Best Folder for SD <=6 oz

stabman said:
The REALITY is that people have successfully used knives to defend their lives for thousands of years.
They also have the advantage of being very capable as TOOLS, which means you get more use out of them than a dedicated, weapon only item.
PLUS, the parctice you get from using it for regular tasks tranlates into being able to deploy it more easily.
I deploy my knives multiple times throughout the day. How often do most people deploy their guns or ASP's?
AND, lest we forget, the OP asked for suggestions about a good FOLDING KNIFE FOR SD, not sticks, guns, napalm, swords, etc. A FOLDING KNIFE.
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Couple of big problems with your logic here in as much as self defense goes. Knives HAVE been used for thousands of years for defense. But since the invention of the gun... they took an immediate back seat. So thousands of years... yes... the last two hundred easily or in a dominant fashion... no.

The OP Did ask for advice about a folding knife. But in seeking knowledge sometimes we learn our initial idea was wrong to begin with. If I asked you which flame thrower was best for cooking chicken more than likely you'd stop me and suggest a grill of some sort isntead. Because my initial idea was off base a little. The OP is looking for knowledge above all else. It is a simple fact that a folding knife is better than bare hands and maybe a rock in a fight. But that's all it's better than. A fixed blade is FAR superior for this application. You're free to disagree but if you do I'm willing to bet you've never seen a folding knife colapse on someones fingers with not a huge amount of stress placed on the blade. It happens all the time, and is more apt to happen in such a violent encounter than cutting boxes or slicing rope.

As far as getting practice with deploying your chosen tool... Only an idiot would choose to carry such an item for defense and not set out to train with it on a regular basis. I can draw my sidearm FAR fast than I can get my folder out of my pocket. Perhaps I could draw it faster if I carried it in such a fashion as a weapon... but it's not a weapon... it's a pocket knife. And I can draw an ASP just about as quick as a knife. And with the flick of a wrist it's open and ready for work... just like my knife. The difference in an ASP and Knife of any kind (With the exception of a sword [which who carries those]) An Asp can end a violent encounter in one blow. A knife cannot. I don't care what secret techniques anyone knows... if you are going to go to work on another man with and knife... and he's fighting back... not only is it going to get ugly... but it's going to be a lot of work. ASP to the collar bone... it's over Johnny. That entire side of the body is now crippled, riddled with pain, and the urge to fight is quickly fading. And the urge to run quickly takes over.

I get it... lots of guys hold on to their prized folder as though it can do anything. Even stop an attacker. And again, I'd rather have that than bare hands. But if you find yourself in a fight for your life... and all you have is a folding knife, you failed to plan and are really in deep poop.

I know the OP asked about a folding knife for SD. But the fact is... this is a flawed want to begin with. It's like asking for the best screw driver to drive a nail with.
 
stabman said:
BUT, the knife has the advantage of lethality at grappling range(more so than a stick)
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You've obviously never seen what a lead pipe can do to a mans skull in one shot. You gotta do some serious work to cripple or end another mans assult with a knife. It's not like the movies where you stab them once in the gut and they look at you with that surprised look and then fall over. The human body can take a lot of abuse and I'd much rather be able to cave in a mans skull in one shot than have to start working them over with a knife.
 
Unbreakable said:
You've obviously never seen what a lead pipe can do to a mans skull in one shot. You gotta do some serious work to cripple or end another mans assult with a knife. It's not like the movies where you stab them once in the gut and they look at you with that surprised look and then fall over. The human body can take a lot of abuse and I'd much rather be able to cave in a mans skull in one shot than have to start working them over with a knife.
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I thought he was referring to a stick? :confused: People with hiking sticks get mauled by bears and two legged varmit, but there are those stories of a mountain man with his mighty buck 110 taking down a grizzly. I doubt a pre-manufactured hiking pole can do that. Those things are just a bunch of flimsy aluminum once then are bent the wrong way. Their design only gives support straight up and down.
 
stabman said:
Get a big Bowie then.
That way you have the best of both worlds, as it makes one hell of an impact device with the back end(better than an ASP:D).
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Have you ever seen someone get hit with an ASP? They drop like a sack of dirt. I'm not suggesting the back end of my Battle Mistress would feel great LOL. But I think a lot of people underestimate how devistating a weapon an ASP really is. Now TWO ASPS... that's hell on wheels.
 
