Benchmade does not condone the Ganzo rip off of the Axis lock!

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craytab

craytab

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In this thread:http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1330549-Ganzo-G704-amp-Ganzo-G712?highlight=ganzo. For some reason Duane Sanders explicitly says Benchmade is fine with the Ganzo rip off of the Axis lock. He in fact says Benchmade has told him such. He also says Ganzo is not using the Axis lock even though on the Ganzo website they in fact call their ripped off Axis lock, you guessed it, an Axis lock. I don't know why duane is saying such things but it is important that the truth be told. I inquired to Benchmade on the subject and this was their response:

"Hello Eduard,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. However, we do not condone these infringements and apologize that you have been misinformed.
If you have any questions or concerns please let me know.


Best regards,

Miss Tye Williams
Customer Service Supervisor

E twilliams@benchmade.com
P 503.655.6004 x.116
F 503.496.1896

BENCHMADE KNIFE CO, INC
300 BEAVERCREEK RD
OREGON CITY, OR 97045
WWW.BENCHMADE.COM"

My original question to Benchmade:

"Comment: Hi,

I am a longtime Benchmade customer. I own lots of your knives (860, 915, 810, 710 in ATS-34, 710 in M4, AFCK in ATS-34, two of your rescue hooks). I love every single one of them. At some point I will be taking advantage of your custom grip program.

There was recently a discussion on Bladeforums where one gentlemen adamantly posted that he emailed you and you had told him there was enough difference in the manufacture of the GANZO copies of the axis lock that you did not have a problem with them copying your patented design. Is this correct?

Please let me know your stance on these specific companies useing the Axis lock: Ganzo, SanRenMu, Enlan/Bee.

Thank you for your time and consideration, Ed"

I am more than willing to forward the exact email to anyone interested. Just let me know.
 
Thanks for taking the time to do that, craytab. I don't know how to put this exactly, but the only people who care are probably those who cared before you posted it. Those who didn't care probably still don't.

Have a nice day. :)
 
bld522 said:
Thanks for taking the time to do that, craytab. I don't know how to put this exactly, but the only people who care are probably those who cared before you posted it. Those who didn't care probably still don't.

Have a nice day. :)
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I completely agree. I certainly did not appreciate being called out and lied to multiple times over on a subject that, as you know, I am passionate about. Whether people care or not is up to them but in the least the correct information is out there.
 
bld522 said:
Yeah. Unfortunately it takes more than winning a battle to win a war.
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I think we both know this war is ultimately not winnable. Counterfeits will not be totally eliminated. I know that. It doesn't mean we have to put up with counterfeits here and we certainly should not put up with such wildly inaccurate information about them being spread. Benchmade is fine with the rip of the Axis lock......right.:rolleyes:
 
craytab said:
I think we both know this war is ultimately not winnable.
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Agreed. If it were me, I'd concentrate on trying to alert people to real counterfeits . . . you know, those that try to pass as originals. At least that way folks wouldn't inadvertently be buying them without knowing they were fakes. But I don't think any amount of information or moralizing will persuade those who want to buy them from doing so. And I suspect that's where the vast majority of the problem lies.
 
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I just read his post, and unless I misunderstood it, it seems he said that Benchmade stated that they were fine with Shirogorov knives with the "Axis Lock" because it slightly differed in design. He also said Benchmade started that they would go after any company that infringed on their patent. Because Benchmade had not gone after Ganzo, he assumed that the Ganzo "Axis Lock" differed enough from Benchmade's patent. Unless I missed something, I'm not sure where you're getting that he said Benchmade said that they were ok with the Ganzo lock.
 
And it's still a so what. Whether a knife has a lock that's been ripped off is going to stop people from buying it . . . especially if it's decently made and costs a fraction of the original? I don't think so.

To me it's a matter of picking my battles. And I choose to battle the REALLY bad guys that not only make fake knives but try to pass them off as originals. If we could just put a dent in those guys, I'd consider it something of a miracle. So if somebody wants to rip off a lock, that's a better alternative AFAIC than ripping off the whole damn knife right down to the logo and the packaging.

Let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees.
 
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JungleJim65 said:
I just read his post, and unless I misunderstood it, it seems he said that Benchmade stated that they were fine with Shirogorov knives with the "Axis Lock" because it slightly differed in design. He also said Benchmade started that they would go after any company that infringed on their patent. Because Benchmade had not gone after Ganzo, he assumed that the Ganzo "Axis Lock" differed enough from Benchmade's patent. Unless I missed something, I'm not sure where you're getting that he said Benchmade said that they were ok with the Ganzo lock.
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It is all there. He changed his story a lot after some pressing but he sticks to the fact that he thinks BM told him the Ganzo axis lock is okay. Here is another thread and post where he says BM told him they were fine with Ganzo copying the lock:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Buck-110-in-Bos-5160?p=15332349#post15332349

The point of this thread is to clear up the inaccurate information he is spreading.
 
