Benchmade using spyderhole?

yablanowitz said:
Not odd at all, just a sign of the moral decay that is eating our country from the inside. The Benchmade fans KNOW the Spyderhole is the best opening system around, and they want their favorite company to use it. The fact that it is someone else's trademark is irrelevant to them. The fact that it is outright theft means nothing to them.
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Hmmmm. If the Spyderhole is the best opening system around, it cannot be trademarked since it would put Spyderco's competitors at a disadvantage.
 
registrationsucks said:
Hmmmm. If the Spyderhole is the best opening system around, it cannot be trademarked since it would put Spyderco's competitors at a disadvantage.
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One of the reasons that Spyderco was able to obtain a tradmark on the round-hole-thumb-opener-hole is that other companies claimed that there was no advantage to using the round hole. I personally prefer the hole, but I also just read a thread where someone claimed he just didn't like the hole. "Opinions vary".

Saying the round opening thumbhole is, "just a hole" is like saying that the bug or butterfly is just a bug (Spyderco) or butterfly (Benchmade), unless of course the bug and butterfly were around before the round hole:rolleyes: :D .
 
registration - But I read it first and it did make a point.

I hope this situation is rectified shortly, with some solid facts all around.

Don't have any desire to see two good (great?) knife companies doin' the court mamba. Waste of time, money, and talent.
 
ghostrider said:
Saying the round opening thumbhole is, "just a hole" is like saying that the bug or butterfly is just a bug (Spyderco) or butterfly (Benchmade), unless of course the bug and butterfly were around before the round hole:rolleyes: :D .
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The problem is that hole just isn't a hole. How does the hole differ from a Spyderco bug or Benchmade butterfly?

ghostrider said:
One of the reasons that Spyderco was able to obtain a tradmark on the round-hole-thumb-opener-hole is that other companies claimed that there was no advantage to using the round hole. I personally prefer the hole, but I also just read a thread where someone claimed he just didn't like the hole. "Opinions vary".
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I would be highly interested in reading any documentation that you can present/link that supports this claim. I wasn't aware that the trademark registration process looked into what other competitors thought of the trademark application.
 
registrationsucks said:
The problem is that hole just isn't a hole. How does the hole differ from a Spyderco bug or Benchmade butterfly?



I would be highly interested in reading any documentation that you can present/link that supports this claim. I wasn't aware that the trademark registration process looked into what other competitors thought of the trademark application.
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I should have qualified that by saying "IIRC". My fault on that one. There was a post where Sal Glesser explained some about what they had to go through to get the trademark approved. I'm not sure if that's where I read it or not. It could well have been something I just read on the forums. I do believe that they actually have to demonstrate that there is some sort of brand recognition, but can't say for sure all the details. Again, I should have qualified it with "IIRC". Sorry. If I manage to come across it again, then I'll try to remember to get it to you. (I found the post I was thinking of, and while it is quite informative, it makes no mention of other companies making such a claim). It does explain briefly the process that Spyderco had to go through to get the trademark.

However, that doesn't change the fact that BM should still at least credit Spyderco with the Spyderhole. That would be "doing the right thing". It's just like using some else’s research in writing a paper, book, or article. I think it's safe to say that most people involved in the cutlery industry understand that using a round hole thumb opener was an idea that Sal Glesser pioneered, just like the mid lock is associated with Al Mar, and the frame lock is associated with Chris Reeve, and the liner lock is associated with Michael Walker. What’s so hard about "giving credit where credit is due"?

As for the trademark ability of the Spyderhole, well, there is probably a lot of legal requirements for such things that are currently beyond my understanding. Personally, I see it as something that is exclusive to Spyderco and their licensee’s. I believe that the round, thumb opening hole is associated with Spyderco, and I can’t believe anyone would think differently unless they were either out of touch with the cutlery industry, or just plain dishonest. I say this because; Spyderco had a patent on it, and then the trademark. For the most part, it has been an exclusive, Spyderco item. Didn’t Benchmade even credit Spyderco with the Spyderhole when they produced the AFCK? At the very least they did get a license from Spyderco, so they have to know that it is Sal Glesser’s IP.

I can understand that Benchmade may be doing this just so they can attack the Trademark (even though I don’t agree with it), but why can’t they just come up with something better. Maybe if they’d spend more time working on their own innovation instead of working on using someone else’s, they would actually come up with something better. Maybe they could have come up with a comet (some people have actually said that they prefer that to the Spyderhole. Is Benchmade going to rip of the comet next?
 
I think what's most interesting about the Vex is that the knife, as a package, to me, looks like a Spyderco. I could EASILY have seen this on Spyderco's webpage (minus the butterfly) and not have thought twice. That said, I reallllllly like this knife. I'll buy one.

I concur on the creditng Spyderco, however...if we can credit CRK for the framelock, walker for the liner lock, etc, then I don't see why we can't give this one to Spyderco.

I won't feel that this hole is problematic unless it frequents Benchmade's upcoming lineup. In which case, I'll perceive it as a clear attempt to confuse buyers....I rather doubt that will happen.

As it stands, it's not about ripping off a trademark, it's just that the round hole works better than the oval one. Looks better too.

