"Black Box" Winchesters

The only one I have is an '89 sowbelly I picked up just last month. Nice knife.

WBBsb3_zps2bbfca7d.jpg
 
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I picked up a BB Winchester stockman cheap because of a crack in the pile side bone. Fixed it with a little thin CA and no problem. Sweet knife, I love it!
 
Duncan, I always thought the BB Winchesters were made with 1095 carbon, not D2.
I don't believe even Queen used D2 before the mid-90s.
 
Hi Jeff, and you are correct, I assumed that being Queen = D2, but they didnt start using until 2002?

I have even quoted in the past of the Black Box Winchester series being 1095 ( I have just been researching-found me in there as well :o).

I am trying to find an excuse....umm



ummm..


nup!...cant find one :)

Thanks Jeff :thumbup:
 
After touching up all three blades of my sowbelly, I think this 1095 is a little softer than GEC's is, so probably in the 56-57 range. Just my experience, no data to back this up. Closer to Case CV than GEC 1095 for hardness and ease of sharpening.
 
I have been carrying this since I got it months ago. It was brand new in the box when I got it, and I just could not bring myself to make it a safe queen. It has the most gorgeous stag I have ever seen. I have since sharpened it, and use it all the time. It now has a proud patina and is my current all-time favorite knife. It was dull out of the box, and had some blade wobble which I fixed with a vise. It feels perfect in my hand, and I now ignore all my other knives.

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Man that's nice! I like the way you say you couldn't make it a safe Queen, I would have been the other way - its almost too nice to use!
heres my black boxes...they are well made knives for sure



 
Someone asked to see the Winchester "Black Box" knives in one post. Well, here they are...

jCV2YOH.jpg


That's probably not what you had in mind :D sooooooooooo...


I made this chart for those who are interested in collecting Winchester "Black Box" knives. These are the ones that came out from 1987 to 1991.

LnqWT08.jpg


1 BLADE
1901 - 4 inches - Clip (1987)
1920 - 5 1/4 inches - Clip (1990)
1924 - 4 1/4 inches - Clip (1987)
1927 - 5 3/8 inches - Clip (1988)
1936 - 5 inches - T-Clip (1990)

2 BLADES
2851 - 3 inches - Spear/pen (1988)
2857 - 3 1/4 inches - Spear/pen (1987)
2880 ½ - 3 7/8 inches - Spear/clip (1988)
2903 - 3 3/8 inches - Spear/pen (1990)
2904 - 4 1/8 inches - T-Clip/spey (1987)
2904 ½ - 4 inches - T-Clip/spey (1989)
2913 ½ - 4 1/4 inches - Clip/spear (1988)
2921 - 3 1/2 inches - Spear/pen (1987)
2935 - 3 1/4 inches - Wharncliffe/pen (1988)
2967 - 3 7/8 inches - Spear/clip (1988)
2978 - 3 1/4 inches - Spear/pen (1989)
2991 - 3 5/8 inches - Clip/spear (1988)

3 BLADES
3902 - 3 1/2 inches - Clip/pen/pen [Whittler] (1990)
3904 - 3 3/4 inches - Clip/spey/pen [Whittler] (1988)
3907 - 3 7/8 inches - Clip/spey/pen [Whittler] (1991)
3949 - 3 3/4 inches - Clip/spey/sheepsfoot (1989)
3964 - 3 5/8 inches - Clip/spey/sheepsfoot (1987)
3971 - 3 1/2 inches - Clip/small clip/pen [Whittler] (1989)
3995 - 4 inches - Spear/pen/pen [Whittler] (1991)

4 Blades
4935 - 3 1/4 inches - Sheepsfoot/Sheepsfoot/pen/pen (1991)


Kdarmy originally posted a list of Black Box/Red Letter Winchester knives. That list stands true today as far as I know. The only one I've haven't seen a trace of is the 1936 ½ Toothpick from 1992. I've seen several 1036 ½ toothpicks from 1992, but none of them were jigged bone. If anyone has a photo of a 1936 ½ jigged bone Toothpick, I'd love to see what this variation looks like.

There are also two sets:

- Model 37 Red Letter Set (5 knives)
- The Scouts (2 knives)

They're out there, but I keep buying Northfield and TC Barlows... so I may never get those sets :D

It has been fun collecting these. As Charlie has noted previously, you can definitely see the hand of Bill Howard in these knives. They are superb!

Many thanks to mckgreg for the beautiful pictures he posted years ago... that's what really inspired me to start collecting these.
 
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That is a fantastic collection of a classic line. Thanks for posting photos. I really love how dark brown shows through some of the black. Were all of equal quality, or were some better made than others? I have a 1987 Stockman (3964) that I just love.
 
RobbW said:
That is a fantastic collection of a classic line. Thanks for posting photos. I really love how dark brown shows through some of the black. Were all of equal quality, or were some better made than others? I have a 1987 Stockman (3964) that I just love.
Click to expand...