batosai117 said:
I thought he was referring to a stick? :confused: People with hiking sticks get mauled by bears and two legged varmit, but there are those stories of a mountain man with his mighty buck 110 taking down a grizzly. I doubt a pre-manufactured hiking pole can do that. Those things are just a bunch of flimsy aluminum once then are bent the wrong way. Their design only gives support straight up and down.
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And that's exactly what they are my friend... Stories. No-one is killing a bear with a folding knife. No-one. Unless we're talking about a new born cub. Even if such an event happened once... it would have to be that rare bird story that doesn't prove anything at all. Is it possible.... MAYBE... is it likely... not in a million years. Once even twice proves nothing. For something to be standard practice it must be testable and repeatable. I dare anyone to pick a fight with a bear only taking a folding knife. Hell any knife.

Anyway... I lump lead pipe, ASP, baseball bat, and stick into the same category... (Bludgeons). Some are more effective than others. As far as an aluminum shaft goes... I think the length plays a huge role there in its effectiveness. 6 Foot... yeah it's gonna bend real easy. 2 Foot... I don't know. I'd hate someone to beat me to death with a 6D cell Maglite. And that's exactly what that is... an aluminum tube.
 
Unbreakable said:
And that's exactly what they are my friend... Stories. No-one is killing a bear with a folding knife. No-one. Unless we're talking about a new born cub. Even if such an event happened once... it would have to be that rare bird story that doesn't prove anything at all. Is it possible.... MAYBE... is it likely... not in a million years. Once even twice proves nothing. For something to be standard practice it must be testable and repeatable. I dare anyone to pick a fight with a bear only taking a folding knife. Hell any knife.

Anyway... I lump lead pipe, ASP, baseball bat, and stick into the same category... (Bludgeons). Some are more effective than others. As far as an aluminum shaft goes... I think the length plays a huge role there in its effectiveness. 6 Foot... yeah it's gonna bend real easy. 2 Foot... I don't know. I'd hate someone to beat me to death with a 6D cell Maglite. And that's exactly what that is... an aluminum tube.
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Haha, take that:

1. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1023312/posts

2. http://neveryetmelted.com/index.php/55-year-old-ontario-man-kills-bear-with-knife/

3. http://outdoornewsdaily.com/index.php/archives/546

Nevermind, you win :grumpy:

http://digg.com/people/Man_kills_bear_with_stick_and_he_s_got_scars_to_prove_it?t=19602273
 
Yes, there was a farmer in British Columbia just a couple years ago who killed an attacking bear with a large folder. It was reported in one of the BC newspapers, and also in Blade magazine I think.

No doubt you are right about the superiority of impact weapons against humans, but an impact weapon has to be fairly heavy to work. I have an Asp that I bought years ago, but it's too heavy for me to carry routinely; in fact I have never carried it anywhere. It's a lot easier to carry a small bottle of pepper spray and a folder.
 
If it absolutely has to be a folder,I'd recommend the ChinookIII or the ZT0200.They're not that light,but if it's for SD,I'd be worried more about how well built it is,than how light it is.A fixed blade would be the best choice for a SD knife IMO.
 
batosai117 said:
Haha, take that:

1. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1023312/posts

2. http://neveryetmelted.com/index.php/55-year-old-ontario-man-kills-bear-with-knife/

3. http://outdoornewsdaily.com/index.php/archives/546

Nevermind, you win :grumpy:

http://digg.com/people/Man_kills_bear_with_stick_and_he_s_got_scars_to_prove_it?t=19602273
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LOL... Anecdotal but not proof of anything. A few rare happenings still do not make a folder... or a stupid stick for that matter bear killing tools. Those would be the last two things on my list if I was going into a fight with a bear. Interesting stories though. I bet those people feel like the luckiest SOBs on the planet to have made it out of that. I wonder how many people in the history of the world fought a bear with only a knife or stick and are now bear poop. LOL.
 
