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Big Knives or Handaxes?
- Thread starter adc5
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Theres a book called Woodsmanship, by Bernard R. Mason. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/downloads/pdf/woodsmanship.pdf
It was written in 1945 and describes the tools and tricks of the lumberjack trade. Lumbering was about to go high tech. Woodsmanship describes the old school, when old school logging was a living memory. It tells you about axes and misery whips, beetles and caulks.
And about trail knives. On about page 69 (There are no page numbers in the PDF. This is a guess from the TOC.) it says: The campers preference in brush cutting is the Trail Knifean oversized hunting knife with a 10 inch blade, carried at a sheath on the belt. This is really a combination of knife and hand-ax, capable of cutting brush, felling saplings up to several inches in diameter, and splitting small firewood.
I wouldnt want to build a log cabin without an axe and a saw. But for woods bumming where I needed to cut firewood, build a shelter, trim branches from a felled tree, or butcher a deer, the trail knife was my all purpose tool.
It was written in 1945 and describes the tools and tricks of the lumberjack trade. Lumbering was about to go high tech. Woodsmanship describes the old school, when old school logging was a living memory. It tells you about axes and misery whips, beetles and caulks.
And about trail knives. On about page 69 (There are no page numbers in the PDF. This is a guess from the TOC.) it says: The campers preference in brush cutting is the Trail Knifean oversized hunting knife with a 10 inch blade, carried at a sheath on the belt. This is really a combination of knife and hand-ax, capable of cutting brush, felling saplings up to several inches in diameter, and splitting small firewood.
I wouldnt want to build a log cabin without an axe and a saw. But for woods bumming where I needed to cut firewood, build a shelter, trim branches from a felled tree, or butcher a deer, the trail knife was my all purpose tool.
This is very informative; thanks.
I love big knives. I really love the look, the feel and versatility. I live in the Great Lakes region of the US. I have battled this in my head over and over again. Debating what works and what do I want to work because I like the look. So, I took a Svord Von Tempsky Bowie, a Down Under Outback Bowie, a Linder Crocodile Hunter, a Condor Hudson Bay knife, a Ontario sp10 Marine Raider Bowie and an Ontario sp51. I proceeded to chunk up a large cherry tree. I put all these knives up against a Gransfors Bruks Small Forest Axe and I will tell you that nothing came even close to the GBSFA. The ease of bucking while standing or kneeling, the deep bite with little to no binding in the wood and the efficiency were so far ahead of the large knives. I have made spoons, shelters, bow drills, cutting boards and plenty of firewood with the Bruks. However I have not done game with it, but Im sure with a little patience it can be done and perhaps mastered. I still enjoy using large knives, but when WORK needs to get done there is no equal to the axe. The half axe is easy to pack, carry and even stick between the belt and pants. The sheath fits nicely in the back pocket while the axe is in use. It can be batoned, used as a hammer and used like an ulu. It can easily be used with one hand or two. It has a 1.5lb head and handle probably weighs around .5 to .75 pounds. Not a lot of weight to carry to achieve the versatility and effiency a tool like this can give. JMHO
In the words of Dick Proenneke:
"Learn to use an axe and you cant help but love it. Abuse it....and it will open your foot like an over-cooked sausage".
In the words of Dick Proenneke:
"Learn to use an axe and you cant help but love it. Abuse it....and it will open your foot like an over-cooked sausage".
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I dont disagree with you. An axe is a wonderful tool when used well. An axe is also a wonderfully dangerous tool. The smaller the axe, the more dangerous it is. Thats why I pair a full size axe with a trail knife. Its not that the trail knife is safe. The trail knife is only less dangerous than a hatchet.
Mors Kochanski says to become a competent axe man requires a training course lasting five to ten eight-hours days. How many armchair frontiersman will sign up for that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aijEY9njOw
Thats why I flinch when a beginner asks for advice, and someone recommends a small axe. Nobody mentions safety training. That beginner risks making his toes too short or too long.
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Over 2 pounds? That's a LOT of weight if you have to carry it for any meaningful period of time. Unless that's all you're carrying I guess.
jdk1
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Almost 69 years old, and likely old wisdom at that time. Kind of helps dispell the myth of the new fangled big knife concept and indicates batonning may have been used for a while as well. Thanks for the info.
2 pounds is not a lot of weight.
