Blade Forums Spring Street Barlow (BF Knife 2021)

Like from out of this world and beamed to earth !!!

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ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering if some folks who are suggesting that they'd like to grind their pins down actually have any concept of what a spun pin is. Pins are spun on any knife handle when the maker wants to preserve the surface texture of the handle material while still binding the knife together. That could be anything from stag to jigged bone to textured handles or, in this case, to sawcut bone. There's just a pin sized hole drilled through the covers on these. The pin is inserted and nipped close to the covers, then a concave "bit" is inserted into two opposing chucks, which are spun while they're pressed against both sides of the nipped pin. This spinning pressure and resulting heat form a head on each end of the pin that is drawn against the handles while additionally pulling the assembly together. This head rests on the surface of the handle. In many cases it's not quite totally flat on the bottom but slightly flares down from the pin shaft to the edges, kind of like a mushroom cap. This has been done on sawcut barlows since the advent of spun pins, and you always have some protrusion of the pins, it's just what they do. It's a very strong joint as it should be since there's quite a bit of lateral force on the spring that's trying to pry the knife apart.
Now, if you go and sand that head down even a little you're substantially weakening that joint. You'll be thinning an already soft metal (brass) and the resulting foil thin head (especially near the shaft where it flares up a bit anyway) will eventually start to give resulting in the pin sinking into the hole and causing gaps in the spring/liner/handle. That's if you don't actually wind up filing the whole head off to begin with. There's nothing below that head that's going to hold the parts together.
On knives with smooth handles and flush pins, the entire process is different. The handles themselves are countersunk and the pin is peened into the countersink, filling it and forming a vee head like a wood screw. When the excess pin is sanded off as the handles are sanded, you're left with that vee head below the surface which is what holds everything together the same as that spun pin head does.

You can't achieve the same surface finish results with a spun pin that you get with a countersunk pin, it just won't work and you'll ruin the knife.

Now you're probably asking why the handle pins are flush then. Well they're an entirely different animal. They're pre-headed pins with a half hollow shaft. The hole in the handle is counterbored to fit the pin head, and the liner is countersunk. The pin is pressed from the half hollow end which protrudes from the liner once it's inserted. The press has a wide pointed fixture that spreads that hollow portion of the pin into the countersunk liner, tightly attaching the handle to the liner. That method only works for attaching handles.

I think GEC did a great job on those pins. They're done in such a way that the handles are left totally unmarred by a spinner that got too close which I think is an amazing accomplishment in itself. It'd be a shame to see a bunch ruined for no reason.

Eric
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Thanks for jumping in, Eric!! You've upped my understanding of knife construction yet again!!
 
ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering...
Eric
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It's baffling why this subject keeps coming up. A domed pin, whether it's a spun pin or a scale rivet may stick up above the scale material. As long as it's smooth, and there's nothing that a fingernail catches on it's properly set. Even if the scales have counterbored areas for the pins, the dome of the pin can still stick up above the scale.

If there are sharp edges, or if you can hang the knife from a pin by a fingernail, that's a different story.

I think this another of those Internet things. Somebody notices an otherwise properly set pin sitting high, and worries that it's a sign of poor workmanship. Lots of people start worrying. Next thing you know, well, I don't know what happens next. Should have thought that one out a little better. In any event, your pins are fine.
 
I really like the pins when they are spun rather than ground smooth. However sometimes a little sliver of brass may be hanging off the side of a pin and can be rather sharp. All I've ever had to do was carefully with an awl either press it down or wiggle it off.
 
dsutton24 said:
It's baffling why this subject keeps coming up. A domed pin, whether it's a spun pin or a scale rivet may stick up above the scale material. As long as it's smooth, and there's nothing that a fingernail catches on it's properly set. Even if the scales have counterbored areas for the pins, the dome of the pin can still stick up above the scale.

If there are sharp edges, or if you can hang the knife from a pin by a fingernail, that's a different story.

I think this another of those Internet things. Somebody notices an otherwise properly set pin sitting high, and worries that it's a sign of poor workmanship. Lots of people start worrying. Next thing you know, well, I don't know what happens next. Should have thought that one out a little better. In any event, your pins are fine.
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It's simply the fact that many of us don't know these small little differences. I've been collecting for years but learned a ton from his post as many people collecting a lot longer than I have did. Now I didn't think anything was "wrong" but it should not baffle you that some people didn't know.
 
ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering if some folks who are suggesting that they'd like to grind their pins down actually have any concept of what a spun pin is. Pins are spun on any knife handle when the maker wants to preserve the surface texture of the handle material while still binding the knife together. That could be anything from stag to jigged bone to textured handles or, in this case, to sawcut bone. There's just a pin sized hole drilled through the covers on these. The pin is inserted and nipped close to the covers, then a concave "bit" is inserted into two opposing chucks, which are spun while they're pressed against both sides of the nipped pin. This spinning pressure and resulting heat form a head on each end of the pin that is drawn against the handles while additionally pulling the assembly together. This head rests on the surface of the handle. In many cases it's not quite totally flat on the bottom but slightly flares down from the pin shaft to the edges, kind of like a mushroom cap. This has been done on sawcut barlows since the advent of spun pins, and you always have some protrusion of the pins, it's just what they do. It's a very strong joint as it should be since there's quite a bit of lateral force on the spring that's trying to pry the knife apart.
Now, if you go and sand that head down even a little you're substantially weakening that joint. You'll be thinning an already soft metal (brass) and the resulting foil thin head (especially near the shaft where it flares up a bit anyway) will eventually start to give resulting in the pin sinking into the hole and causing gaps in the spring/liner/handle. That's if you don't actually wind up filing the whole head off to begin with. There's nothing below that head that's going to hold the parts together.
On knives with smooth handles and flush pins, the entire process is different. The handles themselves are countersunk and the pin is peened into the countersink, filling it and forming a vee head like a wood screw. When the excess pin is sanded off as the handles are sanded, you're left with that vee head below the surface which is what holds everything together the same as that spun pin head does.

You can't achieve the same surface finish results with a spun pin that you get with a countersunk pin, it just won't work and you'll ruin the knife.

Now you're probably asking why the handle pins are flush then. Well they're an entirely different animal. They're pre-headed pins with a half hollow shaft. The hole in the handle is counterbored to fit the pin head, and the liner is countersunk. The pin is pressed from the half hollow end which protrudes from the liner once it's inserted. The press has a wide pointed fixture that spreads that hollow portion of the pin into the countersunk liner, tightly attaching the handle to the liner. That method only works for attaching handles.

I think GEC did a great job on those pins. They're done in such a way that the handles are left totally unmarred by a spinner that got too close which I think is an amazing accomplishment in itself. It'd be a shame to see a bunch ruined for no reason.

Eric
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If anyone knows of a video that shows this process I’d like to see it, I have trouble conceptualizing the mechanics of it.
 
Markeologist said:
I keep reading how the Spring Street Barlow is the best quality GEC knife that has ever been produced. Mine is certainly very nice but I start to question how many GEC’s folks have handlled when I read such pronouncements…the Washingtons are GEC’s gold standard IMHO.
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"Ever" is such a profound word to use, isn't it? I chuckle whenever I hear these statements.
 
Domed pin always preferable to some sink-hole eyesore....:D

Many CASE knives, Swayback in particular, have two large domed pins and two smaller flush pins and this looks good too.

My Forum Knife is here, could be the first outside the USA, but how long will it take for domestic delivery.....no breath being held here ;)
 
BDubbs said:
All things equal I prefer flush but as I don’t build em I don’t know much about the pros/cons of domed/sunk/flush construction
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Given a choice, I also prefer flush and finished... But don't believe sunken or domed are flaws that need to be remedied or complained about.
My friend Todd bigfish64 bigfish64 didn't like the domed pins, I actually do like them, and we both still get along just fine... there's room in this world for varying opinions.
 
JohnDF said:
Given a choice, I also prefer flush and finished... But don't believe sunken or domed are flaws that need to be remedied or complained about.
My friend Todd bigfish64 bigfish64 didn't like the domed pins, I actually do like them, and we both still get along just fine... there's room in this world for varying opinions.
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Perfectly said my friend. In my opinion, if friendships are based on knife preferences, it’s time to get new friends. 😉👍
 
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