Best Made Co - Black Donald Hudson Bay Axe

Status
Not open for further replies.
300Six said:
. . . But rjdankert you do make an excellent point. . .
Click to expand...

I only posted to fill in the picture so to speak. It's up to each individual to weigh the cost benefit to them and decide if they would want to participate in a workshop. :)

Bob
 
nickzdon said:
Our axe workshops are typically 4-6 people and run for 3-4hrs on average (sometimes longer if the group is really into it, or we host it during the weekend). We used to accept more people but with any more than 6 we found that we ran out of time and space for any significant hands-on instruction. Trust me, we operate these on a break even model. After putting in 8 hours at the office, sprinting to the store, setting up, conducting the workshop, and cleaning up, I'm lucky to get home before 11pm. I started doing these workshops before I started working for BMC full time. I have a background in teaching and these workshops grew out of the fact that I had so many people emailing me about my process after I posted it online. It seemed only natural. We currently get requests for these workshops from around the country, but even at $65 a person we can't really afford to take it on the road. I don't mean to ruffle feathers but there's plenty of free advice on YouTube, and it's often worth what you pay for it (a few notable exceptions aside).

I'll also point out that I've never sold axes for restoration, nor have I ever sold any of my own restorations. Sure, the workshops bring people into the store, and sometimes they buy something, but it certainly isn't our main motivation. I'm happy to share the passion and joy of working on axes with as many people as possible. The rising tide lifts all boats.
Click to expand...

You don't need to justify yourself. Some people are always looking for ulterior motives.
 
Chignecto Woodsman said:
Some context should be considered since some may think I was the rude one. He had previously resorted to personal attacks against anyone who disagreed with him. Then, after disagreements on handle grain, he started a whole new thread on the topic which basically came down to "I'm right because I'm right." He had no interest in debate or hearing other thoughts on the subject, he was simply trying to assert his authority on the subject, and anyone who challenged him was talked down to.

Given that, I just said he should stop talking down to people, mainly because it was unwarranted and because other people here have plenty of experience which shouldn't be ignored or discredited.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I even think that he is mostly correct, but I'm open to other ideas and would like to at least hear them. If someone requires me to "kiss the ring" to earn their enlightened presence...there is the door. His leaving is regrettable, but it is due to his failing, not ours.
 
jblyttle said:
You don't need to justify yourself. Some people are always looking for ulterior motives.
Click to expand...

jblyttle said:
Exactly. I even think that he is mostly correct, but I'm open to other ideas and would like to at least hear them. If someone requires me to "kiss the ring" to earn their enlightened presence...there is the door. His leaving is regrettable, but it is due to his failing, not ours.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.
 
300Six said:
Never mind any of that foolishness.
The real travesty was from a previous and recent highly opinionated argument about proper grain orientation that cost us Old Axeman from contributing further to the forum in new and running threads. Most of us are totally unaware that he (yes this was Bernie himself!) was long ago tasked with researching and producing these 'infamous' gov't produced videos. And (IMO) he did an exemplary job of them.
It is not right for any of us to have refuted him. To spout off rebuttals against the actual gentleman that was author and chief actor of the 'axe bible' were entirely misplaced and leaves us more and more to rely on millennial-Internet-educated folks armed with wishful thinking, 1/2 hour's experience, a belief that 2-3 cross wedges and all manner of fussing about, buying boutique Scandinavian etc, are what hanging axes is/was/are all about in relation to 100 years ago when people actually made a living and heated their houses via well kept/well chosen axes.
Click to expand...

You are wrong. He blatantly told me I was misinformed, then tried to shove "his views" on the subject of grain down my throat. I think writing the "taxpayer funded" axe manual went straight to his head being as he had never been challenged on anything written in his "bible" before.
 
jblyttle said:
Exactly. I even think that he is mostly correct, but I'm open to other ideas and would like to at least hear them. If someone requires me to "kiss the ring" to earn their enlightened presence...there is the door. His leaving is regrettable, but it is due to his failing, not ours.
Click to expand...

"I think he is mostly correct" Please enlighten me as to where he is wrong. JByou don't have the knowledge nor experience to be able to say such a thing with any more conviction than "I think". Increasingly so I place less and less weight to advice from most contributors to this forum (there are a few exceptions, and those 1/2 dozen know who they are) and having Bernie on board at least gave us that much more credibility on some of the topics. Bunch of gung ho kids arguing about something they know nothing about except what they read on the Internet, or found out yesterday while chopping up a dead branch or felling a Christmas tree with a $200 artisan axe is not the same as hearing from someone that lived and breathed that trade 1/2 century ago.
 
