I see that now.. It's a wonder I haven't been seriously injured over the years using the crappy handles I've carved with horizontal grain.. If those old time loggers that told me about how to orient handle grain in a axe were still alive, I would go straight and bitch slap them- HARD!
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Best Made Co - Black Donald Hudson Bay Axe
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Horizontal grain is fine, especially in hickory where horizontal force has less impact than other woods. Good grain orientation is preferred for strength but you're unlikely to break a handle aside from abuse or accidents. There may be other benefits to the horizontal grain as well.
I have a horizontally-grained handle that is thinner than the custom extra-light specs in Cook's book. No problems with it yet, and there shouldn't be unless I whip the handle during a mistake.
I have a horizontally-grained handle that is thinner than the custom extra-light specs in Cook's book. No problems with it yet, and there shouldn't be unless I whip the handle during a mistake.
If you're using a straight haft and it's not subject to overstrikes or severe prying motions then any orientation of grain is quite acceptable, and frankly, diagonal grain is probably preferred since it represents a combination of both. Run out is the typical culprit that kills handles. Problem with curved hafts with horizontal grain is that run out becomes automatic unless you miraculously find a wood blank with the shape of a curve in it already.
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Yeah, I tend towards double-bits, so that makes it a little easier.
I wish this forum had a like button!
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This thread has taught me a lot.
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Lolz 
Never mind any of that foolishness.
The real travesty was from a previous and recent highly opinionated argument about proper grain orientation that cost us Old Axeman from contributing further to the forum in new and running threads. Most of us are totally unaware that he (yes this was Bernie himself!) was long ago tasked with researching and producing these 'infamous' gov't produced videos. And (IMO) he did an exemplary job of them.
It is not right for any of us to have refuted him. To spout off rebuttals against the actual gentleman that was author and chief actor of the 'axe bible' were entirely misplaced and leaves us more and more to rely on millennial-Internet-educated folks armed with wishful thinking, 1/2 hour's experience, a belief that 2-3 cross wedges and all manner of fussing about, buying boutique Scandinavian etc, are what hanging axes is/was/are all about in relation to 100 years ago when people actually made a living and heated their houses via well kept/well chosen axes.
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Your logical fallacy is...
Experts are wrong all the time; no one is infallible. It's perfectly reasonable to question an authority on a subject. If they are in the right, they should be able to convincingly defend their position. Those making counter-claims similarly so. Being outright rude or disrespectful in the course of that debate, however, is definitely unacceptable.
Experts are wrong all the time; no one is infallible. It's perfectly reasonable to question an authority on a subject. If they are in the right, they should be able to convincingly defend their position. Those making counter-claims similarly so. Being outright rude or disrespectful in the course of that debate, however, is definitely unacceptable.
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Some context should be considered since some may think I was the rude one. He had previously resorted to personal attacks against anyone who disagreed with him. Then, after disagreements on handle grain, he started a whole new thread on the topic which basically came down to "I'm right because I'm right." He had no interest in debate or hearing other thoughts on the subject, he was simply trying to assert his authority on the subject, and anyone who challenged him was talked down to.
Given that, I just said he should stop talking down to people, mainly because it was unwarranted and because other people here have plenty of experience which shouldn't be ignored or discredited.
Given that, I just said he should stop talking down to people, mainly because it was unwarranted and because other people here have plenty of experience which shouldn't be ignored or discredited.
This is exactly why I've conducted dozens of workshops for BMC and taught literally hundreds of people how to restore, hang, and sharpen vintage axes.
That's commendable. Anything to get more folks out there to appreciate that old school wooden handled implements are lifetime propositions, repairable, and don't require infinite skills in order to maintain. Chances are impartial workshops to promote axes doesn't hurt your sales either.
You, Sir, to the best of my knowledge have been very polite on this forum. There just seems to be animosity from a few members when it comes to the topic of grain orientation. I have been attacked out of the blue several times when I talk about grain. But, hey I try to have fun and get a chuckle out of it. (Copenhagen juice all over my puter screen yesterday on this very thread)
On the topic of grain, I have come to learn, for those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
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I think you will find these pictures interesting. They load a little slow (at least for me) but IHMO are well worth the wait. My favorite is the fourth picture showing axe handles produced entirely by hand. :thumbup:
If you do look at them (this is not a trick question), is the guy in the fourth picture with the froe splitting down the tangential or radial plane?
Anyone else have the answer?
Bob
FYI
Cost was $65.00 to attend.
Bob
The plot thickens. 65 clams is pittance as an admittance fee if you're Big City, sports fanatic, or really into something, and money is no object. But rjdankert you do make an excellent point: 20 curious folks forking over $65 for a couple of hours of enlightenment can generate serious coins ($1300!) for the instigator of an axe course who proffers to be doing this as a public service/hobby a few nights a week, and also happens to have on hand a cache of 'unspoken for' products for sale in the backroom.
Then again room rental is skyhigh in New York and likely so (but in reverse) is public interest in old tools there, so I've also got to go with 'benefit of the doubt' about motive, every now and again, too.
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While the money sounds high on an hourly rate, workshops like that aren't a daily occurrence and need to be looked at differently. It's more of a thing to be looked at like a salary. After all, how many times a month do you think a group of 20 happens? Certainly not every day.
Our axe workshops are typically 4-6 people and run for 3-4hrs on average (sometimes longer if the group is really into it, or we host it during the weekend). We used to accept more people but with any more than 6 we found that we ran out of time and space for any significant hands-on instruction. Trust me, we operate these on a break even model. After putting in 8 hours at the office, sprinting to the store, setting up, conducting the workshop, and cleaning up, I'm lucky to get home before 11pm. I started doing these workshops before I started working for BMC full time. I have a background in teaching and these workshops grew out of the fact that I had so many people emailing me about my process after I posted it online. It seemed only natural. We currently get requests for these workshops from around the country, but even at $65 a person we can't really afford to take it on the road. I don't mean to ruffle feathers but there's plenty of free advice on YouTube, and it's often worth what you pay for it (a few notable exceptions aside).
I'll also point out that I've never sold axes for restoration, nor have I ever sold any of my own restorations. Sure, the workshops bring people into the store, and sometimes they buy something, but it certainly isn't our main motivation. I'm happy to share the passion and joy of working on axes with as many people as possible. The rising tide lifts all boats.
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Wow, the range of topics in this thread. Some of you guys are weird. But not me, nor am I hipster. Don't let the beard and boots fool you.
So Mike, let's see an "after" photo. That thing has earned some love!
Memphis long to no see buddy. Hopefully you have rescued my thread. I'll post some pics up sometime. I'm in between workbenches right now so really don't have a great setup for proper sharpening, but will soon. Then Demon Axe Works will be open for business.
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