Best value in a production knife brand

Hi! I think like this: the quality of one thing is the degree to which this meets a specific set of requirements. The quality of one thing can be determined by comparing its inherent characteristics against a set of requirements. If these intrinsic characteristics meet all the requirements against which we evaluate, we can say that the thing has a good or excellent quality. Conversely, if its intrinsic characteristics do not meet the requirements against which we measure, we say that the quality is low or poor. Quality, therefore, is a matter of degrees and a relative concept. It depends from the set of reference requirements which we choose to evaluate against and from the evaluator. And yes, “transcendent” is also a dimension of quality valued by many (e.g.: this thing gives me a piece of mind, this product just makes me feel good) :).

But if it was just so, quality would be something exclusively subjective, no chance to “objectifying” it and would be relegated to the plane of opinions, tastes, preferences. It would never assume a "scientific" value, value that actually it owns. It’s true that the level of satisfaction can be subjective and also subjective can be some requirements against which we measure it. But other requirements can be extremely objective, so is their assessment. We call some of these “objective” requirements, for example, product specifications and standards. One cannot improve what cannot be measured :).

One simple principle of the objective quality evaluation for me is the “fit for use” concept. Which is the intended use of this thing? What performances I want/need to get from this? Here it’s possible to be very objective. Speaking of knives, measurable values can be assigned for e.g.: edge holding (CATRA), steel toughness, lock strength, etc. Here it makes a lot of sense to compare similar products against a set of specific objective requirements, and see how they behave. That’s what many consumer groups and test laboratories do all day. What detergent washes better at 40 degrees in washing-machines? Which TV model consumes less in an hour? Which computer has the fastest processor? Which set of garden furniture is more resistant to weathering and aging? When the set of requirements I test my thing against are “objectified” (basically a numerical value is assigned), the comparison between things becomes "scientific”. By comparing my thing against a set of objective requirements that it shall meet, I can, in effect, say one thing is better or worse than another one :) .

Another principle I recognize is the “value for money”, which measure the relationship between quality/price. Yes, they have a relationship :D ! Let’s say two things have a very similar or equal degree of satisfaction for the same set of requirements. One thing cost 100 and the other costs 10. The second thing is ten times better in terms of value for money, it can satisfy the same set of objective requirements for one tenth of the cost.

A different ball game, in my opinion, is the “perceived quality”. When in the sphere of “objective” quality, it would be relatively easy for me to be guided into a purchase. Objectifying the set of requirements against which to assess things and adding to the result the figure for the cost, hardly I would make mistakes. The problem (or opportunity – it depends :) !) it arises when one begins to introduce among the requirements to be met subjective elements, for which one cannot define an objective numerical value. For example, the aesthetics (beautiful for me, ugly for you, insignificant to him), the prestige arising from the possession (status symbol), the feeling of accomplishment, the confidence in the brand, the appreciation of workmanship and skills, the brand public image and their values, the maker history, the personal experience of the customer with other products of the same brand, the opinion leaders, experts and consumer groups, the advertising, etc.

This introduction of subjective requirements in the set of requirements against which to judge the thing, is added to the already subjective classification and the relativity (somehow built-in) in quality (e.g.: for an equal degree of satisfaction, a single requirement can “weight” more or less on the total judgment from different evaluators). The introduction of non-objective requirements to be met, zeroes any possibility of objectivity in the evaluation of two similar objects. Here we leave the realm of objective quality and we enter in the kingdom of the perceived quality. The perceived quality can have little or nothing to do with the actual characteristics of the thing that we are evaluating :p. This happens because we now assess against not-objective requirements and we know, judgments, opinions, feelings, experiences, trends, ambitions, opinions, personal values, etc., are subjective and they vary a lot from individual to individual. We also exit the rational sphere to get into the emotional one. Which is also fine and sometimes even more rewarding :). Take care.
 
I think you can't beat Victorinox, Opinel, Mora, Rough Rider, Tramontina in their areas... just great price/quality ratio.
For folders if I say Ganzo the whole forum would jump on me due to their propensity to "borrow" designs so I'll just say the Spyderco Tenacious range instead... I mean I love my PM2 and it's an awesome knife, but it's not 5 times better than the Tenacious, as the price difference might suggest...
 
I said several times this wasn't about any individual brand. However what I notice here is that ZT seems to have a few folks that come out anytime someone has something to say they don't like. I pointed out Benchmade as well and I personally own 9 benchmades. 3 of which I actually purchased from you personally on the exchange, which you were a pleasure to deal with I may add. As for CRK they are a completely different breed. I consider them to be more of a custom brand than a production knife. Much lower production numbers also. As far as ZT, yeah, I think they are extremely overpriced, but I also think Benchmades are getting there along with other brands.

