BK12, Is it really better steel?

Bladite said:
did you break your knife? not yet? the order of the day is "chill out"
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The legal speak worded into that warranty is pretty unacceptable for a company that makes survival knives. If youre cool thats great. Im allowed to call that out as lame. I have multiple Ka Bars. I was taken aback when I saw that.

When I read an OP like this Im allowed to offer an opinion based on what I think.

Rebel Nimrod said:
i see reviewers saying the Ritter BK12 is more premium than the KA-BAR Becker knives and the steel is tougher and holds an edge better. Is it really? I don’t own a 12, but I would think the addition of Vanadium and Cromium to the alloy in the Ka-bar would make a better steel than the simple 1095 of the Essee. KA-BAR heat treat seems pretty darn good, is Rowen’s that much better that 1095 would exceed the CroVan in blade quality? Has anyone done a side by side comparison of edge retention? It seemed very subjective by the reviewers I have seen make the claim. We need a myth buster to get to the bottom of
this!!
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I dont have blind, unwavering support of whatever I see a company do.

So in response to the OP I was saying that instead of focusing on minor differences in steel with regards to toughness and heat treat that a bigger difference is this:

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Glad I was able to clear that up for you.
 
I’ve never broken a Becker, some have and from what I hear they are generous with repair/replacement.
Essee’s Warranty sure inspires confidence in their products! Both are good companies I would say
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
The legal speak worded into that warranty is pretty unacceptable for a company that makes survival knives. If youre cool thats great. Im allowed to call that out as lame. I have multiple Ka Bars. I was taken aback when I saw that.

When I read an OP like this Im allowed to offer an opinion based on what I think.



I dont have blind, unwavering support of whatever I see a company do.

So in response to the OP I was saying that instead of focusing on minor differences in steel with regards to toughness and heat treat that a bigger difference is this:

07cWAYQ.png


rHK5dXD.png


Glad I was able to clear that up for you.
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I think you will find this lot here to be less than fanboy-ish and I've never once run into a discussion where it hasn't been told like it is. Honesty and integrity are paramount here and throughout the forums in general so I don't think you will find us singing praises that lack any semblance of merit.

That being said, my previous comments to you still stand. If you read throughout this sub and the Ka-Bar sub, you will find countless examples of Ka-Bar's warranty being brought to bear when needed and the results are generally favorable. The man himself (Ethan Becker), even intercedes on the behalf of his fans and customers when needed and the resolution is rather noteworthy, in a good way.

I understand your misgivings on the warranty and the language therein, it certainly could give one pause when purchasing a knife one expects to use hard. That being said, I suspect that being a large production level company, Ka-Bar implements language that protects them from unnecessary loss and liability when dumb people do dumb things with their knives.

Which is pretty much the gist of it: Use your knife like a knife and if if it fails in its duties as a knife, Ka-Bar has assured us they will take care you. And they will generally go above and beyond to ensure that their customer's are taken care of, even when the warranty explicitly states, don't baton with your knife... Ka-Bar is terrific company and Mr. Ethan is among the very best of men. This is just plain fact, not fanboyish speculation.
 
I believe the phrase that most applies to the Becker knives in that warranty statement is "for any heavy use for which the knife was not designed".

Kabar makes such a large range of knives (folders, kitchen knives, machetes, etc), that I believe their warranty verbage is specifically vague, to keep them from contractually having to replace things that were intentionally broken or abused ( folding knives broken while battoning, etc).

Almost every Becker knife is designed for heavy use like battoning and chopping. Perhaps that is why their warranty support has been so good in the times I've seen it uses here on the forums.


Anecdotally, I've not yet seen a post on the forums where a kabar (not just Becker) knife was damaged, and not covered under warranty. I'm sure it happens, I just haven't happened to see it yet.
 
ocnLogan said:
I believe the phrase that most applies to the Becker knives in that warranty statement is "for any heavy use for which the knife was not designed".

Kabar makes such a large range of knives (folders, kitchen knives, machetes, etc), that I believe their warranty verbage is specifically vague, to keep them from contractually having to replace things that were intentionally broken or abused ( folding knives broken while battoning, etc).

Almost every Becker knife is designed for heavy use like battoning and chopping. Perhaps that is why their warranty support has been so good in the times I've seen it uses here on the forums.


