BEWARE people who say the package never arrived!

Kohai999 said:
You didn't say it like that, when you originally said it. I only attack when provoked. You don't want to be attacked, mind your manners. If it is not worth YOUR time to investigate what happened to YOUR package, why is it the seller's responsibility?
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i said it exactly like that when i first said it, you probably just skimmed through my post and missed my entire point, dwelling upon my 'get bent' comment.

and no, it is not my package until it is in my hands. it is the sellers responsibility to get it there. this isnt just my personal opinion - its the law. if you as a seller are not willing to take steps to locate the package and find out what happened to it, then you are shirking your responsibility. the buyer should not have to jump through hoops for you just to get you moving to locate a package.
 
Frank-H said:
Nobody attacked you Steven. How about you back out of Anthony's legitimate thread, seems it's gotten personal for you.

Frank H.
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I, like Anthony, buy and sell knives. I have never had a problem either way on BladeForums.

Anthony posted an, IMHO, legitimate beef about someone saying that they did not get a package. He wanted some actions on the part of the "recipient" before he could/would start action on his end. Call this an "action of good faith". A few very vocal, and somewhat nasty folks started chiming in with "get bent" and similar such sentiments. Since G,B&U is an open forum, I am just exercising my right to free speech in defending Anthony's actions and sentiments, in the same way that some of the rest of you are condemning them.

Anthony did not anywhere say that he would not do nothing for the buyer. He said that he wanted the buyer to file a police report, so that this became a legitimate beef in his eyes, and not a scam.

BladeForums flourishes in an atmosphere of mutual trust and regard. Anyone that has done a deal with me knows that I am fair in my dealings.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
A few very vocal, and somewhat nasty folks started chiming in with "get bent" and similar such sentiments.
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i'm the nasty one? :rolleyes:

i presented my opinion as a buyer, since a lot of this thread is pretty biased towards the seller and we still have heard only one side of the story. you are the one resorting to childish attacks.

and yes, if a seller sent me a package and i told them it had not arrived and politely asked them to initiate some sortof search, and their reply was 'go file a police report before i do anything', i would tell them to get bent. thats not an 'attack' on anyone, im posting what my reaction would be if someone gave me that ultimatum in a feeble attempt to shirk their responsiblity as a seller.

for all you people know the buyer could be totally innocent, yet here he is being bashed and flamed to hell. DC means absolutely nothing these days, and neither does a police report. all it proves is that the buyer is willing to waste their time and jump through hoops to meet the rediculous demands of the seller. i could go file a police report tomorrow that i was abducted by aliens, it doesnt necessarily make it so.

in all of your angst you are missing the entire point of my posts. it is the sellers responsibility to track the package. i am not debating giving refunds or anything of the sort - this all depends on the circumstances of the sale and whhat the parties agreed upon beforehand. what i have been saying all along is that legally the seller is responsible for the package until it is delivered to the buyer. a DC does not constitute proof that the buyer received the package, as many others have said in this thread.

if you want to absolutely absolve yourself of any further time spent tracking things, then send everything registered mail from now on - youll have the signature of the buyer to prove that he received it. 'DC' is not registered, nor is it sufficient proof of delivery to the buyer.

and whether or not you have a clean selling record means little to me if you are under the impression that the only responsibility a seller has is to receive payment from the buyer and then send them an email that says 'your item was shipped today'. no transaction is complete until both parties are happy.
 
Mr. Blackhearted,

I think you might be missing a salient point/points.

Using USPS with confirmation, it is almost impossible for the seller to do the research you want. Although you are on point with the "right" of it (the seller does have the responsibility to research what happened), it is almost impossible for the seller to do all the work. The buyer and seller have to have some communication if any research is to be done by the seller. You see, with the Postal Service, a private person person in Florida would have an impossible time properly researching delivery issues at a post ofice in Iowa. We would not know exactly what post office does the delivery (this happens all the time...did the package go out of the main post office, the local zone or a sub-station?). We are not familiar with the local carrier, carrier schedules, etc. I have actually called the post office on some of these claims and they are the most confused bunch I have ever dealt with. It could take days of work just to find out who was actually working on a given day when the reseach is being done from out of state. Even getting the telephone number to the local post office is almost impossible. They try to direct you to a central 800 number and good luck ever getting to the local delivery post office.

Although, any plan has faults, asking for a police report is a legitimate request. You see, a certain percentage of people are lying scum bags who order things and then say they didn't get them. They do this for a living (or to supplement their miserable existance). They cannot continually contact their local police to make constant reports of their fraud. It will bring attention to them. All of our transactions were by credit card, so the individuals who commit this fraud cannot be calling the credit card company 2 X per day claiming lost mail. So, they contact the seller and hope that they get their money back. Depending on the item, the percentages of fraud are different. In the electronics business the numbers are high and in specialty scientific items, the numbers are low. That is just the way it is.

