Big stick or big knife?

If no firearm, and even with, a very sharp knife. Long enough to do some good stabbing, but not so overlong as to be unwieldy when something already has you down and is on top of you.

I don't think that this is macho bunk. I think it is a realistic estimate of what will happen when you walk past the wrong ambush predator.

Which is why I now backpack with my Cold Steel Master Hunter, even when not hunting.
 
Not to sound like an a$$ here but have you seen a grizzly in the wild?
If a griz decides to attack a stick will be useless, even a solid blow won't slow it down and you would be on the ground in seconds.
A knife isn't much better however about 12 years ago a guy here in BC killed a grizzly with his hunting knife when he was attacked while putting his boots on (he just crossed a stream)
Both sticks and knives have been used here in BC to fight off cougar attacks, generally the sticks were used when attacking a cougar that was attacking someone else. The knives were used by people being attacked.
 
Why not carry both and have the best of both? I live in the middle of bear and mountain lion country here in the Colorado mountains and regulary go hiking, camping and backpacking with my girlfriend. We both carry at least a 3.5 inch blade one hand folder (Gerber EZ Out) and aluminum walking poles with steel tips (used as snowshoe poles in the winter).

I have started to accumulate a nice collection of fixed blades, so I usually have one on me as well. My fixed blades run from 4" to 7", though I also have a Cold Steel Kukri Machete which has a 13" blade! I've started carrying the Kukri recently instead of my Buck hatchet as it outchops my Buck for the same weight yet I can swing it much faster if needed for defense. The Kukri machete has such a devastating cutting blow and reach that I actually feel it would have serious stopping ability should I ever have to engage a mountain lion with it, yet it is still small enough for close quarters.

All conversations aside about sticks and knives, bear spray is far and away the best defense against lions, dogs, and bears if you aren't jumped from behind (then the knife comes into play). US Fish and Wildlife did a study that found bear spray to be the most effective way of stopping a grizzly or black bear attack even compared to a powerful firearm.

US Fish & Wildlife Service- Bear Spray vs Bullets
 
I got attacked by a pack of dogs ( about 6) in the Philippines in '94. If it wasn't for the big stick I was carrying , I would have been toast. A knife would have been useless , unless one got close and I got in vital hit. A stick was able to keep the distance between them and me. I severly injured two , and the others got distracted. That is how I got away.
 
Big stick.
I used to live on a mountainside that I had to walk down and up to go to and from school.
There were a few rather aggressive dogs that a baseball bat was effective at establishing a little respect for my space.
Dogs reflexes are typically faster than humans and the reach of a big stick is a game changer.
I would have been bitten for sure if I'd only had a knife.

Those who live by the fist shall die by the dagger.
Those who live by the dagger shall die by the sword.
Those who live by the sword shall die by the bow.
Etc...
 
Tomahawk-combine the big stick and the big gun. Good for ranged, hand to hand and grappling combat and has alot of other trail uses too, mainly processing wood. If I had to use a primative tool when attacked by a dangerous animal, it'd definately be a good tomahawk.
 
Since you're asking the Community at large "our" opinion, based on whatever we use to come to it, i would choose (and do) a large, fixed-blade knife strictly for the purpose of self-defense.

If i'm backpacking or even hiking, i usually have trekking poles with me and now i'll also have my Trailmaster. I've always carried along my glacier axe (got strange looks in summer time), but the TM may change that. I'm undecided, but will probably keep the axe with me (it has a super-sharp end pick that will penetrate boiler-plate ice and likely dog/wolf/cat-flesh as well).

My reason for the large fixed-blade is that i don't need a perfect heart-shot stab placement - *any* stab is going to be big and potentially fatal!!! I can slash with it as well and again, it's going to be big and nasty - imagine part of one of the canines snoot being lopped off.... With an entire pack of feral dogs more than just the right weapon is needed to survive and i'm thankful our colleague Hiwa made it out alive. There, and improvised weapon saved the day and there are many usually available.
 
