Benchmade QC issues?

[Cypress]

I went to my local Sportsman's Warehouse for some gun stuff and stopped by the knife counter. The only two knives I held were the Pagan and the Infidel. Both had obviously-offset grinds that I tried to take pictures of.

$365 Pagan:


$408 Infidel:

 

[henkh]

I am a BM fan for sure; own several of them. But 2017 i was so disappointed when they introduced the Anthem during IWA show with a samle that had so many issues and was so expensive. It was off centered, it had bladeplay and some other issues. When i asked about it, i was told it was all within acceptable tolerances. It took me almost a year to find a sample that had no issues at all.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Just as a global, very hypothetical and totally academic point to the discussion. It would seem like from a sales standpoint, benchmade is doing alright. I'm seeing butterflies show up in stores that have traditionally only carried a couple knife brands, likely Vic and possibly Buck or Leatherman. They are expanding the lines, and providing more services. And for a long time they had a price range that was generally fairly narrow Someone who's followed them for longer will know for sure, but did they always have a 100USD-800USD range? Now they have a much wider price range, but it would seem that all the knives come off largely the same line. As a company grows they make choices.

Right now there is a thread in the spyderco forum and sub that have been going on for some months regarding disassembly and user adjustment. To grow his business Sal has relied on other factories, and every once and a while a batch comes in that isn't up to standard, and that has a cost to someone. But that has also distributed his risk in some ways.

As benchmade has done the same they don't seem to followed that method, and have chosen to stay under one roof as it were. So that means that the guy doing 80$ rescue hooks today might tomorrow be doing 87s or damasteel propers. So do they need to up their QC game, yes, as every company needs to do as they grow. Is it tempting to loosen some tolerances to let product out the door, you bet it is. Tighten it too much and you have more reject product than saleable, and not too many companies can work on that method. The other side of that coin being that QC suited to a rescue 10 is not suited to the upper end of the range, and it would seem that this is currently the case.

That being said, if their current production method doesn't allow for a tighter tolerance on something like blade centering, that could be a problem that is very hard to solve. I can also see from Jimmy's point of view if that is something that he has spent the last year or more trying to fix, that eventually it would feel like you just get a "yeah man" kinda response. And as for the warranty dept, I don't know. There are numerous reasons why a person could start to just not see things to the same standard.

Is it the communities job to tell the company what they need to do? Kinda yes. If the fans are happy, everyone else stands a chance at getting on board, if those who are loyal are saying that they see rats swimming, someone better take notice. Now that's not to suggest anyone here is being a fanatic, that is a different story, some are blind no matter what, and that cannot be helped, only identified and avoided. But if the knife community doesn't hold companies to account then they will end up as more marketing than production, and we end up with more companies ending up like SOG in the early 2000s, and no one wants that.

for what its worth I've got no problems with my griptillian, fixed grip and bugout, though I'm sure someone could find fault with them if they got out the calipers. They are solid, and within my tolerance level. And at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. And likely why knives returned to dealer probably go right back out the door hoping the next guy won't care.

 

[henkh]

Nice posting G gadgetgeek and some more stuff to think about it. One addition: During Bladeshow West i had several guys (actually the entire team) from Benchmade at our booth and i asked some what jobgs they had. One of them told me he had a job at the division responsible for the limited/special editions. So it might be the case that the guy who does a job on a $80 knife will never do a job to a $500,- knife. Don't know for sure, my interpretation of what he told me.

 

[skyhorse]

Some years back the day after Thanksgiving Benchmade raised their prices overnight by about 30% or more. That along with inconsistent quality control and the "within specs" attitude towards customers cost them many knowledgeable customers in the knife community.
They've inched their brand into mid- tech territory by price alone, rather than quality, materials, workmanship, or innovation.

 

[Lee48]

Who needs HUNDREDS of knives if the sole purpose is to use them?

Since when does need come into play with people on these forums?

Just so you guys know, I've used all the knives I own if for nothing more than carrying daily for a while and opening mail with them. Which, at this stage in my life, is about all I need a knife for anyway. I still have all these knives because I'm also obsessive and can't let go of them. I've been carrying knives and using them for over 60 years so I've accumulated a lot of them. Knives have always been tools for me, from the Sebenza I couldn't really afford (that wears its scars proudly) to the cheapest Asian knockoff bought out of curiosity. The main purpose of a knife--again, for me--has always been to cut stuff. If it accomplishes that, it's okay by me. Besides they're also fun to play with, even when they might bite you.

 

[BMCGear]

Some years back the day after Thanksgiving Benchmade raised their prices overnight by about 30% or more. That along with inconsistent quality control and the "within specs" attitude towards customers cost them many knowledgeable customers in the knife community.
They've inched their brand into mid- tech territory by price alone, rather than quality, materials, workmanship, or innovation.

I feel that there are a few of us being labeled as Benchmade haters but my bank account can assure you I'm not...