300Six said:
"I think he is mostly correct" Please enlighten me as to where he is wrong. JByou don't have the knowledge nor experience to be able to say such a thing with any more conviction than "I think". Increasingly so I place less and less weight to advice from most contributors to this forum (there are a few exceptions, and those 1/2 dozen know who they are) and having Bernie on board at least gave us that much more credibility on some of the topics. Bunch of gung ho kids arguing about something they know nothing about except what they read on the Internet, or found out yesterday while chopping up a dead branch or felling a Christmas tree with a $200 artisan axe is not the same as hearing from someone that lived and breathed that trade 1/2 century ago.
Click to expand...

Really? OK, I'll just shut up now. I am obviously not worthy of having an opinion, and I obviously have nothing to add to the discussion.

BTW, this is another example of what could be an honest discussion being driven into the ground simply because someone has no clue about how to talk to other people. I have said this before, but your mode of "discussion" is a full frontal attack with underhanded insults thrown in for good measure. If I have to explain to you why Bernie was wrong about how he acted, then any effort on my part would be wasted. He could have invented axes himself and patented the only way that they are to be maintained, and he would still have been dead wrong as to how he behaved. You don't come into a group of people, crap all over them and then expect to be accepted as God. If you are surprised by how people react to that then you are the fool.
 
Another successful Best Made thread! Polarizing topics bring the egos out of the woodwork.

It's possible that Bernie was a little out of line and that he could have been handled more tactfully :)

Something I haven't seen mentioned about Best Made in any thread, perhaps because I'm the only one who feels this way, is that their exposure has actually led me to view American axes as an option. Many are quick to say that Best Made is just Council Velvicut, but I really don't care because I frankly lost all interest in Council Tool already. Having seen so many of their lower grade axes in person, I would never have purchased a Velvicut (I doubt I ever will). Best Made's marketing and presence, exposure, information, Nick coming on the forums and engaging people about the products, are all reasons why I would absolutely buy a Best Made but Council Tool seems inaccessible and of suspect quality.
 
You are right about one thing- I don't know everything. I'd be the first to admit that. But I do try to help and share info and enthusiasm when I can, instead of just taking a giant dump on everyone and everything, all the time.

I will offer one universal truth- if you talk down to people and generally treat them like crap, you can be the biggest expert in the world and nobody will listen to or care about a single thing that you have to say.
 
300Six said:
"I think he is mostly correct" Please enlighten me as to where he is wrong. JByou don't have the knowledge nor experience to be able to say such a thing with any more conviction than "I think". Increasingly so I place less and less weight to advice from most contributors to this forum (there are a few exceptions, and those 1/2 dozen know who they are) and having Bernie on board at least gave us that much more credibility on some of the topics. Bunch of gung ho kids arguing about something they know nothing about except what they read on the Internet, or found out yesterday while chopping up a dead branch or felling a Christmas tree with a $200 artisan axe is not the same as hearing from someone that lived and breathed that trade 1/2 century ago.
Click to expand...

Ever select, and chop down a hickory tree then split staves from it just for the purpose of making axe handles? Old Axman, have you? Either of you two ever make a haft from a tree start to finish?? A stave? Have either of you ever even worked raw hickory, or have you just rasped around on a prefab haft tongue with a 4 in hand to fit a head and 'proclaimed I am expert"?
 
jblyttle said:
You are right about one thing- I don't know everything. I'd be the first to admit that. But I do try to help and share info and enthusiasm when I can, instead of just taking a giant dump on everyone and everything, all the time.

I will offer one universal truth- if you talk down to people and generally treat them like crap, you can be the biggest expert in the world and nobody will listen to or care about a single thing that you have to say.
Click to expand...

J.B., you are one reason I started posting in this forum. YOU are great and respected!
 
chuxwan said:
Another successful Best Made thread! Polarizing topics bring the egos out of the woodwork.