Unbreakable said:
You've obviously never seen what a lead pipe can do to a mans skull in one shot.
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It STILL takes more room to get momentum than the amount of space required to make a knife work(contact).
That's a fact which, no matter how you try to twist things, you cannot dispute.
 
Unbreakable said:
As far as getting practice with deploying your chosen tool... Only an idiot would choose to carry such an item for defense and not set out to train with it on a regular basis. I can draw my sidearm FAR fast than I can get my folder out of my pocket.
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Many people who tote guns ARE idiots(same goes for knives), and they don't practice.
I can deploy my knives faster than a gun, and I compete in PPC.
I carry my knives as tools by the way, since I don't live in a war zone, or a ghetto(despite what some people think of the neighbourhood in which I live:)).
 
I am agreeing with most when they say that a weapon of opportunity is a better option than drawing a blade. Having said that.....I will still give my opinion on that. Spyderco makes a model called the Civilian (sorry if anyone has already mentioned this) made for law enforcement....it is a curved blade, serrated, and the only thing I know of that is reccomended for nothing but SD. Other than that, any hawkbill would do fine in my humble opinion....but still, this is a LAST DITCH weapon, after you have thrown all the rocks, broken all the sticks, and bloodied your knuckles, tried to run and kept getting chased down. If it were me working in the gun free part of the woods, I would just find a way to conceal my gun so it "didn't exist."

I used to work in a convenience store when I was a little bit younger, 3rd shift. They had a no gun policy--you would be fired if you had anything besides a pocket knife. But if it gets to the point where you must use a firearm, your job is the least of your concerns. I of course adopted this policy AFTER having a gun stuck in my face on the job.
 
stabman said:
It STILL takes more room to get momentum than the amount of space required to make a knife work(contact).
That's a fact which, no matter how you try to twist things, you cannot dispute.
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You don't understand leverage my friend. From a resting place on ones shoulder and heavy bludgeon can be made to swing with an incredible amount of force with very little effort or room required. Go watch fellas that train with escrima sticks and see how effect of a close quarters weapon can be made of a 26" stick. Turn it into a metal ASP... and you're doing serious damage. As a matter of a fact if we were betting on a guy with a knife and a guy with a stick (Both trained)... I'd put money on the guy with the stick.
 
stabman said:
Many people who tote guns ARE idiots(same goes for knives), and they don't practice.
I can deploy my knives faster than a gun, and I compete in PPC.
I carry my knives as tools by the way, since I don't live in a war zone, or a ghetto(despite what some people think of the neighbourhood in which I live:)).
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I compete IDPA here. Nice to know another gun guy. Anyway... who draws what faster is a circular argument. Bascially I draw my gun like a weapon and my knife like a tool so I've never really tried quick drawing my knife and then striking with it (Cause it doesn't go in the category in my world). When we do time drills we try to keep a double from the holster at around 1.10 to 1.8. Not impressive either... there are guys that are scary fast in this regard. I don't care who you are... you're not gonna end a fight in under 2 seconds with a pocket knife. You quite possibly could with a gun. So who draws what faster is of no real concern because in that respect... a gun wins everytime. Stick Vs Knife... I'm still going with the stick. Rule one of a knife fight... You are going to get cut. No matter how good you are or well trained. You are going to get cut. I'm confident stick vs knife would leave me cut... but I think suffering that... I'd have enough time to crush a mans eye socket and cave in a portion of his skull with an ASP. And that is a fight ender. No distortion, no twisting. Crushed skull equals no fight left. One of the best defenses against a knife is to stick your arm out there... I mean... I'd rather my arm get cut up than my throat. A good bludgeon will cripple an arm in one blow. Same can't be said for a knife. Knives are great if you can close the gap on an attacker. The question is... are they gonna let you?
 
Unbreakable said:
I compete IDPA here. Nice to know another gun guy. . A good bludgeon will cripple an arm in one blow. Same can't be said for a knife. Knives are great if you can close the gap on an attacker. The question is... are they gonna let you?
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Yep, gun comperitions are fun.:)
If you're better with the stick, then by all means go with it.
I prefer blades myself, but that's why there's so many nifty options, because we all have our different strengths.
 
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