I joined the forum and bought my first Benchmade around the time of the MAP increase. Members here were losing their minds over it. Selling their Benchmades because they felt the company was unjust in how they were doing business. Many members on the forum made comments that the prices were going up but the quality wasn't and if anything it was going down. I've gotten a lot of Benchmade's in over the years now and some of them come out of the box as they should. Centering isn't a huge deal to me as I can fix it but it would be nice if they came centered. My biggest peeve is the edge - I don't want to fix an obtuse edge right off the bat.

I'm not Kershaw fan boy and I really dislike that they've become the import/8cr King. But every Kershaw I've purchased over the years (mostly US made) has been perfect. From a $13 chinese Rexford I gifted to a buddy to a $60 Blur - centering, edge, grind, everything perfect. Benchmade can and should do better. I wish them no ill will I just want them to match the materials and fit & finish with their pricing.

 

[skyhorse]

I feel that there are a few of us being labeled as Benchmade haters but my bank account can assure you I'm not...

I joined the forum and bought my first Benchmade around the time of the MAP increase. Members here were losing their minds over it. Selling their Benchmades because they felt the company was unjust in how they were doing business. Many members on the forum made comments that the prices were going up but the quality wasn't and if anything it was going down. I've gotten a lot of Benchmade's in over the years now and some of them come out of the box as they should. Centering isn't a huge deal to me as I can fix it but it would be nice if they came centered. My biggest peeve is the edge - I don't want to fix an obtuse edge right off the bat.

I'm not Kershaw fan boy and I really dislike that they've become the import/8cr King. But every Kershaw I've purchased over the years (mostly US made) has been perfect. From a $13 chinese Rexford I gifted to a buddy to a $60 Blur - centering, edge, grind, everything perfect. Benchmade can and should do better. I wish them no ill will I just want them to match the materials and fit & finish with their pricing.

I also hold no ill will towards Benchmade,just very dissappointed. Enough so that after the huge price increase I could no longer justify the value in a purchase. I still have all the Benchmade knives I'd bought before and have no plans of selling them. Talking about really well built budget edc's , check out the Kershaw Atmos.I'm truly impressed for a $30 knife.

 

[ponykid]

Only thing I would question is whether a company on the scale of Benchmade even cares about a knife forum like this. I have a feeling that they don't care as much as you might think. I think their customer base consists more of people who will never visit or read anything from bladeforums. Ive seen the same thing on other forums where the members thought they had huge clout with companies and then those companies pulled their presence from the site completely without hesitation.

Just as a global, very hypothetical and totally academic point to the discussion. It would seem like from a sales standpoint, benchmade is doing alright. I'm seeing butterflies show up in stores that have traditionally only carried a couple knife brands, likely Vic and possibly Buck or Leatherman. They are expanding the lines, and providing more services. And for a long time they had a price range that was generally fairly narrow Someone who's followed them for longer will know for sure, but did they always have a 100USD-800USD range? Now they have a much wider price range, but it would seem that all the knives come off largely the same line. As a company grows they make choices.

Right now there is a thread in the spyderco forum and sub that have been going on for some months regarding disassembly and user adjustment. To grow his business Sal has relied on other factories, and every once and a while a batch comes in that isn't up to standard, and that has a cost to someone. But that has also distributed his risk in some ways.

As benchmade has done the same they don't seem to followed that method, and have chosen to stay under one roof as it were. So that means that the guy doing 80$ rescue hooks today might tomorrow be doing 87s or damasteel propers. So do they need to up their QC game, yes, as every company needs to do as they grow. Is it tempting to loosen some tolerances to let product out the door, you bet it is. Tighten it too much and you have more reject product than saleable, and not too many companies can work on that method. The other side of that coin being that QC suited to a rescue 10 is not suited to the upper end of the range, and it would seem that this is currently the case.

That being said, if their current production method doesn't allow for a tighter tolerance on something like blade centering, that could be a problem that is very hard to solve. I can also see from Jimmy's point of view if that is something that he has spent the last year or more trying to fix, that eventually it would feel like you just get a "yeah man" kinda response. And as for the warranty dept, I don't know. There are numerous reasons why a person could start to just not see things to the same standard.

Is it the communities job to tell the company what they need to do? Kinda yes. If the fans are happy, everyone else stands a chance at getting on board, if those who are loyal are saying that they see rats swimming, someone better take notice. Now that's not to suggest anyone here is being a fanatic, that is a different story, some are blind no matter what, and that cannot be helped, only identified and avoided. But if the knife community doesn't hold companies to account then they will end up as more marketing than production, and we end up with more companies ending up like SOG in the early 2000s, and no one wants that.

for what its worth I've got no problems with my griptillian, fixed grip and bugout, though I'm sure someone could find fault with them if they got out the calipers. They are solid, and within my tolerance level. And at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. And likely why knives returned to dealer probably go right back out the door hoping the next guy won't care.

 

[brownshoe]

Only thing I would question is whether a company on the scale of Benchmade even cares about a knife forum like this....

