Blade Forums Spring Street Barlow (BF Knife 2021)

khopesh said:
Picture of mine below. Can see how 2 of the pins are higher then the others. I might want to adjust it at some point but for now I find myself using the pin as worry spot. maybe it will flatten over time :)

the spring pin is a little sharp, I think mostly because of the cover tapering at that point.

View attachment 1668433
Click to expand...
Unless it was cutting/hurting my hand I would leave it.
 
ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering if some folks who are suggesting that they'd like to grind their pins down actually have any concept of what a spun pin is. Pins are spun on any knife handle when the maker wants to preserve the surface texture of the handle material while still binding the knife together. That could be anything from stag to jigged bone to textured handles or, in this case, to sawcut bone. There's just a pin sized hole drilled through the covers on these. The pin is inserted and nipped close to the covers, then a concave "bit" is inserted into two opposing chucks, which are spun while they're pressed against both sides of the nipped pin. This spinning pressure and resulting heat form a head on each end of the pin that is drawn against the handles while additionally pulling the assembly together. This head rests on the surface of the handle. In many cases it's not quite totally flat on the bottom but slightly flares down from the pin shaft to the edges, kind of like a mushroom cap. This has been done on sawcut barlows since the advent of spun pins, and you always have some protrusion of the pins, it's just what they do. It's a very strong joint as it should be since there's quite a bit of lateral force on the spring that's trying to pry the knife apart.
Now, if you go and sand that head down even a little you're substantially weakening that joint. You'll be thinning an already soft metal (brass) and the resulting foil thin head (especially near the shaft where it flares up a bit anyway) will eventually start to give resulting in the pin sinking into the hole and causing gaps in the spring/liner/handle. That's if you don't actually wind up filing the whole head off to begin with. There's nothing below that head that's going to hold the parts together.
On knives with smooth handles and flush pins, the entire process is different. The handles themselves are countersunk and the pin is peened into the countersink, filling it and forming a vee head like a wood screw. When the excess pin is sanded off as the handles are sanded, you're left with that vee head below the surface which is what holds everything together the same as that spun pin head does.

You can't achieve the same surface finish results with a spun pin that you get with a countersunk pin, it just won't work and you'll ruin the knife.

Now you're probably asking why the handle pins are flush then. Well they're an entirely different animal. They're pre-headed pins with a half hollow shaft. The hole in the handle is counterbored to fit the pin head, and the liner is countersunk. The pin is pressed from the half hollow end which protrudes from the liner once it's inserted. The press has a wide pointed fixture that spreads that hollow portion of the pin into the countersunk liner, tightly attaching the handle to the liner. That method only works for attaching handles.

I think GEC did a great job on those pins. They're done in such a way that the handles are left totally unmarred by a spinner that got too close which I think is an amazing accomplishment in itself. It'd be a shame to see a bunch ruined for no reason.

Eric
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting this.

Johnnythefox said:
Unless it was cutting/hurting my hand I would leave it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. If a sharp edge of a spun pin were actually uncomfortable during use, or tearing a hole in my pocket) I would apply a tiny drop of gap filling epoxy just under and around the head of the pin. It works wonders:
F9xJ3Dl.jpg
 
ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering if some folks who are suggesting that they'd like to grind their pins down actually have any concept of what a spun pin is. Pins are spun on any knife handle when the maker wants to preserve the surface texture of the handle material while still binding the knife together. That could be anything from stag to jigged bone to textured handles or, in this case, to sawcut bone. There's just a pin sized hole drilled through the covers on these. The pin is inserted and nipped close to the covers, then a concave "bit" is inserted into two opposing chucks, which are spun while they're pressed against both sides of the nipped pin. This spinning pressure and resulting heat form a head on each end of the pin that is drawn against the handles while additionally pulling the assembly together. This head rests on the surface of the handle. In many cases it's not quite totally flat on the bottom but slightly flares down from the pin shaft to the edges, kind of like a mushroom cap. This has been done on sawcut barlows since the advent of spun pins, and you always have some protrusion of the pins, it's just what they do. It's a very strong joint as it should be since there's quite a bit of lateral force on the spring that's trying to pry the knife apart.
Now, if you go and sand that head down even a little you're substantially weakening that joint. You'll be thinning an already soft metal (brass) and the resulting foil thin head (especially near the shaft where it flares up a bit anyway) will eventually start to give resulting in the pin sinking into the hole and causing gaps in the spring/liner/handle. That's if you don't actually wind up filing the whole head off to begin with. There's nothing below that head that's going to hold the parts together.
On knives with smooth handles and flush pins, the entire process is different. The handles themselves are countersunk and the pin is peened into the countersink, filling it and forming a vee head like a wood screw. When the excess pin is sanded off as the handles are sanded, you're left with that vee head below the surface which is what holds everything together the same as that spun pin head does.