Thanks for clearing this up. Something sounded "off" about the claim that Benchmade was ok with the Ganzo copy because it was different enough to not infringe. I've taken both apart and I see no difference.

As bld522 said, it probably won't amount to much, but at least we as knife enthusiasts can strive for accuracy in the info we share. If we can't discern truth from bs we don't stand a chance against the counterfeiters.
 
2016 The patent completely ends with no more extentions. 2015 is the last year that Americans can't stea... (BM obviously doesn't want to ever give it up) ...err copy err use the Axis lock.

Couple more months and we're gonna have to find a new main focus to constantly drill our heads with when it comes to China. Many options to choose from :) Gonna be glad when this one gets buried with others.
 
bld522 said:
Thanks for taking the time to do that, craytab. I don't know how to put this exactly, but the only people who care are probably those who cared before you posted it. Those who didn't care probably still don't.

Have a nice day. :)
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Indeed. Thanks for putting some "first hand" info out there. Nice work. :thumbup:
 
Hackenslash said:
Thanks for clearing this up. Something sounded "off" about the claim that Benchmade was ok with the Ganzo copy because it was different enough to not infringe. I've taken both apart and I see no difference.

As bld522 said, it probably won't amount to much, but at least we as knife enthusiasts can strive for accuracy in the info we share. If we can't discern truth from bs we don't stand a chance against the counterfeiters.
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Your welcome. He was way off in more ways than one. He also claimed Ganzo calls their axis lock the axle lock. That was easily disproven with about 5 seconds of typing into google. Oddly enough he is completely silent on this now even though he went back and forth with me for 20 posts in the earlier thread. But hey, I fine with that. It is better than to have to put up with more misinformation from him.


Stays Sharp said:
2016 The patent completely ends with no more extentions. 2015 is the last year that Americans can't stea... (BM obviously doesn't want to ever give it up) ...err copy err use the Axis lock..
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And where are you getting that info from? From what I can tell McHenry & Williams have a patent that was issued in 2010 meaning it would expire in 2024 assuming they don't reapply with small changes.

Check this post:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-the-AXIS-lock-expire?p=12581057#post12581057
 
craytab said:
It is all there. He changed his story a lot after some pressing but he sticks to the fact that he thinks BM told him the Ganzo axis lock is okay. Here is another thread and post where he says BM told him they were fine with Ganzo copying the lock:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Buck-110-in-Bos-5160?p=15332349#post15332349

The point of this thread is to clear up the inaccurate information he is spreading.
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Excellent job! I do detest people who try to sound authoritative and spread wrong information.
 
Hackenslash said:
As bld522 said, it probably won't amount to much, but at least we as knife enthusiasts can strive for accuracy in the info we share. If we can't discern truth from bs we don't stand a chance against the counterfeiters.
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Do you seriously believe that if we discern truth from bs we will stand a chance against the REAL counterfeiters? Hmmmm.

To my way of thinking, the best we can do as a community is put out a clear, concise, consistent message that there are SAFE places to buy knives and UNSAFE places to buy knives. Until then, all we're doing is dancing on the head of a pin.

Minuet, anyone? :)
 
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bld522 said:
Do you seriously believe that if we discern truth from bs we will stand a chance against the REAL counterfeiters? Hmmmm.

To my way of thinking, the best we can do as a community is put out a clear, concise, consistent message that there are SAFE places to buy knives and UNSAFE places to buy knives. Until then, all we're doing is dancing on the head of a pin.
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We should also be correcting blatant misinformation. I wonder how many people read that previous thread and walked away thinking BM was completely okay with Ganzo copying their Axis lock.
 
People who buy counterfeits don't care about blatant misinformation. They're being duped, don't you get it? I mean, If you could look at knife that contains an Axis lock and discern just by looking at it whether the lock is genuine or fake, then maybe you'd be on to something. Otherwise, your information may be accurate, but it's useless to someone who got duped.

There are SAFE places to buy knives and UNSAFE places to buy knives. Buy knives from SAFE places and the question of whether their Axis locks are genuine is moot.
 
While I agree some what, craytabs info is being seen by many people perhaps BEFORE being duped... sure the ones already duped already bought a counterfeit but even if one of the people who got duped and reads the truth they can refuse to support counterfeits in the future.

Some people just don't care and no amount of truth will make them care. Does that mean people should stop spreading the truth because some people don't care? Hell No, keep preaching cray...
bld522 said:
People who buy counterfeits don't care about blatant misinformation. They're being duped, don't you get it? I mean, If you can at look at knife that contains an Axis lock and discern just by looking at it whether the lock is genuine or fake, then maybe you'd be on to something. Otherwise, your information may be accurate, but it's useless to someone who got duped.

There are SAFE places to buy knives and UNSAFE places to buy knives. Buy knives from SAFE places and the question of whether their Axis locks are genuine is moot.
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