I didn't start this thread to argue about ZT. I started it to see if people had any knives that they could contribute that were legitamit value for the money and to vent a bit about how "all" of these knife companies are getting crazy with their prices. I don't necessarily have anything against ZT, I just find that they, as well as others, are pricing their knives a bit high. It just seems that there are a few people that can't stand when someone says that ZT isn't the best knife ever built. All good though on my end my friend.

I know it's seven days later but value includes more than cost of material and precision machining. Ti is Ti, and CNC is CNC so it comes down to style and after sale support including warranty these add value.
 
1) Benchmade
2) Spyderco. Their problem is a lot of the knives in the same price range are made in Taiwan.
3) ZT. More expensive but they tend to have some impractical designs.
 
One of the best values out there now are the Kizer Vanguard series. These are quality liner lock folders with VG-10 blade and G-10 scales going for $50-$90!
 
I know it's seven days later but value includes more than cost of material and precision machining. Ti is Ti, and CNC is CNC so it comes down to style and after sale support including warranty these add value.

I agree that value is something that is more than a review of a product. Price comes into play and your experience with things that are priced similarly. The warranty thing is nice. Support is nice. But honestly, I have only contacted one knife manufacturer in 50 years over a possible warranty issue. That was a long time ago. I really don't care about the warranty unless the knife just falls apart with little use. Rough Riders I read have a habit of loosing a scale with use.... warranty. I don't concern myself with it. Into the trash can it goes. Now if one comes with a broke blade, they'll replace it. We apply different standards or expectations based on price. Value is very subjective. Many CRK owners consider them a good value. I squeeze my coin a bit tighter than that. But I know that CRK stuff is pretty good.
 
One of the best values out there now are the Kizer Vanguard series. These are quality liner lock folders with VG-10 blade and G-10 scales going for $50-$90!

I have the Kizer Vanguard Gemini, Intrepid and Kyre -- the designs and f&f are simply outstanding. And not just for the price.
 
I agree that value is something that is more than a review of a product. Price comes into play and your experience with things that are priced similarly. The warranty thing is nice. Support is nice. But honestly, I have only contacted one knife manufacturer in 50 years over a possible warranty issue. That was a long time ago. I really don't care about the warranty unless the knife just falls apart with little use. Rough Riders I read have a habit of loosing a scale with use.... warranty. I don't concern myself with it. Into the trash can it goes. Now if one comes with a broke blade, they'll replace it. We apply different standards or expectations based on price. Value is very subjective. Many CRK owners consider them a good value. I squeeze my coin a bit tighter than that. But I know that CRK stuff is pretty good.

Because you don't use it doesn't mean it doesn't add value since value is subjective. That subjectiveness is why this thread is as long as it is and there are as many manufacturers as there are.
 
I also think that Spyderco s new offerings are not the value the earlier knives were in general. One example is the Stretch with g10. Yet the PM 2 remains a value, even with map, which most of us hate. Also the zdp Endura and Delica are examples of Spyderco s value tradition. Hopefully Spyderco will not trend the way of Benchmade.
 
If you can afford it, check out Pro-Tech's lineup. Fantastic quality knives.

So true SoCal!! Not only are their knives great value, their CS is fantastic!! I had a new blade put on a TR-3 and the service, and work, were excellent!
I have 4, 3 autos and a manual TR-3, all 4 are tough as nails and have held up perfectly!
Can't recommend them enough!
Joe
 
For autos, I think the Kershaw/Emerson Launch 4 at about $115.00 is a tremendous value. For comparison, when the Benchmade Spike came out in 1992 or so, THAT was $100.00 retail if memory serves. The Launch 4 is a LOT more knife. US made as the Protech knives, Emerson design, great steel in SHARP blade, very tight, fast action and superb ergos.

The Spyderco Manix 2 XL at about $125.00 street is also superb value...great ergos, steel, lock, fit and finish. It's a bit heavy, but is a true hard-use folder.

Like I said before, there are values to be had by most of the big makers, and there are also knives that many would consider to be overpriced, but if that's your thing...it is what it is.

Value could be found in the satisfaction of ownership and use, and that is something that cannot be dismissed.

I find the Sebenza to be a bit overpriced considering what it is, but that hasn't stopped me from purchasing(and enjoying the use of) a number of them over the years, and am currently using a micarta inlaid 25. It's an excellent knife, but wouldn't consider it a "value" at the retail price....if you can get a gently used one around $300.00 in good shape...would consider THAT a value.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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