All of the black box models made by Queen, with either bone, stag, or pearl, were of excellent and consistent quality. These were the knives made under the watchful eye of Bill Howard. There were some made with celluloid, which were solid knives, but they are notorious for out gassing and rusting due to the deterioration of the celluloid. Avoid the celluloid knives.

Also, some of the Queen made knives appeared in white boxes with colorful printing. These are also mostly (perhaps all) Queen made and very solid knives. These were also more unusual, with yellow and orange and red jigged bone, and interesting patterns like whittlers with 4 1/2 inch blades, and elephant toenail sized whittlers. These also had some interesting shields, like buffalo heads and rifles, and also often have pinched bolsters.

Bluegrass later contracted some of the knives to Camillus, and started using delrin for the handles. Most of the Camillus knives were solid, but not nearly as refined as the Queen knives.

In my opinion, the Queen made Winchester knives are some of the finest built knives ever. I have around fifty of them.
 
Thanks dma1965. I really appreciate that information. To me, my Black Box Stockman is the quintessential stockman pattern. It is sized, shaped, fitted and finished just right. The steel is heat treated well, and performs admirably. Bill Howard has been a huge asset to the traditional-knife community. We're lucky to have his committed vision, focus on quality, and sense of aesthetics.
 
Thanks, Rob. As dma1965 noted, quality is consistent... these are some of the best production knives I own.

... and I'll echo what he said about celluloid-handled versions... stay away. I've only seen a few out of hundreds that aren't out-gassing... and those few are time bombs. The celluloid they used was especially volatile.

All the others are good to go.
 
MerryMadMonk said:
Someone asked to see the Winchester "Black Box" knives in one post. Well, here they are...

WinchesterPile_zpsfma0awyr.jpg


That's probably not what you had in mind :D sooooooooooo...


I made this chart for those who are interested in collecting Winchester "Black Box" knives. These are the ones that came out from 1987 to 1991.

Winchesters2_zpsqhd2ba5o.jpg


1 BLADE
1901 - 4 inches - Clip (1987)
1920 - 5 1/4 inches - Clip (1990)
1924 - 4 1/4 inches - Clip (1987)
1927 - 5 3/8 inches - Clip (1988)
1936 - 5 inches - T-Clip (1990)

2 BLADES
2851 - 3 inches - Spear/pen (1988)
2857 - 3 1/4 inches - Spear/pen (1987)
2880 ½ - 3 7/8 inches - Spear/clip (1988)
2903 - 3 3/8 inches - Spear/pen (1990)
2904 - 4 1/8 inches - T-Clip/spey (1987)
2904 ½ - 4 inches - T-Clip/spey (1989)
2913 ½ - 4 1/4 inches - Clip/spear (1988)
2921 - 3 1/2 inches - Spear/pen (1987)
2935 - 3 1/4 inches - Wharncliffe/pen (1988)
2967 - 3 7/8 inches - Spear/clip (1988)
2978 - 3 1/4 inches - Spear/pen (1989)
2991 - 3 5/8 inches - Clip/spear (1988)

3 BLADES
3902 - 3 1/2 inches - Clip/pen/pen [Whittler] (1990)
3904 - 3 3/4 inches - Clip/spey/pen [Whittler] (1988)
3907 - 3 7/8 inches - Clip/spey/pen [Whittler] (1991)
3949 - 3 3/4 inches - Clip/spey/sheepsfoot (1989)
3964 - 3 5/8 inches - Clip/spey/sheepsfoot (1987)
3971 - 3 1/2 inches - Clip/small clip/pen [Whittler] (1989)
3995 - 4 inches - Spear/pen/pen [Whittler] (1991)

4 Blades
4935 - 3 1/4 inches - Sheepsfoot/Sheepsfoot/pen/pen (1991)


Kdarmy originally posted a list of Black Box/Red Letter Winchester knives. That list stands true today as far as I know. The only one I've haven't seen a trace of is the 1936 ½ Toothpick from 1992. I've seen several 1036 ½ toothpicks from 1992, but none of them were jigged bone. If anyone has a photo of a 1936 ½ jigged bone Toothpick, I'd love to see what this variation looks like.

There are also two sets:

- Model 37 Red Letter Set (5 knives)
- The Scouts (2 knives)

They're out there, but I keep buying Northfield and TC Barlows... so I may never get those sets :D

It has been fun collecting these. As Charlie has noted previously, you can definitely see the hand of Bill Howard in these knives. They are superb!

Many thanks to mckgreg for the beautiful pictures he posted years ago... that's what really inspired me to start collecting these.
Click to expand...

A nice collector's reference, AL!
Thanks!!
 
Nice reference, I was able to identify the two I own. I've only carried the Moose; you need some stout handwork to open the stout spring on the main blade! OH

IMG_59492.JPG
 
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