Benchmade and Spyderco

[geekswithguns]

I like many of the Benchmade knives and I own alot of them, but as nice as many of the knives are, Benchmade is not a customer friendly company, especially compared to Spyderco.

I must disagree- I have had positive experiences with both companies- I managed to snap the tip off a spyderco police model and they replaced it immediately. I recently had the lock on a Benchmade ambush fail on me (how- no idea...only problem I have EVER had with a BM) - and not only did they replace it- they replaced it with a different NIB knife because I asked them to- the Ambush has a slightly different lock than the other axis locks...I am an LEO and have trusted both companies for work (meaning I trust my and others lives with their tools).

-GWG

 

[thombrogan]

They both make great knives and they both have great customer service.

Spyderco respects intellectual property rights and is very responsive to their customers. They're always making newer and better knives and constantly improving their existing models. Spyderco makes my favorite folders (Native, ATR, Meerkat, Delica, Calypso Junior, Co-Pilot, Chinook II, Merlin, Stretch, Atlantic Salt, Manix, Dragonfly, Spyderfly, and Yojimbo).

Benchmade, well, their axis locks are excellent and some of their blades (710, 921, and 941 come to mind) are great cutters. They're not above using trademarks without permission or hiring a designer who does likewise and also violates the design patent of another knifemaker.

 

[STR]

Spyderco doesn't include full steel liners because, according to their exhaustive testing, the liners don't actually increase the strength of the knife.

See, this here I just cannot buy into at all. I'm sure some want to believe this but that is just not true in my mind or in my experiences. I've heard this before and am not trying to single out anyone by this. Actually, I'm glad it was brought up. Again, Spyderco is one of my favorite knives so I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm just commenting on my observations.

In my own 'retired' Spyderco and Cold Steel knives in FRN handles the main reason for retiring them was due to undue vertical blade play in the knife directly related to the pivot pin hole in the FRN body becoming oval or oblong in shape instead of staying in the original circular shape it was when new. Call it 'normal' wear if it makes you feel better but to me this is a tell all in durability for FRN. I've also seen this develop in other manufacturers knives besides the two I mention. I just use them as an example. It is a tell all because it has not been the case in the SS or titanium lined models I have carried and used.


This type of vertical movement is not the same as the little bit of play that some lockbacks have in them from the first time you open them where the lock bar moves too. I'm talking about movement where the blade is free while the lock bar is depressed.

What will really show this for sure is if I were to take one of my old retired knives and rebuild a new body for it like the new upgraded body I built for my Salt 1. I'm certain that with a new body and perfect circle pivot the problem of vertical blade play would be alleviated and that an old retired knife could once again ride in the pocket.

Just my $.02 on that claim sometimes made by FRN makers. Don't get me wrong. I think it is a fine product but it doesn't last like steel and certainly isn't as strong. I've taken apart countless FRN knives and some don't even survive the hammer tap to get the lock bar pin out. That is how fragile this material can be in my experience. Later if you like I'll show you one I just took apart today and the shattered body that snapped in two.

 

[Blop]

Whta has to be compared? A FRN handled folder to another? Than BM offers the old Ascent (Pika now?) or the Griptilians.

The knifes with higher standard features are mostly BMs and from Spyderco you actually find the Manix, the Paramillie. Other G10 knifes are without steel liners. Maybe the Liltemperance comes into play.

Any Axis knife is lefty friendly.

Just the Manix is lefty friendly.

The Ascent wasn´t but even the Pika is right for lefties.

If Spyderco is so great, why do the ignore lefties? They do for the .2$ of spared screw holes.

Fit and finish on BMs are better. For the money they take a bit more time to finish the knifes.

Spydercos look more like "no mans hand was on it" ( ).

My request for broken tips found Spydercos, no BMs (that doen´s mean BMs wont break the tips, but in real life it doesn´t seem to happen).

Maybe some of the lighter models are the better cutters. But looking on the actual high priced models without the cheap hollow ground, the edges ae as thick as BMs.

I sometimes see it as a prejudge about BMs edge thickness based on the ATS34 time.

My opinion is based on the models BM 550, 520, 140HS, 806 and Spyderco ATR, Paramillie.

