Best production liner lock ?

When dozens of people in this thread have said they think the Military is one of the best production liner locks, I think my "Just get a Military" comment is relevant. If you want to argue over why you think the Military isn't one of the best liner locks, go ahead. Knock yourself out.

I don't want to argue. I was simply asking why you said what little you said. Dozens of other people have mentioned other knives, so to leave the OP without a reason seems odd to me.

Based on what you said, any question can be answered with a "Just get the xxxx" once you feel there is a consensus. Not very helpful.
 
I hate to be a party pooper, but my experience with liner-locks is not so good. I would not recommend any liner-lock, but as I've owned, used, and had issues with several named in this thread, I thought I'd share my experiences. These are the liner-locks I've had and noticed problems with:

Emerson cqc-10 = bladeplay, and fail at spine test
Microtech Socom Elite = failed spine test
Microtech Amphibian = closed after thrown into several layers of corrugated cardboard, failed spine test
ZT 0200 = failed spine test
Buck Strider = (cheapest version that looks like the sng) developed bladeplay, failed spine test
Al Mar SERE 2000 = went from rock solid to bladeplay after one stab into a phone book (This was one of the first liner-locks I had issue with, so at the time, I didn't know any better).

Note: when I say spine test, I mean I hit the spine of the blade on either my knee, or a carpeted 4x4 (cat tower).

I have never used for any extended period or otherwise tested a Spyderco liner-lock. Maybe they are the best, because the rest aint.
 
I got severely cut with a liner lock. I don't trust them, but if i HAD to use one, I guess I'd go with the CS Ti-Lite, not for the knife itself, but because the folded-over liner contacts well over half the tang.
 
I don't want to argue. I was simply asking why you said what little you said. Dozens of other people have mentioned other knives, so to leave the OP without a reason seems odd to me.

Based on what you said, any question can be answered with a "Just get the xxxx" once you feel there is a consensus. Not very helpful.


I'm sure the O.P. has read all the remarks and recommendations for the Military. So by the time he comes across my "Just get the Military", he'll know why.

I guess I could have said "+1 to all the comments on the Military".
 
I hate to be a party pooper, but my experience with liner-locks is not so good. I would not recommend any liner-lock, but as I've owned, used, and had issues with several named in this thread, I thought I'd share my experiences. These are the liner-locks I've had and noticed problems with:

Emerson cqc-10 = bladeplay, and fail at spine test
Microtech Socom Elite = failed spine test
Microtech Amphibian = closed after thrown into several layers of corrugated cardboard, failed spine test
ZT 0200 = failed spine test
Buck Strider = (cheapest version that looks like the sng) developed bladeplay, failed spine test
Al Mar SERE 2000 = went from rock solid to bladeplay after one stab into a phone book (This was one of the first liner-locks I had issue with, so at the time, I didn't know any better).

Note: when I say spine test, I mean I hit the spine of the blade on either my knee, or a carpeted 4x4 (cat tower).

I have never used for any extended period or otherwise tested a Spyderco liner-lock. Maybe they are the best, because the rest aint.

:confused: How does one hit a knife with their knee hard enough to make it fail a spine whack test but not feel it the next day. The only knife I have ever spine whacked has been a SAK tinker :grumpy: fails every time, yet I have carried on me for the past year almost religiously.
 
Note: when I say spine test, I mean I hit the spine of the blade on either my knee, or a carpeted 4x4 (cat tower).

I don't normally hit things fast (nor hard) with the spine of a blade while I'm actually cutting something, so that's not much of a test in my book. I can make anything break if I use it the wrong way.

Just sayin...
 
:confused: How does one hit a knife with their knee hard enough to make it fail a spine whack test but not feel it the next day. The only knife I have ever spine whacked has been a SAK tinker :grumpy: fails every time, yet I have carried on me for the past year almost religiously.

You don't need to hit a knife hard to have it fail. If the lockup is sloppy a tap will do it.
 
