BK20- Speculation on the 450 units

Ethan Becker said:
I for one will be pushing the powers that be to make more...... Probably a lost cause.... If they do make more blame me not them...... Look guys you first responders got a hell of a lot of cutlery for two hundred bucks...... I repeat, the BK20 should be MSRP at about two hundred. ......So you got two great knives for damn close to free...... You guys got the good deal on the front end......., I get to pay retail on this one and I am damned happy to get the extra steel "FREE"......

E

P.s...... I beg to point out that the Hoonglas thing which I regard as a fine blade, by the way, which has far less complexity has a full bore retail of over three hundred smackaroonies......
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I hope they do listen. And, I for one will blame no one. I am just glad you keep making fine blades Mr. Becker:thumbup:

I agree this is a good deal but, with the limited numbers I might miss out, which is unfortunate, because it is bad timing for me to get one now(I just got a BK21 two days ago and ordered TKC scales and custom kydex for it). Another great knife by the way:thumbup:. Thanks again Mr. Becker and keep up the good work.

As for the Hoonglas, I dont think it is really a good comparison because Rowen makes a quite a bit nicer knife then Kabar(in fit and finish for sure imo). It also has a much more durable coating, standard Micarta scales, and a far superior sheath system. All of which greatly increase the cost/value.
 
NCSlice said:
If it such big demand... Why aren't they sold out already?

Wise decision I say. Maybe another sprint run, maybe not...either way, I suspect this will never be a production Blade and only ever available direct...no dealers. Only time will tell, I'd love to see thousands of people with them , Ethan earned it and deserves royalties. But, if these are still available now, then what does that say? And...why does free stuff stop people from buying it? If anyone thinks it will ever be cheaper, they're missing out. It won't...
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My guess is because most people(non-Beckerheads and forum users) dont know about them although I doubt they will take long to sell out. If they were advertised at all the knife stores I think they would have really sold out fast.
 
The "Free stuff" is stopping people (keep in mind this is my thought about whats happening and am only guessing at whats caused it.) because they are assuming that the free stuff isnt really free. They are looking at the three knives and saying "Well hell, if they didnt have the extra two knives I could get that beautiful BK 20 for a hundred bucks or so" They are wrong, but its easy to understand why they are thinking that way. When you look at MSRP and what a blade actually sells for from dealers its a pretty big difference, so they are thinking that if these were dealer offered they could get them for much less than the 200 bucks. Its a view that doesnt have a great understanding of how Ka-Bar is currently looking to do business. Direct from the company has always been more expensive, and with them only making 450, they werent looking to send it out to dealers, so the price is what the price is. Frustrating ? Maybe, but understandable, and the two extra knives (I would bet) were added to the deal to take some of the sting off the blade only being sold for MSRP. Keep in mind, thats just my two cents, and might be worth less than two actual cents. YMMV.
 
Hey Tachead.....

Try the Hoonglas and a BK20 Bundok Bowie side by side please...... Nothing wrong with ESSE and Shon makes a lovely blade but, try both... It is the only way you will really know.....

All best ...

Ethan

By the way if you live nearby I encourage you to wander by..... I have both and a crud load of stuff to cut....
Please call first..... I will be happy to throw in a cuppa or a brew....e
 
Tachead7075 said:
I agree. I dont really get why they made this knife a limited run really. They should have just made the box set a limited run imo. I think they will regret this decision when they see the demand for this knife. I bet they could have sold A LOT more then 450 of these. It should be part of their regular production imo. I bet it might have outsold the BK9 and some of their other models going forward really. O well, it is what it is. Maybe Mr. Becker could have Rowen make a batch of variants of this design like he did with the RSK MK2. I would rather one made by Rowen personally anyway as they make a superior knife to Kabar imo.
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Now theres a solution! More get made and everyone keeps their promises!
 