WVHILLS said:
The thread about cougar vs. dog got me thinking. I personally wouldn't want to leave my dog behind and I know that many others around the forum wouldn't either. So if it were you and your dog out on a hike and you were confronted by a cougar, pack of wild dogs or worst case scenario a mother grizz or black bear, would you want a large knife or a sturdy walking staff to defend you AND your dog? Sorry guns not an option:D
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if guns are not an option, I'd not go.
 


I'm about the biggest meanest thing in my local woods.




On the trail with my pair of hundred pound dogs we have a good system,

...they are the long range eyes and ears, and let me know of thing I may have missed.

A staff is aways my first line of defense, backed up by a big blade and finally a smaller blade.


I will carry a firearm in areas where it's prudent.




Big Mike
 
The Chef said:
Watch a show called Maneaters on the history channel, very informative special, the resident guide was saying that the only people who make it out of a lion attack are those who have knives in hand before the attack. Sticks weren't mentioned. I would tend to agree with that fella.
Click to expand...
Interesting story about lion attack survival
http://www.kimwolhuter.com/harry.htm

Then i could go behind Mike,just in case ;)

NW067pec1.jpg
 
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Stick vs dog/dogs = maybe

Stick vs cougar/bear = useless

I've heard several accounts of cougar attacks, where the animal ambushes someone right in front of another person. The other person tries beating the animal with a walking stick until the stick breaks, then stabbing it with the broken end of the stick, all to no avail. Useless. But others have successfully killed both cougars and even bears with nothing more than a small knife.

If I see the threat coming I'm reaching for this first, if it's not already in my hands...
various2008-2009207.jpg


Not as usefull if the animal gets on top of me though, so in that case I'd probably reach for one of these, or one of the like that I useually have on me...
various2008-2009158.jpg


If that's not working, I almost always have a smaller knife too that I could grab for as well.

...And like others have said already, guns are geat, but it's not an option that is available to everyone.:)
 
being that this would be in the woods, a bow staff would do no/little good because of the close quarters...I would go with a knife or two...

btw rinos, your link does not work
 
Hiwa- thanks for your first hand knowledge of the subject- You'll have to tell me more next time we get together.

From my experience being a cripple the last couple of years I'd have to go with the staff by far. My personal one is a Crawford Survival Staff (red of course) with custom shepherds hook that I've shown here a time or two. I travelled with my survival staff 24/7 until this past fall as I could not walk well. During my recovery phase I fell a number of times (ice, legs gave out ...) and not once did I let go of the staff. Mine is ~5' 9" tall, and was very manouverable when I was on the ground. The staff will be ready, my knife will not, and even if it were I cannot guarantee that I could access it (the cat example would most likely have me on my face, thus with limited mobility to get to the knife that I carry- usually slightly front carry or horizontal in the front). My staff is made of aircraft aluminum and as such is very hardy for impacts (there is even a striking head specifically for this). I have more than once carried it ready as a spear with the blade replacing the hook. When I was in Jujitsu before my accident we would try stress drawing of the knife and I would not trust that being my main line of defense as I often bungled the draw, would have sliced myself badly.

My injury also brought lack of mobility into play in my mind. What do you carry that would hinder/ help you in an attack? A backpack may prevent a cougar from latching on well, but how will the straps/ bulk of the load/ being tossed about by the arm straps affect your defense? Running from the bear with a full load? Using the backpack as a distraction/ fistload/ shield? I've trained close combat use of a staff (sweeps, grappling, locks), and feel that I know the limitations and strengths of my choice, with the caveat that I would of course choose to also have a knife ready (no guns as I am Canadian so my rifle comes out only during hunting season).

The closest I've come to this situation is a man was killed by a bear 1/2 mile away from me on another mountain trail about 4 years ago. That day I was watching out for that situation- looking at cliff faces for signs before going under them or moving to the side of the trial away from the cliff. Making noise, watching for blind spots, looking for rocks to collect and throw if I had time; I knew the risks and was ready to face them. That day I carried my staff with spear/knife attached, along with a poor man's waved Boye folder and was quite comfortable that I would return home. If the bear attacked me my wife may have given birth without a dad, but I am sure that I would have fared better than the slain runner who was supplied with nothing and had both ears filled with music (I have no problem with music in the woods but keep it low and only in one ear if hiking IMO).