But, while the Benchmade masses cry out the absurdity of trademarking a hole...it's been used so consistently through Spyderco's lineup, even on the balis, that I think it's a legitimate claim. As it stands, if shown a brand new Spyderco, we'd know the brand by the hole 20 feet away without ever seeing the details. It's a powerful symbol, strangely enough.

That said, I only really perceive that trademark infringement is worth consideration is when it would appear to me that the company was trying to pretend to be another. Benchmade doesn't need to pretend it's Spyderco. It's Benchmade. Ferrari won't try to rebadge itself as a Lamborghini. There's no reason to hide your Benchmade identity...it's at least as powerful as the Spyder...

Case in point:
The Vex looks like a Spyderco in many ways
Spyderco should be at least credited for the Spyderhole in the Vex advertising.
The trademark will not be, for any worthwhile consideration, infringed upon unless it's adopted by many Benchmades and not just the one (and the mini skirmish doesn't count, good for another convo)
Round holes work better than oval ones do
The claim of a hole as a trademark seems fair to me in this case
Benchmade has no good reason to pretend to be Spyderco.
 
When the Benchmade AFCK came out, the hole was always referred to as licensed from Spyderco. It's hard to find old marketing material, but you can go back and look on old Usenet posts like this one and see references to it being licensed.
 
ratbert42 said:
When the Benchmade AFCK came out, the hole was always referred to as licensed from Spyderco. It's hard to find old marketing material, but you can go back and look on old Usenet posts like this one and see references to it being licensed.
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I think that was quite a long time ago, when Spyderco's patent of the round hole was still valid.
 
When I woke up yesterday morning I owned 317 Spydercos and 1 Benchmade. Thanks to the USPS, my Spyderco count now stands at 318 and thanks to our Saturday garbage pick-up there's a BM-42 in the local landfill by now. I feel cleaner. :D
 
The Deacon said:
When I woke up yesterday morning I owned 317 Spydercos and 1 Benchmade. Thanks to the USPS, my Spyderco count now stands at 318 and thanks to our Saturday garbage pick-up there's a BM-42 in the local landfill by now. I feel cleaner. :D
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So you took you revenge on an inanimate object and threw away a perectly good knife? Haven't you tortured the poor balisong before you get rid of it? You know, slapping it around with a baseball bat or the breaking the tip off very slowly or something... :confused:

If you boycott Benchmade in the future, I understand, but that is pure fanaticism. Hey, it was your knife anyway.
 
Deacon, next time you feel like scrapping a perfectly good knife give it away as like your 1372nd post for some newbie...

SAL GLESSER WHERE ARE YOUUUUU????
 
Redguy said:
So you took you revenge on an inanimate object and threw away a perectly good knife? Haven't you tortured the poor balisong before you get rid of it? You know, slapping it around with a baseball bat or the breaking the tip off very slowly or something... :confused:

If you boycott Benchmade in the future, I understand, but that is pure fanaticism.
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No I did not "take revenge on an inaimate object", I merely rid myself of a piece of personal property I no longer wished to own by the most expeditious means possible.

Redguy said:
Hey, it was your knife anyway.
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Exactly! Glad you understand.

Steven Andrews said:
Drama queen. :rolleyes:
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Nah, having someone videotape me as I walked to the middle of the Dunn Memorial Bridge and cast it into the Hudson, then using it as the splash page on my website would have been dramatic. :D This was no more dramatic than flushing a toilet.

Phil000 said:
Deacon, next time you feel like scrapping a perfectly good knife give it away as like your 1372nd post for some newbie...
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Except that in this case that would have sent the message that I considered a Benchmade knives acceptable to give as gifts. That's not the message I want to send, TYVM.
 
Then send it to someone with a little note about how much you hate Benchmade, but because they begged for the knife, you're willing to give it to them anyway.

Seriously, my little cousin recently joined the army and I've been putting money together for a knife to replace the Native III I bought for him to take back for this Christmas. I mean, he'll get a nice knife regardless, but the point is, there could be plenty of people like him that could have used it.

Dramatic is the word. Normally you don't make posts about flushing the toilent. Flawed analogy.

Destroying one of the classics. :thumbdn:

On the plus side, I'll buy an extra Vex to compensate for the loss of the 42 in the universe (and I mean it).
 
It is a free country. If your morals and ethics compel you to support theft of intellectual property and trademark infringement by purchasing an extra Chinese import knife, that is your business. Buy one to make up for me while you are at it.
 
Acknowledge patents
4d_1.JPG
 
The hole patent expired. So is life and get over it.

Now it is a trademark issue.

As brought up elsewhere, there may be a legal basis for interpreting the trademark as improper (as the hole provides utility).

If that were found to be the case, somehow I don't think the knife making world would be greatfull for the opening up of the feature to other knives (but I bet they would add the feature to their lines post-haste).
 
yablanowitz said:
It is a free country. If your morals and ethics compel you to support theft of intellectual property and trademark infringement by purchasing an extra Chinese import knife, that is your business. Buy one to make up for me while you are at it.
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I believe they're made in Taiwan. I'll confirm that for you when mine arrive.
 
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