Anecdotally, I've not yet seen a post on the forums where a kabar (not just Becker) knife was damaged, and not covered under warranty. I'm sure it happens, I just haven't happened to see it yet.
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what you said. as the quote says: Becker Knives "Work for a living".

there have been a few times the warranty was not honored. when it was clear the knife was seriously, deliberately abused and/or tested beyond reasonable limits, in particular, in the attempt to get a freebie.

there have also been times when imho the warranty should have been voided, but KaBar and/or Ethan himself stepped up and took care of it.

as well, there have been times when getting the warranty to the customer was extraordinary and went beyond the call of duty.

good stuff...
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
...
When I read an OP like this Im allowed to offer an opinion based on what I think....
...
Glad I was able to clear that up for you.
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absolutely. glad to hear it. be polite in our parlour, express your grievances in clear and even tones, don't be a tool, and life is good :D

keeping in mind that some of us have over 3 decades experience with Becker knife, and the overall quality, and how the warranties have worked out for all the companies and individuals involved, and i'd say we are pretty clear on what's what.
 
Jonny Jonny Jonny, you trying to get KICK banned? lol.
 
sassing the mods... crossing a line.

dear gentry, we mourn the passing of Jonny :D

round housed by Chuck
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
Cool, I mean no I havent really read a ton in this forum yet
...
So Kabar is producing these knives. I dont really know if they were collaborations or if he designed them and said here make these. My friends that were in the Marines were like what are these? I think I noticed the knives around like 2010 or so I have no idea when they actually came out or how old the designs are or arent. Those guys got out of the service in like 2009 I think.

So is the Becker line unofficially separate from the Kabar standard line, like the mk2 style knife? Is Ethan part of Ka Bar now or was he contracted as a designer or consultant?
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so, educational moment time :D good.

Ethan is the sole designer of his line up. he basically had a few early hitters. they had names, not numbers. Machax. Campanion. his stuff, 100%. other factors were employed to make them, "for the most part". then we had the Magnum Camp - a Fisk collaboration. others followed. Notably the Reinhardt. via "the Hank". TacTuls. good times. it would behoove you to find the oldest posts, or read the "becker database". none the less, this stuff was FIRMLY established before Camillus. that's where the numbers happened. a shame really. new models. new stuff. eh. after Camilllus, KaBar became a partner. Ethan is still the designer. he owns the patterns because he bought them back after Camillus. KaBar is a valued partner in production. THIS forum is Ethan's. period :D there's also a KaBar forum. they overlap, but imho, having helped start THIS forum, sepearate. unless Ethan says so.

time wise? late 80s Ethan's knives were on the scene. if your military buds don't know their knives? i can't help them. is what is. lots of Beckers have deployed.

Ethan Becker. he is the knife, the knife is him. that's about it.

also, his family is also "the joy of cooking" cookbooks. cmi. so many things. busy guy, busy family.
 
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the BK12...

Ethan owns all rights to that handle design. period.

Doug Ritter is his good friend and buddy and partner in crime.

Doug makes knives. like Ethan's handle. Ethan said hell yes. win win.

that about covers it.

well, no. it's not the BK12. that's super cool honorary.

i hate numbers.

it's the Perseverance. it's Doug's knife. with Ethan' handles. true wuv.
 
After reading your posts above Bladite, what was the name of the bk9? Besides the king of course...:)

I have a RK, Machax, Camp Magnum, Companion, King, Tweener 15 and Tweener 16!
 
91bravo said:
After reading your posts above Bladite, what was the name of the bk9? Besides the king of course...:)

I have a RK, Machax, Camp Magnum, Companion, King, Tweener 15 and Tweener 16!
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BK9 Combat Bowie.. That's Magnum Camp, and Campanion. The tweeners are called shorts.
 
91bravo said:
After reading your posts above Bladite, what was the name of the bk9? Besides the king of course...:)

I have a RK, Machax, Camp Magnum, Companion, King, Tweener 15 and Tweener 16!
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CAMPanion ;) Magnum ;)

"the king" is a nickname: "combat bowie" is more descriptive of what it is.

same for tweener. not official ;) nothing after Blackjack was named, and the numbering doesn't represent the actual design order (but you probably know that) ;)
 
Thanks for the clarification yall! I love my short 15. It's seen the most use of my Beckers this week, mostly for food prep though.

Reinhardt, Combat Bowie, Magnum Camp, Campanion, Machax, Short 15 and Short 16!
 
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