Benchmade Gravitator, if you can find one. Most solid, best fitted liner lock I've ever seen, bar none.:thumbup:
 
I hate to be a party pooper, but my experience with liner-locks is not so good. I would not recommend any liner-lock, but as I've owned, used, and had issues with several named in this thread, I thought I'd share my experiences. These are the liner-locks I've had and noticed problems with:

Emerson cqc-10 = bladeplay, and fail at spine test
Microtech Socom Elite = failed spine test
Microtech Amphibian = closed after thrown into several layers of corrugated cardboard, failed spine test
ZT 0200 = failed spine test
Buck Strider = (cheapest version that looks like the sng) developed bladeplay, failed spine test
Al Mar SERE 2000 = went from rock solid to bladeplay after one stab into a phone book (This was one of the first liner-locks I had issue with, so at the time, I didn't know any better).

Note: when I say spine test, I mean I hit the spine of the blade on either my knee, or a carpeted 4x4 (cat tower).

I have never used for any extended period or otherwise tested a Spyderco liner-lock. Maybe they are the best, because the rest aint.

You don't need to hit a knife hard to have it fail. If the lockup is sloppy a tap will do it.

I find Siggyhk's post somewhat difficult to believe. Josh, you've been around a lot of knives. In his failed lock knives list above, which ones do you think have a sloppy lock up?
 
I find Siggyhk's post somewhat difficult to believe. Josh, you've been around a lot of knives. In his failed lock knives list above, which ones do you think have a sloppy lock up?

The Emerson I had didn't have the greatest lockup, but I find it hard to believe the ZT200 or the Emerson would fail a spine tap. I haven't handled either of the Microtechs, so I can't comment on those.
 
You don't have to believe me, obviously. If you have one of these knives try it yourself -maybe yours will hold up, maybe it wont. Other than that, I'll just say that I swear on my mothers eyes that what I've said is true.
The ZT and the Microtechs both locked up "without any play" and still failed. ----Liner-lock thickness is a non issue.
 
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You don't have to believe me, obviously. If you have one of these knives try it yourself. Other than that, I'll just say that I swear on my mothers eyes that what I've said is true.
The ZT and the Microtechs both locked up "without any play" and still failed. ----Liner-lock thickness is a non issue.

If you had lockup problems with a ZT I highly recommend you give Kershaw a call. They have an excellent warranty on their products.

If the Microtechs are autos and you aren't a person deemed capable of having one then you're probably SOL.
 
These knives are all long gone and I wont be owning another lock of this type for the rest of my life. Microtechs were manuals. Sorry to take the thread off topic too.
 
All this talk of spine whacks reminded me of a similar discussion that I'd read some time ago about liner locks over in STR's sub-forum. He has some very interesting observations about which company's liner locks he prefers, liner locks in general vs other lock types, and spine whack tests. Here's his first post in the discussion:

Contrary to popular belief around here I am not comfortable pitting one company against another if I can help it. The fact that there are many more liner locks in this industry than all other locking type folders is worth mentioning I think. Its been said if the liner lock did not exist the industry would be 2/3rds the size it is now. I would say due to this that we should expect more issues with the liner lock and indeed that is the case. I would say the liner lock is the most controversial lock in the industry for a whole lot of reasons and at the same time the most popular in the industry for a whole lot of reasons. No two makers or manufacturers seem to have the same thoughts on what works and what doesn't, what is correct and best and what is not or even what the liner lock is or is not capable of handling. No two individuals seem to have the same ideas of what its characteristics are under load either. Testing brings out some strange results and if nothing else testing proves that this type of lock is quite simply the most unreliable type lock made in folding knives, particularly in certain uses that load the lock with extremes of pressure and wear.

Not wanting to point fingers or be accused of having some agenda, because I don't, it gets tricky for me these days. I am a political atheist when it comes to being asked these things and will not drink the kook aid or tow the party line just because of majority opinion. I know enough to get in trouble and that can be a bad deal for guys like me. I get a large sampling of knives sent to me for work other than lock repairs so I get to see quite a bit of todays liner locks as well as others both when they need work and when they are working fine and only here for something like a pocket clip or just some new clothes. A surprising number of them defeat with ease that owners are completely unaware are so unreliable until I notice too and yes even some of your favorite ones.