You can't achieve the same surface finish results with a spun pin that you get with a countersunk pin, it just won't work and you'll ruin the knife.

Now you're probably asking why the handle pins are flush then. Well they're an entirely different animal. They're pre-headed pins with a half hollow shaft. The hole in the handle is counterbored to fit the pin head, and the liner is countersunk. The pin is pressed from the half hollow end which protrudes from the liner once it's inserted. The press has a wide pointed fixture that spreads that hollow portion of the pin into the countersunk liner, tightly attaching the handle to the liner. That method only works for attaching handles.

I think GEC did a great job on those pins. They're done in such a way that the handles are left totally unmarred by a spinner that got too close which I think is an amazing accomplishment in itself. It'd be a shame to see a bunch ruined for no reason.

Eric
Click to expand...
Quality post. Thanks for the education. 🤠 :thumbsup:
 
ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering if some folks who are suggesting that they'd like to grind their pins down actually have any concept of what a spun pin is. Pins are spun on any knife handle when the maker wants to preserve the surface texture of the handle material while still binding the knife together. That could be anything from stag to jigged bone to textured handles or, in this case, to sawcut bone. There's just a pin sized hole drilled through the covers on these. The pin is inserted and nipped close to the covers, then a concave "bit" is inserted into two opposing chucks, which are spun while they're pressed against both sides of the nipped pin. This spinning pressure and resulting heat form a head on each end of the pin that is drawn against the handles while additionally pulling the assembly together. This head rests on the surface of the handle. In many cases it's not quite totally flat on the bottom but slightly flares down from the pin shaft to the edges, kind of like a mushroom cap. This has been done on sawcut barlows since the advent of spun pins, and you always have some protrusion of the pins, it's just what they do. It's a very strong joint as it should be since there's quite a bit of lateral force on the spring that's trying to pry the knife apart.
Now, if you go and sand that head down even a little you're substantially weakening that joint. You'll be thinning an already soft metal (brass) and the resulting foil thin head (especially near the shaft where it flares up a bit anyway) will eventually start to give resulting in the pin sinking into the hole and causing gaps in the spring/liner/handle. That's if you don't actually wind up filing the whole head off to begin with. There's nothing below that head that's going to hold the parts together.
On knives with smooth handles and flush pins, the entire process is different. The handles themselves are countersunk and the pin is peened into the countersink, filling it and forming a vee head like a wood screw. When the excess pin is sanded off as the handles are sanded, you're left with that vee head below the surface which is what holds everything together the same as that spun pin head does.

You can't achieve the same surface finish results with a spun pin that you get with a countersunk pin, it just won't work and you'll ruin the knife.

Now you're probably asking why the handle pins are flush then. Well they're an entirely different animal. They're pre-headed pins with a half hollow shaft. The hole in the handle is counterbored to fit the pin head, and the liner is countersunk. The pin is pressed from the half hollow end which protrudes from the liner once it's inserted. The press has a wide pointed fixture that spreads that hollow portion of the pin into the countersunk liner, tightly attaching the handle to the liner. That method only works for attaching handles.

I think GEC did a great job on those pins. They're done in such a way that the handles are left totally unmarred by a spinner that got too close which I think is an amazing accomplishment in itself. It'd be a shame to see a bunch ruined for no reason.

Eric
Click to expand...
This was very interesting and informative. Thank you very much.
I will be leaving mine alone. They bothered me at first but over time I have gotten used to using the proud pin as a touch point.
 
ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering if some folks who are suggesting that they'd like to grind their pins down actually have any concept of what a spun pin is. Pins are spun on any knife handle when the maker wants to preserve the surface texture of the handle material while still binding the knife together. That could be anything from stag to jigged bone to textured handles or, in this case, to sawcut bone. There's just a pin sized hole drilled through the covers on these. The pin is inserted and nipped close to the covers, then a concave "bit" is inserted into two opposing chucks, which are spun while they're pressed against both sides of the nipped pin. This spinning pressure and resulting heat form a head on each end of the pin that is drawn against the handles while additionally pulling the assembly together. This head rests on the surface of the handle. In many cases it's not quite totally flat on the bottom but slightly flares down from the pin shaft to the edges, kind of like a mushroom cap. This has been done on sawcut barlows since the advent of spun pins, and you always have some protrusion of the pins, it's just what they do. It's a very strong joint as it should be since there's quite a bit of lateral force on the spring that's trying to pry the knife apart.
Now, if you go and sand that head down even a little you're substantially weakening that joint. You'll be thinning an already soft metal (brass) and the resulting foil thin head (especially near the shaft where it flares up a bit anyway) will eventually start to give resulting in the pin sinking into the hole and causing gaps in the spring/liner/handle. That's if you don't actually wind up filing the whole head off to begin with. There's nothing below that head that's going to hold the parts together.
On knives with smooth handles and flush pins, the entire process is different. The handles themselves are countersunk and the pin is peened into the countersink, filling it and forming a vee head like a wood screw. When the excess pin is sanded off as the handles are sanded, you're left with that vee head below the surface which is what holds everything together the same as that spun pin head does.

You can't achieve the same surface finish results with a spun pin that you get with a countersunk pin, it just won't work and you'll ruin the knife.

Now you're probably asking why the handle pins are flush then. Well they're an entirely different animal. They're pre-headed pins with a half hollow shaft. The hole in the handle is counterbored to fit the pin head, and the liner is countersunk. The pin is pressed from the half hollow end which protrudes from the liner once it's inserted. The press has a wide pointed fixture that spreads that hollow portion of the pin into the countersunk liner, tightly attaching the handle to the liner. That method only works for attaching handles.

I think GEC did a great job on those pins. They're done in such a way that the handles are left totally unmarred by a spinner that got too close which I think is an amazing accomplishment in itself. It'd be a shame to see a bunch ruined for no reason.

Eric
Click to expand...
Thank you for this Eric. Started the day off learning something new thumb.gif
r8shell said:
Thank you for posting this.


Exactly. If a sharp edge of a spun pin were actually uncomfortable during use, or tearing a hole in my pocket) I would apply a tiny drop of gap filling epoxy just under and around the head of the pin. It works wonders:
F9xJ3Dl.jpg
Click to expand...
I have a Case Tribal Lock with a couple of protruding pins that have sharp edges. It does bug me and I've thought of filing them down, but I like the drop of epoxy idea.
JohnDF said:
I think the pins give it a cool "old timey" feel. 🤠 :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering if some folks who are suggesting that they'd like to grind their pins down actually have any concept of what a spun pin is. Pins are spun on any knife handle when the maker wants to preserve the surface texture of the handle material while still binding the knife together. That could be anything from stag to jigged bone to textured handles or, in this case, to sawcut bone. There's just a pin sized hole drilled through the covers on these. The pin is inserted and nipped close to the covers, then a concave "bit" is inserted into two opposing chucks, which are spun while they're pressed against both sides of the nipped pin. This spinning pressure and resulting heat form a head on each end of the pin that is drawn against the handles while additionally pulling the assembly together. This head rests on the surface of the handle. In many cases it's not quite totally flat on the bottom but slightly flares down from the pin shaft to the edges, kind of like a mushroom cap. This has been done on sawcut barlows since the advent of spun pins, and you always have some protrusion of the pins, it's just what they do. It's a very strong joint as it should be since there's quite a bit of lateral force on the spring that's trying to pry the knife apart.
Now, if you go and sand that head down even a little you're substantially weakening that joint. You'll be thinning an already soft metal (brass) and the resulting foil thin head (especially near the shaft where it flares up a bit anyway) will eventually start to give resulting in the pin sinking into the hole and causing gaps in the spring/liner/handle. That's if you don't actually wind up filing the whole head off to begin with. There's nothing below that head that's going to hold the parts together.
On knives with smooth handles and flush pins, the entire process is different. The handles themselves are countersunk and the pin is peened into the countersink, filling it and forming a vee head like a wood screw. When the excess pin is sanded off as the handles are sanded, you're left with that vee head below the surface which is what holds everything together the same as that spun pin head does.