For the companies i think both have their niche. Sal is more the front man, keeping contact with the knife knuts. But as i was searching for the AFCK i found ppl. like Bob Kaspar saying, that the Benchmade ppl. are loved in the industry, cause they are nice ppl.

BM is represented by a few more ppl. Angie is in front of warr. The forum is managed by ,uh forgotten the name, the #5000 was promoted buy Steve Ingram. Les is in the second line, from our view, he came last year to declare the oversea production. I like that company that is not focused on one person, because every sucsess they made is based on every mens and womens work.

I will always buy a BM but always keep an eye on Spyderco products.

 

[Lil Timmy]

Funny that the main argument for Spyderco is not that Spyderco makes better knives, but that they have "integrity". And the only examples given that Benchmade does not, is the use of an oval hole for the AFCK, and holes on the Skirmish/Mini Skirmish...

Do you guys also feel the same way about the oval holes used by Strider on the SMF and SnG? Or the Swamp Rat Rat Trap?

 

[Trout Tamer]

I would love to see a knife with benchmade handles and a spyderco blade...

My thoughts, exactly. I always hear about the awesome cutting ability of the Spyderco blades, but whenever I actually handle a Spydie, I always find that it just doesn't fit well in my hand. I have yet to handle a Chinook II or a Manix, though, so one of those models could actually work well for me, ergonomically. Basically, BM's feel better in my hand than do Spyderco's, so my EDC is a Benchmade.

 

[Grover_Cephas]

Is it true that After Spyderco's Patent time expired, it is now only considered a trade-mark, which has a little different meaning? Benchmade honored the patent, by paying royalties, but now the trade-mark of the hole is more the over-all look of the knife, instead of the fuction of opening. So, you're right, they got around that with the Skirmish by adding more holes.

What they "got around" was Ken onion's trademark of three (non-functional) round holes of decreasing size. Spyderco's trademarked round opening hole is still being violated. I couldn't start a business, call it "Michael's Knife Warehouse", use the McDonalds golden arches fior the initial letter, and argue that I wasn't violating the trademark 'cause I put some other crap around it.

The round opening hole is a registered trademark. End of story. Les DeAsis knew that, and ripped it off anyway. That's unethical. As I said, "that makes me uneasy dealing with them". I'm uneasy dealing with Gerber, Microtech, Dark Ops, and Chinese knockoff artists, too. Nobody ever said the world was ending.

(BTW, I've got no issues with Leatherman. In America, there's nothing wrong with endorsing your preferred presidential candidate. Buck knives endorses the kind of fundamentalist, creationist, homophobic theocrats that Bush hangs out with, and I don't count that against them. I disagree with their poilitics, but that's what America's all about. I'm not ganna call 'em unpatriotic or traitorous for stating an opinion about this country's direction that's different forom mine.)

I agree with you, BM is covertly ripping off the Hole. Sheisterz. I don't really care, though...It's great that the Waved Endura has Ernest's permission. The Waved Endura is one of my Favourite blades. I would buy 'em with or without the proper permissions.

And I'll continue to think that's a little messed up. In an environment with less and less respect for intellectual property, it's important to give credit to those who behave honorably, and take to task those who don't. Sure, we're sometimes mistaken (hey, maybe Benchmade's really doing the market a service by breaking up Spyderco's control of a useful innovation), but it beats apathy by a damn sight.

Since I don't know him or Sal, It's all the same: Big, rich companies are getting richer off me. I don't care what they do, so long as they are making Quality products. They don't care what I do, so long as I'm giving them MONEY.

I humbly submit that you're badly mistaken.
AFAIK, Spyderco and Benchmade are far from "big" or "rich" as knife companies go. Their presence in the market is skewed from our perspective. The way I understand it, (and please jump in to correct me, anybody who knows better!) Spyderco and BM are fairly small companies that don't exactly rake in the dough. Gerber, for example, is another story. I think your attitude here might be a little misplaced. You're cynical about big, rich companies? Good. Stop shopping at Wal-Mart and take more interest in the small, creator-owned businesses that serve your needs more directly, like, say, BM and Spyderco.