Your canteen weighs that much. If your that concerned about weight than perhaps a small folding saw and a multi tool will work. Look at the weight of an rtak2, von tempsky bowie, outback bowie etc. A lot of these knives are weighing in at over 24oz!!! Its worth the weight to pack a small axe. I've hiked miles brother, doesn't bother me because it takes me two chops to drop ankle size hemlock trees and another two chops to buck it in half. In about 45 minutes I've got enough wood for a long lasting long fire. THIS IS JMHO, as everyone is different, has different gear and hikes different terrain. But a knife will not outwork an half axe in wood processing.Also, If two pounds is a lot of weight may I suggest that you never get involved in hunting. Many times in hunting it requires you to carry a 6lb shotgun (not including ammo) for hours on end covering hard terrain and you cant even process firewood with it. Physics and history tells us that an axe is what works the best in northern forests.
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Nessmuk and Kephart could have learned a lot from you.
knife36
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Found that these two Busse's(MOAB & KZ2) are the best of both worlds for me , chops very well and clears brush & smaller branches as well.
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View attachment 386763
2 pounds is not a lot of weight.
Also, If two pounds is a lot of weight may I suggest that you never get involved in hunting. Many times in hunting it requires you to carry a 6lb shotgun (not including ammo) for hours on end covering hard terrain and you cant even process firewood with it. Physics and history tells us that an axe is what works the best in northern forests.
I totally agree. The whole ultra light hiking trend has always baffled me. I grew up with hunters hunting and seeing someone be upset about a few ounces on a jacket or something never made sense. If you were trying to just cover distance I can see the advantage though.
2 pounds is not a lot of weight.
Also, If two pounds is a lot of weight may I suggest that you never get involved in hunting. Many times in hunting it requires you to carry a 6lb shotgun (not including ammo) for hours on end covering hard terrain and you cant even process firewood with it. Physics and history tells us that an axe is what works the best in northern forests.
Forget the shotgun; what about the DEER? Unless someone thinks they're getting a truck in there (never know; with the new ATV fad...) Regardless, I do a bit of backpacking now and again and the weight of a mid-size axe has never bothered me. I was just curious about the utility of a large knife.
stabman
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People talk about building log cabins out in the woods...where are the pictures of these cabins they built with an axe?
I've seen none.
All the activities I've seen any proof of on this--or any other--forum done away from home base are easily accomplished with a huge knife.
Or a stout machete.
Or an axe.
No one has said "Hey guys, lets replace the chain saws of lumberjacks with big knives! Ain't that a great idea?"
They've said "Hey, a big knife works as well as an axe for the wood processing I do out in the woods."
Which is true in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases.
I've seen none.
All the activities I've seen any proof of on this--or any other--forum done away from home base are easily accomplished with a huge knife.
Or a stout machete.
Or an axe.
No one has said "Hey guys, lets replace the chain saws of lumberjacks with big knives! Ain't that a great idea?"
They've said "Hey, a big knife works as well as an axe for the wood processing I do out in the woods."
Which is true in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases.
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It goes back farther than that. Here is the inventor of the Bowie knife. Which wasn’t intended for fighting, Rezin calls it a hunting knife. It must have functioned as a trail knife.
The first Bowie knife was made by myself in the parish of Avoyelles, in this state, (Louisiana) as a hunting knife, for which purpose, exclusively, it was used for many years. The length of the blade was nine and one-quarters inches, its width one and one-half inches, single edged and not curved. Rezin P. Bowie, Planters Advocate: August 24, 1838.
Long before that, the Hudson Bay Camp Knife served the same practical ends.
Long before that, so did the medieval hunting trousse.
Long before that, so did the Saxon's short seax.
Long before that, so did the Sami leuku.
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A knife doesnt work as well as an axe for processing wood period. Whether its one piece or fifty pieces. Im not putting down large knives. Its just the reality is they DONT process wood better than an axe. I still use a big knife on occasion, they are a great tool. The only time I disagree with people is when reality is blurred and things are said like "A large knife can process wood like an axe. A large knife can fell trees like an axe". Now, a big knife works well for processing wood. It doesnt work as well as an axe for processing wood.People talk about building log cabins out in the woods...where are the pictures of these cabins they built with an axe?
I've seen none.
All the activities I've seen any proof of on this--or any other--forum done away from home base are easily accomplished with a huge knife.
Or a stout machete.
Or an axe.
No one has said "Hey guys, lets replace the chain saws of lumberjacks with big knives! Ain't that a great idea?"
They've said "Hey, a big knife works as well as an axe for the wood processing I do out in the woods."
Which is true in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases.
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My pocket axe is lighter and easier to carry then your knife and IMO that's the most important factor on hikes. I just beat your 9 right of the starting gate.
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Depends on what you do really. For splitting a single round for kindling I've found a knife is actually better. For limbing small branches I've found a knife is better. What's best is based on circumstance. I agree with Stabman. Most of what people actually do in the woods can be handled with just about any of these tools.