Anthony is not being disrespectful to be requesting a police report, because if the item was delivered by the post office, but is gone...stolen...is a definite possibility. It is not pleasant to have to ask a customer for a police report. We would try to communicate with the customer first and try to confirm that the post office has no further information on the item (99.9% of the time, the post office is useless....they claim if the scan is in, the item was delivered). So, it follows that if the item is gone, make the police report. The making of this police report by a legitimate person does not mean that 100% it was stolen. It appears as though a crime took place.....that is all that is required to make the report.

We had many persons who gladly made a report and we gladly refunded them or replaced their order. When you are in business, you have to put some policy in effect to discourage fraud and under some circumstances this is all you can do.
 
nick i think you may be missing my point as well.

asking someone to file a police report - based on the notion that if this person is pulling this scam frequently then they cant fill out a police report on a weekly basis or theyll put suspicion on themselves - is perfectly fine. but not at the stage anthony was asking for it.

this is the way it should happen:
1. buyer states they have not received package yet, it is long past due
2. seller initiates tracking, finds out as much as he can from his end
3. seller contacts buyer and gives them all of the info regarding shipment details, enlists buyers help to contact local post offices in buyer's town
4. if the package is still not recovered, the buyer/seller work out a resolution
5. at this point, seller can ask buyer to file a police report before they start working on a resolution.
6. once copy of police report is received, the resolution can be worked out. this could be just a simple agreement that its lost and 'it happens', a partial or full refund, or sending another product, or whatever they decide upon.

this is the way i see it happening with anthony:
1. buyer states they have not received package yet, it is long past due
2. anthony publicly calls buyer a liar, starts trashing him (and every other buyer who ever reported a package not received) in online forums, and smugly insists that he file a police report/homeowners claim because his 'responsibility as a seller was fulfilled' when he got the DC.


the second way is misguided, irresponsible, and does not fulfill the sellers legal responsibility - a DC does not equal 'proof of delivery to the customer'. i would expect more mature and responsible behavior from any seller i deal with.
 
Anthony Lombardo said:
In my neighborhood, if you call the police station they will come to your house and file a report. You can file a police report in situations like this. In fact, if I was afraid someone was stealing my mail I would damn sure be filing reports all over town.



As for my actions, I have contacted the buyers Post Office and was told the recepient needed to call in as it is in his hands.

I am waiting on that report also.

FYI, can anyone show me where I have not completed my part of the bargain? I refuse to refund the item in question because after shipping 300 items this year NONE have been missing or stolen and I need something to show me that this person is acting in good faith. Anything. Something.

I am pretty sure I will never see that report...
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The above were Anthony's statements mid posting. And yeah, you are being nasty.

STeven Garsson
 
You're baiting and namecalling Steven, let's keep this on-topic and out of the gutter.

[Edit] - 'Thanks for the edit Steven'

Frank H.
 
Did you READ what I said, did you READ what Gabriel wrote?

"this is the way i see it happening with anthony:
1. buyer states they have not received package yet, it is long past due
2. anthony publicly calls buyer a liar, starts trashing him (and every other buyer who ever reported a package not received) in online forums, and smugly insists that he file a police report/homeowners claim because his 'responsibility as a seller was fulfilled' when he got the DC.


the second way is misguided, irresponsible, and does not fulfill the sellers legal responsibility - a DC does not equal 'proof of delivery to the customer'. i would expect more mature and responsible behavior from any seller i deal with."
Is Gabriel not baiting with his choice of language? As Gabriel is not the one doing business with Anthony, he can expect whatever he wants, when it is his turn.

Since you seem to be chiming in every time I post a response to Gabriel, maybe this is getting personal for you? Did some bad man not send a package to you, and now you want some of Anthony's blood? I'm ready to let this one die from my side, any time now.
 
This post is a real eye-opener for me.
On BFC we have hundreds of transactions weekly (thousands?) between sellers and buyers and very, very few instances similar to this.
Mail very rarely gets lost. Thats a fact. 99% of the mail gets delivered in a professional, timely fashion. Whenever anyone cries that they did not recieve, who is to blame?
Usually the sender has a poorly scrawled address on the package or insufficient postage.
Sometimes the buyer is a victim of circumstance-either a bad neighborhood or a bad relative/postman.
This transaction , like many others was done in good faith on my part.
I have attempted to help the buyer find the package. The ball is now in his court.
I am interested to see the varied responses here.
Steven,
Thanks for sticking up for me. Most people have no clue the downsides of selling, only the joys of buying.

Thanks,

Anthony

FYI,
The buyer threatened me with legal action if I gave him negative feedback and that he was a real "bulldog in court".
He wasn't real happy to hear my father-in-law is an attorney and he could send all correspondence to him from now on.
What is this world coming to? :barf:
 
With all the info here, sounds like you got a real clown of a buyer Anthony, yuck, "feedback wars" as well, double yuck.

Having to deal with a clown on a small transaction especially I bet your skin was crawling. Thanks for the opportunity to learn Anthony, I'll not be trusting Delivery Confirmation again, I've shipped a lot with it and didn't realize how ineffective it really is in protecting either side.

Frank H.
 
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