 

[Grover_Cephas]

In my own 'retired' Spyderco and Cold Steel knives in FRN handles the main reason for retiring them was due to undue vertical blade play in the knife directly related to the pivot pin hole in the FRN body becoming oval or oblong in shape instead of staying in the original circular shape it was when new.

I've only heard Spyderco make the "liners don't increase strength" claim with regards to G10-handled knives, not FRN. That doesn't mean they didn't say it (or that somebody else or I didn't misinterpret it), but the statements I've seen were justifying the lack of full steel liners on the Military (a G10-handled knife with one partial nested liner for the lock).

The Spyderco line I;'ve heard is that _unnested_ full steel liners on a _G10_ handle don't, in fact, increase the strength of the knife.

 

[Myamoto Musashi]

I humbly submit that you're badly mistaken.
AFAIK, Spyderco and Benchmade are far from "big" or "rich" as knife companies go. Their presence in the market is skewed from our perspective. The way I understand it, (and please jump in to correct me, anybody who knows better!) Spyderco and BM are fairly small companies that don't exactly rake in the dough. Gerber, for example, is another story. I think your attitude here might be a little misplaced. You're cynical about big, rich companies? Good. Stop shopping at Wal-Mart and take more interest in the small, creator-owned businesses that serve your needs more directly, like, say, BM and Spyderco.

You make a good point. I do not buy Gerber or any knives that aren't Spyderco or Benchmade. Maybe some-day I'll look into chris reeve or emerson.

I want to also say that I agree with the Spydie blade in a Benchmade handle. I just got a Para-Millie, and the blade out cuts anything I have. Too bad the handle is so uncomfortable compared to my bm's. The opening action is very "scratchy" also. I love both companies. Although, the perfect knife could very well be a Mixture of the two.

 

[DaveH]

My concern about BM is the following.

A few years ago they solicited for designs, then rejected them all and use elements of several designs. At least that was the story, I don't know if it was true, but then no one refuted it.

They used to delete threads that where unflatering to them on their forum. Maybe that was an early mistake.

You can argue about the law, but if not the law then it seems to me they violated the "spirit" of the law with the skirmish design.

 

[DGG]

I like Benchmade only because of their automatics. Both are very good and I'm hoping Spydies come auto but it probably defeats their hole philosophy to do so.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Before I joined here, I would've automatically said Spyderco. My Spydies have not failed on me, and lately I've been just abusing my Delica.

But Benchmade puts out prettier products. The Griptilian and some of BM's other beasts are just as utilitarian as the Delica and Endura (I'll admit, I like the Endura, the hole lends itself to the smoothness of the Endura), but some models are just pretty, like my Apparition. I wasn't too pleased with my Grip 550S, but I think that was just an Axis lock that needed to be tightened. I would go for both, nobody has to choose just one. If you're here, you can always buy both and sell the one you didn't like the most if you had to.

 

[Franciscomv]

I like both companies. I tend to favour Spyderco when I have to choose a new knife because:
-I like holes better than thumb studs. In fact, I think it would be safe to say that I hate thumb studs (with two or three exceptions).
-Although BM has some classier looking knives, the ergonomics of most of the Spyderco knives just work great for me.
-Spyderco listens to the customers. Knives like the UK Penknife are living proof of that. I'm not well informed about the patent/trademark issues between the two companies, so I don't take them into account when choosing one brand over the other, but Spyderco's respect for the customers opinion gives them a lots of points with me.

I think that if there were more Benchmades with holes, I would buy them. I have a Pika, a Griptillian and a RitterGrip. All three of them see a fair bit of action and are great EDC knives.

 

[guideseries]

Spyderco:
i have yet to find a company that uses steels that i enjoy more. With vg-10 and H1 and s30v, i can honestly say that they cover all my needs. I also find the hole to be a more comfortable operation for me (i know benchmade uses this as well at times, and i own a couple of theese said knives) and although i do love the axis lock, its not enough to sway my decision. Also i have been verry disappointed with benchmade red series and do not believe it is worth the name benchmade. that being said, i really have to look into a benchmade before i purchase one. the only benchmades on my list currently are an AFCK and D2 mini girp. where as i have dozens of spydercos that i would like to own. currently i own 2 benchmades and 16 spydercos. so i stand by my decision that spyderco is the company for me. everyone has the right to an opinion and not all share the same views. but for thoose who think i am doging benchmade, its not the case, its a matter of prefrence and comfort. most spydercos fit my hand better, and i dont think anyone can argue that spyderedge is by far the most superior serration on the market today. that being said, good day to all
GS

 

[runT1ME]

I'll suprise a lot of you by saying I don't like a lot of the spyderco designs at all. Almost all of the benchamde knives are very slick looking, nicely made knives. BUt i've never fallen in love with one. I never held one and had to own it, like a few spydercos. You want a reason for Spyderco being a better company? I'll give you two: Manix. Military.