Silverthorn said:
The "Free stuff" is stopping people (keep in mind this is my thought about whats happening and am only guessing at whats caused it.) because they are assuming that the free stuff isnt really free. They are looking at the three knives and saying "Well hell, if they didnt have the extra two knives I could get that beautiful BK 20 for a hundred bucks or so" They are wrong, but its easy to understand why they are thinking that way. When you look at MSRP and what a blade actually sells for from dealers its a pretty big difference, so they are thinking that if these were dealer offered they could get them for much less than the 200 bucks. Its a view that doesnt have a great understanding of how Ka-Bar is currently looking to do business. Direct from the company has always been more expensive, and with them only making 450, they werent looking to send it out to dealers, so the price is what the price is. Frustrating ? Maybe, but understandable, and the two extra knives (I would bet) were added to the deal to take some of the sting off the blade only being sold for MSRP. Keep in mind, thats just my two cents, and might be worth less than two actual cents. YMMV.
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I have to say that MSRP or Retail, the BK20 isnt worth $200 by it self. It would have to be sold for the same price or a bit less then the BK21($140ish retail) to be fair imo. It is almost the same amount of steel as the 21 and is probably slightly easier to manufacture. You can get a Hoonglas(just to use Mr. Beckers example) for around $150 and it comes with micarta scales, a much better custom kydex sheath, a more durable blade coating, and a better fit and finish. You can also get a Tops Power eagle for like $170 so, I really dont think the BK21 would sell well or be competitive at $200. It is a $120-140 knife imo.
 
Tachead7075 said:
As for the Hoonglas, I dont think it is really a good comparison because Rowen makes a quite a bit nicer knife then Kabar(in fit and finish for sure imo). It also has a much more durable coating, standard Micarta scales, and a far superior sheath system. All of which greatly increase the cost/value.
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I disagree with that sentiment, I've held and played with the 3, 4, 6, and Hoonglas, they don't stand out over the BK2, 7, or 9 in any way other than materials cost. Sure, Micarta costs more than Grivory, but I don't think the Beckers need Micarta, and the sheaths are probably only a few dollars more per piece to make. Their performance is just about identical, and the handles on the stock Beckers are more comfortable even without the Micarta, leaving just the name that you're paying for. I personally think the Beckers are better value per dollar, which is why I own a lot of Beckers and none of the others.

To each their own.
 
I just received mine. After opening all 3 I just sat there thinking. This offering by Kabar (via Ethan) I believe was intended to to be a gift of appreciation to loyal Becker knife fans. Just think of the effort that went into designing and manufacturing a very small run of these AND throwing in the 4&5. No rational businessman would have chosen to pursue that path at those volumes. I can't imagine it was released for that reason.

If for some reason more are made, then more people get to enjoy what I think will prove to be a fantastic design.

PS. To maintain the integrity of,the release, a clear coat zombie green handled bk30 would rock!
 
KingMC said:
I disagree with that sentiment, I've held and played with the 3, 4, 6, and Hoonglas, they don't stand out over the BK2, 7, or 9 in any way other than materials cost. Sure, Micarta costs more than Grivory, but I don't think the Beckers need Micarta, and the sheaths are probably only a few dollars more per piece to make. Their performance is just about identical, and the handles on the stock Beckers are more comfortable even without the Micarta, leaving just the name that you're paying for. I personally think the Beckers are better value per dollar, which is why I own a lot of Beckers and none of the others.

To each their own.
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I have esees and beckers.. The esses are slightly.. If i had italics on my phone i would use them.. SLIGHTLY better quality in manufacturing and the micarta and kydex is a plus, the fit and finish is better but if you cant afford to pay that much more for that minute of a difference in quality, which most people cant, go with the becker. Hands down best value and it will do anything an esee will
 