Another way I looked at it was- if you were surrounded by attacking 2 legged animals in the urban jungle- would you prefer a staff or single knife?- they are still animals after all.


OF course this is just my opinion online and I don't expect anybody to believe my tales so take it as you may.
 
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GingivitisKahn said:
I call bull on any government study that claims bear spray is more (or even as) effective as a powerful firearm. No offense to you, of course but lol - no way.
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Ging, there have been numerous studies into this, both public and private, all affirming bear spray. You might want to check around and call your local ranger station and ask them for their opinion as well. Up in here in CO the rangers use bear spray over a gun as the first option.
 
I think I'll take the knife.... and then make the stick.

But it's still likely I will have other options available.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Another way I looked at it was- if you were surrounded by attacking 2 legged animals in the urban jungle- would you prefer a staff or single knife?- they are still animals after all.

.
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I would still definately take the knife. :thumbup:

I've seen two guys go at it, one was unarmed, one had a bat, the guy with the bat got his butt handed to him.

I have personally been assulted twice (on two seperate occasions, not two guys at the same time) by club weilding A-holes. One had a police batton, one had a large stick. On each occasion they both lost, and we all walked away from the fight with minor injurys. Had either of them chose to use a good knife, I would probably not be here now.

In my limited experience the biggest problems with a cudgel are:

1 - you need room to swing it. once an opponent gets in close its pretty much useless.

2 - you can grab a club directly and wrestle it away from an opponent.

3 - in "most" cases you really have to connect solidly with a hard part of your oponents body like the head or other vulnerable spot to really incapacitate them. -And if you are facing something like a large cat or bear, good luck hurting one of those beasts.

-at least that's how it's been in my observations and experiences. :)
 
coloradowildman said:
Ging, there have been numerous studies into this, both public and private, all affirming bear spray. You might want to check around and call your local ranger station and ask them for their opinion as well. Up in here in CO the rangers use bear spray over a gun as the first option.
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Again - I'm not having a go at you, but I'm not buying it.
Bear spray + annoyed animal = *probable* fleeing animal.
Large caliber bullet + annoyed animal = dead animal (assuming the shooter can shoot).

Anyway, that's probably straying a bit from the post. As a bowhunter, I regularly perforate meaty animals with sticks that have blades attached - do I win the compromiser award? :D
 
coloradowildman said:
Why not carry both and have the best of both?
...
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Carry both and more: small 5", stout, fixed blade.
Only with a very extreme backpack load would this be a burden.
I carry a walking stick and 5-6" knife, in any case, nothing to do with animal protection.

coloradowildman said:
The Kukri machete has such a devastating cutting blow and reach that I actually feel it would have serious stopping ability should I ever ha" ve to engage a mountain lion with it, yet it is still small enough for close quarters.
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As to 12" and greater being too big for close quarters: mostly true for getting them out of
the scabbard. From there on, you could use two hands to good effect. Go to a SE asian
stick/blade fighting guy, and ask him to demo: using your own body parts as a fulcrum
and pivot point for your weapon. (body parts= head, forearm, hip, etc.)

A bent blade provides advantages and disadvantages. A kukri is very vulnerable to being twisted out of your hand. Any "bent" blade makes you vulnerable in this way.

coloradowildman said:
bear spray is far and away the best defense against lions, dogs, ...US Fish and Wildlife did a study that found bear spray to be the most effective way of stopping a grizzly or black bear attack even compared to a powerful firearm.
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I do not like to "pile on" but really there are so many biased studies being done;
do you really trust the USFW? I do not. The high up bosses in any agency or
eco group can control the parameters of the study.
For example, Wolf attacks on humans, can be counted only if you can show the wolf
was not rabid. WTHeck? Or, they say the wolf would not have attacked if you did not
have dogs with you.

Still, I would consider bear spray as an option, and I may get some.
 
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