It's possible that Bernie was a little out of line and that he could have been handled more tactfully :)

Something I haven't seen mentioned about Best Made in any thread, perhaps because I'm the only one who feels this way, is that their exposure has actually led me to view American axes as an option. Many are quick to say that Best Made is just Council Velvicut, but I really don't care because I frankly lost all interest in Council Tool already. Having seen so many of their lower grade axes in person, I would never have purchased a Velvicut (I doubt I ever will). Best Made's marketing and presence, exposure, information, Nick coming on the forums and engaging people about the products, are all reasons why I would absolutely buy a Best Made but Council Tool seems inaccessible and of suspect quality.
Click to expand...
I tried to handle him tactfully, he was 'Axe God"! The reason he left was because, 300 followed him around like a puppy!;)
 
chuxwan said:
Another successful Best Made thread! Polarizing topics bring the egos out of the woodwork.

It's possible that Bernie was a little out of line and that he could have been handled more tactfully :)

Something I haven't seen mentioned about Best Made in any thread, perhaps because I'm the only one who feels this way, is that their exposure has actually led me to view American axes as an option. Many are quick to say that Best Made is just Council Velvicut, but I really don't care because I frankly lost all interest in Council Tool already. Having seen so many of their lower grade axes in person, I would never have purchased a Velvicut (I doubt I ever will). Best Made's marketing and presence, exposure, information, Nick coming on the forums and engaging people about the products, are all reasons why I would absolutely buy a Best Made but Council Tool seems inaccessible and of suspect quality.
Click to expand...

That was my experience. The ones I saw in person were as bad or worse than anything from Home Hardware. However, I would buy one if I found a good one (and needed it). I do think they generally make a good axe, there may just be some poor quality control at times. Swedes get it at times too.

Old Axeman did say he was done, and then said he wasn;t done here a while later. Maybe he was just sticking around for that argument, and generally most people do agree with his position on hafts. So maybe he'll be back and we can ask him for some stories.

As for experience, obviously some will be more experienced than others. Keep in mind that these days it can be quite difficult to learn how to use an axe if you don't have family that knows all the rules. My father is very experienced with a chainsaw, and I've helped him a lot. Helps for general safety but in wielding an axe and figuring out notches, safety, grinds, where to cut, etc. it can be a hard go. The youtube tutorials where the person doesn't know what they're doing is one example, and the college competitors also show how long it takes to get proficient with an axe.

Theory and questions can always be good though. Mors Kochanski is one of the most experienced outdoorsmen there is and he often says that in every teaching session a student will come up with a question that stumps him, or introduce another idea which improves his own. That's a good way to see things, I think.
 
Chignecto Woodsman said:
Old Axeman did say he was done, and then said he wasn;t done here a while later. Maybe he was just sticking around for that argument, and generally most people do agree with his position on hafts. So maybe he'll be back and we can ask him for some stories.
Click to expand...

Axes helves are like butchering knives, any one style can get the job done, but certain styles, make certain tasks easier and more efficient. If a logger fells or bucks day in day out, horizontal grain is a benefit.
 
Thanks to this thread, and for some of the contentious posts, my interest in USA made axes has been renewed...so much so that I had to buy a Hudson Bay axe. Thanks to some enterprising Amish folks, Snow & Nealley is back, and I scored a 150th Anniversary limited edition 100% USA made Hudson Bay. Step aside Council, there's a new kid in town.:eek:
 
Alnamvet68 said:
Thanks to this thread, and for some of the contentious posts, my interest in USA made axes has been renewed...so much so that I had to buy a Hudson Bay axe. Thanks to some enterprising Amish folks, Snow & Nealley is back, and I scored a 150th Anniversary limited edition 100% USA made Hudson Bay. Step aside Council, there's a new kid in town.:eek:
Click to expand...

How's the grain?:)
 
Alnamvet68 said:
Thanks to this thread, and for some of the contentious posts, my interest in USA made axes has been renewed...so much so that I had to buy a Hudson Bay axe. Thanks to some enterprising Amish folks, Snow & Nealley is back, and I scored a 150th Anniversary limited edition 100% USA made Hudson Bay. Step aside Council, there's a new kid in town.:eek:
Click to expand...

Be sure to let us know how you like it when it arrives! The ones I've seen have looked nice but it'd be nice to hear how it holds up after a little dirt time. :)
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Be sure to let us know how you like it when it arrives! The ones I've seen have looked nice but it'd be nice to hear how it holds up after a little dirt time. :)
Click to expand...

It should be here Saturday; which reminds me FortyTwo, seeing as you're a stones Throw from Smyrna, I'm surprised you haven't picked up the line.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top