 

[Lil Timmy]

You want a reason for Benchmade, I'll give you two, 710HS and 806.

 

[Grover_Cephas]

I just got a Para-Millie, and the blade out cuts anything I have. Too bad the handle is so uncomfortable compared to my bm's. The opening action is very "scratchy" also. I love both companies. Although, the perfect knife could very well be a Mixture of the two.

Interesting. The Paramille fits my hand _perfectly_. As does the Delica, Calypso JR, Police, and Meerkat. The full-sized Military took some getting used to, though. Contrariwise, the only Benchmade that's blown me away with its handle ergos is the Switchback. It's a perfect fit forwards and "backwards". The Grip and Mini-Grip are perfectly good, too. I'll be the first to admit that my dislike for Benchmade ergonomics has at least a little to do with the fact that I've handled more Spydercos, but Benchmades seem generally "pickier" about the hands they'll be friendly to.

And this talk of the Paramillie brings up a relevant Spyderco-vs.-BM detail: Brand-spankin'-new Spydie innovations sometimes take a little while to get all the kinks worked out. Case in point is the compression lock. In theory, it's a great mechanism (it only _looks_ like a liner lock). In practice, though, they've had a few issues with the execution. My Paramilitary was from the earliest production runs, and had some unacceptable blade wobble. It got worse with time. I don't carry it at all anymore. I'm certain Spyderco could fix it, but sending her in isn't such a high priority since I left the warehouse job (the big, chunky G10 handle isn't the most office-friendly knife I own )

So while Spydercos are generally of exceptional quality function-wise, it pays to be cautious with any major innovations right off the bat.

 

[marty123]

Spyderco wins.
I have a bunch of Spydercos, no Benchmades.
Benchmades are nice, but I keep buying Spyderco because they work out better for me.

 

[Danzz]

Benchmade! They make teh Balisongs!
Oh, wait. It seems Spyderco does as well...
TWO winners!

 

[thombrogan]

Funny that the main argument for Spyderco is not that Spyderco makes better knives, but that they have "integrity". And the only examples given that Benchmade does not, is the use of an oval hole for the AFCK, and holes on the Skirmish/Mini Skirmish...

Do you guys also feel the same way about the oval holes used by Strider on the SMF and SnG? Or the Swamp Rat Rat Trap?

The trademarked round opening hole, found on Spyderco knives and knives made with licensed permission from Spyderco, is circular. Any and every other type of hole is not covered by that trademark and, aside from Byrd's Comet hole, not intellectual property of Spyderco.

Ovals in Benchmades, Swamp Rats, and Striders? Brilliant! The oval on the 806D2 allows for a larger surface area without a hump on the back of the blade. The slotted ovals for Striders and the Strider/Buck/Tarani are as badass as they get. The oval on the Rat Trap is again a way to save space without compromising strength. The designs are different from the round opening hole and solve deployment problems in their own, distinctive way.

Blop,

Spyderco makes all sorts of lefty-friendly knives:
Delica
Endura
Native
Calypso and Calypso Jr.
Chinook II
Yojimbo
ATR
Meerkat
Merlin
Spyderhawk
Limited Edition left-handed carbon-fiber Police
Limited Edition left-handed carbon-fiber Civilian
Stretch
Manix
Spyderfly
Salsa
Salt (I, Pacific, and Atlantic)
Rescue (79mm, 93mm, D'Allara, WTC)

And those are just the ones right off the top of my head.

You are correct that Benchmade makes several ambidextrous knives, but that doesn't take away from the catalog of ambidextrous and left-handed Spyderco knives that were, are, and will be made.