right to me. Maybe I got taken, I don't think so.

Enrique, and I talked. Enrique is a good guy! He is going to sell the ones he made and then concentrate on the other grinders he makes.

THANKS!

Tom
 
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