Tachead,

The MSRP on the 21 on Ka-Bars site is 200+ and people buy it from them at that price. Not a ton of people compared to the 135ish you can get them for elsewhere, but people pay it.
What I was saying is that Ka-Bar only sells from their facility AT Msrp and that the two additional knives were likely thrown in to mitigate the difference between msrp and what "Dealer price" would have been if they had sent these out to dealers.
At the end of the day its worth what people will pay. If 450 people pay 200 bucks for the package and Kabar would have had to sell the BK-20 to dealers for 100 ish so they could sell it for 135ish, then its like they sold 900 knives instead of 450. Plus they got rid of some slower moving stock that was discontinued as an incentive to buy into the 20. Its not dumb by any stretch of the imagination, and if it works its probably going to happen again with some other special runs. I for one would pay the 200 bucks for the package if I hadnt just moved twice in six months. Hell I am still considering it even being broke...lol
 
I saw a few people that were disappointed that KaBar did this package deal... almost like they were trying to pull something sneaky by pricing these knives like this. My take on the package deal is this... Kabar is a great company that takes care of it's customers very well but they are still trying to make money. If they need to move discontinued models (4,5), what better way to get rid of them than to bundle them with the new "must have" blade. I think if it wasn't priced so well, maybe that move would have been a little shady. But IMHO it is a awesome deal. Pretty soon the BK4 and BK5 are going to be gone and their prices will go up. If anyone has tried to buy a BK15 lately can attest to this. I see both sides but for me it was a no-brainer... I needed them all!
 
KingMC said:
I disagree with that sentiment, I've held and played with the 3, 4, 6, and Hoonglas, they don't stand out over the BK2, 7, or 9 in any way other than materials cost. Sure, Micarta costs more than Grivory, but I don't think the Beckers need Micarta, and the sheaths are probably only a few dollars more per piece to make. Their performance is just about identical, and the handles on the stock Beckers are more comfortable even without the Micarta, leaving just the name that you're paying for. I personally think the Beckers are better value per dollar, which is why I own a lot of Beckers and none of the others.

To each their own.
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This...

I never get this argument. It's better because it comes with stuff you can buy aftermarket!? Ok...I'd rather pick scales and sheath of my choice than take what's given. Or even choose not to. Coating is irrelevant. What's fit and finish on a beautiful beaten Blade? That all goes out the door. The meat is that steel sandwiched between the scales, as far as I'm concerned Becker is superior.
 
Ethan Becker said:
Hey Tachead.....

Try the Hoonglas and a BK20 Bundok Bowie side by side please...... Nothing wrong with ESSE and Shon makes a lovely blade but, try both... It is the only way you will really know.....

All best ...

Ethan

By the way if you live nearby I encourage you to wander by..... I have both and a crud load of stuff to cut....
Please call first..... I will be happy to throw in a cuppa or a brew....e
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O, I have no doubt the BK21 will outperform the Hoonglas in many aspects. It is not a great chopper, I know that. They are very different knives. I speak mainly of quality and value not design or performance though. I have owned and used knives made by both companies(not these two however) and definitely think Shon makes a nicer knife then Kabar from a purely manufacturing, QC/QA, and fit in finish perspective. The Kabars are still nice however but, I have yet to get one with a uniform final grind or without some kind of minor flaw. All of the Rowen blades I have received have been near flawless in contrast. I attribute this to Shon's company being smaller allowing him to have tighter control over production as well as his reputation of being a stickler for quality with every blade that leaves his shop. I have been meaning to try your Doug Ritter collab for this reason(MSK MK2). I bet its a beautiful blade. One thing is for sure though, I really like your designs sir and will continue to buy them no matter who does the manufacturing/production.

Thank you very much for your kind offer sir:thumbup:. I would love to take you up on it but, unfortunately I live very far from you up in Canada:(
 
I do agree guys that $200 for the package is a good deal. I was simply saying that $200 for just the BK20 would not be a good deal imo.
 
NCSlice said:
This...