Generally speaking I like and prefer a 7 degree angle for liner locks. Thats flatter in case you are wondering. It seems in my observations that Kershaw, Cold Steel, Buck, and a few others seem to use this angle or very close to it on their liner lock products consistantly. Some of the 12 and 15 degree angles from other companies really scare me. Actually the inconsistancy of some scare me also. I've tested some of these that are flat and sharply angled and the flat ones are more reliable. I've found with the ones above 12 degrees that they defeat far too easy when the contact interface is pitched that sharply. Usually they hold for a bit but after a certain amount of pressure on the spine or tip of the blade the lock just slides off even if its titanium which is known for sticking to dissimilar metals. Needless to say, when this critical pressure point is reached the lock slides off the contact interface and the blade closes cutting anything in its path.

Again though even the good angled ones can defeat. They all need tested to be sure they are where they can be trusted for normal use. I have a liner locking folder on the way back to one of the above mentioned companies for easy defeat problems that just arrived brand new in the box the other day.

One of the main issues with liner locks is of course how much of the lock actually gets out behind the blade. Most all the problems associated with these are on newer knives people buy thinking they are ready to rock when in fact makers and manufacturers would be well advised to warn the user to break it in first. They'll tell you its sharp but you are left on your own for the lock lessons.

Cold Steel's Peerless liner lock is my favorite in the industry. I've tested the crap out of some of these and they are impressive a high percentage of the time. Where they are not so impressive is in how hard they can be to operate. They rate the worst for ease of use I'd say but once they break in they become very sweet and are far more reliable than most for both wear and long term abuse based on my own testings. I'd have to say they rank as one of the stronger ones also. Don't get me wrong. Lynn Thompson is not my favorite individual anymore than Mick Strider or Duane Dwyer are but they make a fine product. Speaking solely on the product I rate what I've seen very high in the Peerless locks by Cold Steel. Their locks of this type have held up to more free hanging weight than many other so called hard use folders.

I like Kershaws knives and feel that many of their products offer much more bang for the buck than many knives three or four times the price made in the same country, made with the same materials and often times by the same processes.

I'd have to say these two, Cold Steel, and Kershaw are my favorite liner lock makers. Spyderco, Buck, and BenchMade fall in after that with Emerson dead last for me mostly due to the crappy finish which I kid you not is just flat out ignored on many of the ones I see but for the most part they function to a high level of accuracy and reliability but in my testing and my opinion no more so than a good Spyderco if more so at all. Still though to me a liner lock is always going to be my least favored style of lock. I just don't much care for them and I never and I mean never recommend them to someone that wants to hard stab. This to me is insane but hey, do whatever you want. I personally would sooner hard stab a mediocre frame lock I can get my fingers wrapped around on to secure the lock than I would even the best liner locks made.


STR

Some of his main points are that both liner and frame lock knives need to "break in" before the lock is at its strongest, liner lock knives aren't a good choice if you plan on doing some serious stabbing, and the spine whack test is not valid.
 
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lock up does not have to be sloppy to fail a spine whack, or even a tap. I have had a few blades fail without any wiggle.
 
G10, titanium liner with a very strong lockup, and S30V blade with a great design. The beretta blade is stonewashed and excellent knife for the money.
 
Throwing in a number here to fuel the fire. The thickness of the Spyderco Military Ti frame lock is .137". The S90V blade thickness is .145". The engagement is over 75%.
 
I've never had a LL(or any lock) fail on me from a reputable company.Maybe I'm just lucky.
 
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I've never had a liner lock from any company fail on me, even the cheapest gas station POS you've ever seen. Maybe I'm lucky, and maybe it's because I learned how to use a folding knife when I was a Cub Scout. ;)
 
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