You can't achieve the same surface finish results with a spun pin that you get with a countersunk pin, it just won't work and you'll ruin the knife.

Now you're probably asking why the handle pins are flush then. Well they're an entirely different animal. They're pre-headed pins with a half hollow shaft. The hole in the handle is counterbored to fit the pin head, and the liner is countersunk. The pin is pressed from the half hollow end which protrudes from the liner once it's inserted. The press has a wide pointed fixture that spreads that hollow portion of the pin into the countersunk liner, tightly attaching the handle to the liner. That method only works for attaching handles.

I think GEC did a great job on those pins. They're done in such a way that the handles are left totally unmarred by a spinner that got too close which I think is an amazing accomplishment in itself. It'd be a shame to see a bunch ruined for no reason.

Eric
Click to expand...

Excellent tutorial on the function of the pins, or as they're sometimes called, Rivets..... Rivets have been used for eons to hold things together before threaded fasteners became easy to manufacture..... Bridges, buildings, airplanes, boilers, etc all relied on Rivets to hold the components together....

The head of the rivet is akin to the head of a bolt..... The height of the head should be equal to or greater than the diameter of the fastener..... So, modifications to the head height will adversely affect the axial strength of the fastener.......
 
HEMI 49 said:
The head of the rivet is akin to the head of a bolt..... The height of the head should be equal to or greater than the diameter of the fastener..... So, modifications to the head height will adversely affect the axial strength of the fastener.......
Click to expand...
Hey! I didn't know knife collecting would have math! 😵‍💫😵‍


...😄👍
 
ea42 said:
I'm honestly wondering if some folks who are suggesting that they'd like to grind their pins down actually have any concept of what a spun pin is. Pins are spun on any knife handle when the maker wants to preserve the surface texture of the handle material while still binding the knife together. That could be anything from stag to jigged bone to textured handles or, in this case, to sawcut bone. There's just a pin sized hole drilled through the covers on these. The pin is inserted and nipped close to the covers, then a concave "bit" is inserted into two opposing chucks, which are spun while they're pressed against both sides of the nipped pin. This spinning pressure and resulting heat form a head on each end of the pin that is drawn against the handles while additionally pulling the assembly together. This head rests on the surface of the handle. In many cases it's not quite totally flat on the bottom but slightly flares down from the pin shaft to the edges, kind of like a mushroom cap. This has been done on sawcut barlows since the advent of spun pins, and you always have some protrusion of the pins, it's just what they do. It's a very strong joint as it should be since there's quite a bit of lateral force on the spring that's trying to pry the knife apart.
Now, if you go and sand that head down even a little you're substantially weakening that joint. You'll be thinning an already soft metal (brass) and the resulting foil thin head (especially near the shaft where it flares up a bit anyway) will eventually start to give resulting in the pin sinking into the hole and causing gaps in the spring/liner/handle. That's if you don't actually wind up filing the whole head off to begin with. There's nothing below that head that's going to hold the parts together.
On knives with smooth handles and flush pins, the entire process is different. The handles themselves are countersunk and the pin is peened into the countersink, filling it and forming a vee head like a wood screw. When the excess pin is sanded off as the handles are sanded, you're left with that vee head below the surface which is what holds everything together the same as that spun pin head does.

You can't achieve the same surface finish results with a spun pin that you get with a countersunk pin, it just won't work and you'll ruin the knife.

Now you're probably asking why the handle pins are flush then. Well they're an entirely different animal. They're pre-headed pins with a half hollow shaft. The hole in the handle is counterbored to fit the pin head, and the liner is countersunk. The pin is pressed from the half hollow end which protrudes from the liner once it's inserted. The press has a wide pointed fixture that spreads that hollow portion of the pin into the countersunk liner, tightly attaching the handle to the liner. That method only works for attaching handles.

I think GEC did a great job on those pins. They're done in such a way that the handles are left totally unmarred by a spinner that got too close which I think is an amazing accomplishment in itself. It'd be a shame to see a bunch ruined for no reason.

Eric
Click to expand...
This was a excellent post.
When my Remington bullet arrived today I saw it with a different perspective when I looked it over and then compared it to my GEC Trapper.

Thank you for taking the time to write and post.
 
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