I never get this argument. It's better because it comes with stuff you can buy aftermarket!? Ok...I'd rather pick scales and sheath of my choice than take what's given. Or even choose not to. Coating is irrelevant. What's fit and finish on a beautiful beaten Blade? That all goes out the door. The meat is that steel sandwiched between the scales, as far as I'm concerned Becker is superior.
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I agree, I would rather pick my own accessories as well(I would like most knives to come with nice Kydex/Boltron cases though however). Coating is not irrelevant. If you dont want to strip it then a more durable coating is more desirable. Fit and finish is still important to me anyway. Uneven swedges or other grind lines takes away from the beauty of the blade whether or not it will be beaten on. Also, having to resharpen a brand new blade because it came from the factory with a poor final grind is annoying and wastes steel that I would rather waste beating on it lol. Both of these issues are common on Kabars from my experience and not so common on Rowen made blades. As for the steel itself, I think they are pretty comparable.

I like Kabars and I like Rowen made blades but, I personally would take a Rowen made blade for these reasons if given the choice. As I said though, I really like Mr. Beckers designs so I will buy them no matter who produces them:thumbup:
 
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I am glad I got mine, I do think the guy manning social media on Facebook should be so adamant. Never say never!
 
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Ethan Becker said:
Try both
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No need. I would definitely buy the BK20 over the Hoonglas. I like its design much better even without trying the BK20 yet. I am sure it would outperform it in many ways too. I was more speaking of the manufactures in general not just about these particular models. I have to be honest, I buy these knives because of you and your designs Mr. Becker. You design some great blades sir and your scale/handle design is outstanding. Not to mention you are quite a stand up guy and a valued member of the knife industry/community. But, I dont know if would ever buy another Kabar if they didnt make your knives. I just havent had good luck with them so far. Even my new BK21(which is awesome by the way) has to go back because the final grind is so poor and uneven(this isnt the first issue I have had either although I will admit I am a bit picky due to me being a tradesman myself). Luckily I got it from an easy to deal with distributor so the replacement is already in the mail. At least Kabar offers a good warranty and backs their products. It is also comforting to know that you are here to help as well. Sorry to be negative. I just wanted you to know where I am coming from.
 
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Tachead7075 said:
I agree, I would rather pick my own accessories as well(I would like most knives to come with nice Kydex/Boltron cases though however). Coating is not irrelevant. If you dont want to strip it then a more durable coating is more desirable. Fit and finish is still important to me anyway. Uneven swedges or other grind lines takes away from the beauty of the blade whether or not it will be beaten on. Also, having to resharpen a brand new blade because it came from the factory with a poor final grind is annoying and wastes steel that I would rather waste beating on it lol. Both of these issues are common on Kabars from my experience and not so common on Rowen made blades. As for the steel itself, I think they are pretty comparable.

I like Kabars and I like Rowen made blades but, I personally would take a Rowen made blade for these reasons if given the choice. As I said though, I really like Mr. Beckers designs so I will buy them no matter who produces them:thumbup:
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I have the 20, and the Junglas. I've used both. Had the pleasure of using the 20 side by side with E. I assure you, by experience alone, that the 20 out performs the Junglas in every facet of use. The Junglas was designed to do one thing, cut down cocain plants. It does chop well, BUT the 20 chops way better. Its balance is way better, too. It will also carve circles around the Junglas all day long. ESEEs are not what they're cracked up to be. I find that use is far more valuable than fit and finish. It's all in the geometry, and balance. Beckers have it, and ESEEs not so much. Do like E said, and try them both for yourself. If you don't like the 20 I will buy it from you.
 
CM_Rick said:
I have the 20, and the Junglas. I've used both. Had the pleasure of using the 20 side by side with E. I assure you, by experience alone, that the 20 out performs the Junglas in every facet of use. The Junglas was designed to do one thing, cut down cocain plants. It does chop well, BUT the 20 chops way better. Its balance is way better, too. It will also carve circles around the Junglas all day long. ESEEs are not what they're cracked up to be. I find that use is far more valuable than fit and finish. It's all in the geometry, and balance. Beckers have it, and ESEEs not so much. Do like E said, and try them both for yourself. If you don't like the 20 I will buy it from you.
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Read above post^
 
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