Benchmade has their own forum and I believe it predates this one. It's the first knife forum I can remember but all that sex, drugs, rock, roll and alcohol does take its toll

 

[marrenmiller]

Only thing I would question is whether a company on the scale of Benchmade even cares about a knife forum like this. I have a feeling that they don't care as much as you might think. I think their customer base consists more of people who will never visit or read anything from bladeforums. Ive seen the same thing on other forums where the members thought they had huge clout with companies and then those companies pulled their presence from the site completely without hesitation.

They may not, though I bet their more expensive models are typically purchased by enthusiasts like us. I bet their Grip sales to people at sporting goods stores vastly outweigh anything we buy from them, but if they want to sell on the high end then I would imagine they would do well to listen to the customers who buy them.

 

[T Abell]

I only have one benchmade, a 940-2. It came with a blemish in the g10 near the axis lock.
It can be seen here.

It was a gift from my wife so I'm ok with it.

Like the little Gerber knife - I've got one just like it. I used to have the pocket clip for it but it snagged on something and got snapped off. I think it was the first pocket clip knife I ever had.

On to the main question - WTF is up with that trigger on that LCP? Aftermarket setup?

 

[gadgetgeek]

Only thing I would question is whether a company on the scale of Benchmade even cares about a knife forum like this. I have a feeling that they don't care as much as you might think. I think their customer base consists more of people who will never visit or read anything from bladeforums. Ive seen the same thing on other forums where the members thought they had huge clout with companies and then those companies pulled their presence from the site completely without hesitation.

You could very well be right. KAI pulled their presence from this forum when it became toxic, and other companies have decided that they would rather host their own forums, or not have much social presence at all. That falls under that companies social media policy and practice, and to be certain, some still don't see it as necessary. However, in the last couple years benchmade has made it a point to be more involved in this forum, and to have a more personal voice here, that does say something I think. You have to keep in mind that the lead time on most decisions and policies for a company the size of benchmade might be a year or more long, so its hard to see how our influence reaches them, but I think the fact that there has always been a counter to the big chunky slab folder movement to be found here made stuff like the bugout and proper more possible, they knew that there would be fans of those designs. You are right, its easy to overstate our collective influence, but it is a voice none the less.

 

[PWatkins]

Like the little Gerber knife - I've got one just like it. I used to have the pocket clip for it but it snagged on something and got snapped off. I think it was the first pocket clip knife I ever had.

On to the main question - WTF is up with that trigger on that LCP? Aftermarket setup?

That's a ruger lcp custom. You can buy them off the shelf like that. There's a aftermarket trigger similar to it called a sweet pea for lcp's. Apex may make one also

 

[Night Rider]

I just purchased a Grizzly Creek Hunter because I wanted to have an Axis lock in my collection and I have to say that it's is a perfect piece of workmanship, centering, and fit and finish. I also have a Mini Grip I got from a trade and that's rock solid also.
Nick Shabazz had mentioned that they have had some QC issues in the past with Blade centering and that if possible you should buy one from a brick and mortar store so you can inspect it in person. I personally inspected 8 knives at the counter and all were flawless and very sharp, not mirror edge sharp but sharp. If you cant get one from a store I would take a chance online due to their awesome customer service not that you would need it. They will also sharpen your blade for and lube it for Free. You just pay shipping one way.

 

[tomsch]

I don't have too many remaining BMs these days but I have been VERY impressed with the Anthem that I have. I did buy it here from a forum member and it was really perfect and at a great price. The three Ritters that I own also have been very good also. The last one I own is an older 710 in D2 steel which also has no obvious flaws. Perhaps I've been lucky so far but if there is new BM that I'm interested in then I'll try to pick one out in person.

 

[snapshot2017]

When i was working at a local sporting goods store in the knife Dept. Benchmade was one of the biggest selling knives, we could not keep the Infidel's in stock and we could only get a few at a time from our distributor.

But for the OTF knives we sold the ones that really stood out for their quality and their demand, were the Microtech knives.

We also sold a lot of Kershaws Zero Tolerance Spyderco Case CRKT Chris Reeves Medford also many others.

 

[Blacplastik]

When i was working at a local sporting goods store in the knife Dept. Benchmade was one of the biggest selling knives, we could not keep the Infidel's in stock and we could only get a few at a time from our distributor.

But for the OTF knives we sold the ones that really stood out for their quality and their demand, were the Microtech knives.

We also sold a lot of Kershaws Zero Tolerance Spyderco Case CRKT Chris Reeves Medford also many others.

What sporting good store sales Chris Reeves, and Medford?

 

[snapshot2017]

Sports World.

 

[Gravy]

I took a chance and ordered at Mini Crooked River off of Benchmade’s customizer. I’m happy to report no QC issues. Almost drop shut smooth out of the box, centering is good.... the edge does lean a little to the left, but that will get sharpened out soon.

It doesn’t really excuse the issues they’re having (and there’s no way in hell I would pay full pric for this thing...) but BM has redeemed themselves for me. They make damn good knives when they make em right.