Blade Length at Scout Camp

Normark

Normark

Joined
Nov 7, 1999
Messages
6,651
Hey Guys....

I just had it out with an old Scouter that told me that my "Rambo " knife ( BM-E) LMAO, was "inappropriate" for a School group that was taking part of a Scouting Activity...

He told me that it was in the "regulations".. I said "Show Me"

It went down hill from there when I asked him if Large Hammers and Crowbars Scared him too ...

Guess who Won ??


Large knives when used correctly have just as much of a place in the woods as any other knife... When we are teaching young people to respect and treat knives as tools instead of hiding them away and pretend they don't exist...

This wasn't the first time that he has engaged me on this, however it will Hopefully be the last, as I have the support of the area Director (A female) who has no problem with large knives as long as they are used in the manner they were intended to be used for..

I will continue to push his buttons as long as he has his attitude...
From what I understand he didn't much like the tomahawk sticking out of the back of my pants in the lunch line much either.. LMAO

It's people like him that have turned Scouting into the Glitter and Glue it is Today.. I wonder what BP would have said ??

I won't be part of that, and will continue to encourage and promote responsible knife as a tool usage..

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Good for you Eric. What will happen if you baton wood in front of him???
;p
 
What a tool. I'm not involved in scouts in any way, never was, but the goofy fixed blades (even being allowed to have them) and blade length always aggravated me.
 
He shouldn't be in Scouting if he don't want to get dirt under his fingernails.
I'm sure the Glee Club could use his help. Plenty of glue and glitter there.

Keep up the good work, brother! :D
 
Hang a machete on your belt next time. I remember teaching my Scout troop how to use axes and knives safely, and how to keep them sharp.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
He shouldn't be in Scouting if he don't want to get dirt under his fingernails.
I'm sure the Glee Club could use his help. Plenty of glue and glitter there.

Keep up the good work, brother! :D
Click to expand...

GLEE!

There is nothing better than big, good knife in the woods.
 
I guess it would have to be pointed out that Dr. Bill's linked article (Thanks BTW for that link) provides arguments for both sides on the matter. Something tells me that if push comes to shove, the PQ will likely win this one. <-- Unfortunately. Might be best to reconcile with chronic complainer and see if you can bring him to your line of thinking.
 
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but here are some thoughts...

First, while Scouting is intend to teach young men to be capable in the woods, it is also intended to teach young men to respect others.

I don't know what kind of "Scouting" you are in, but in the BSA, a scout takes the following oath: On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times;To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law: A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

If you are "pushing his buttons" on purpose, as you suggested, then you are not being "friendly, courteous, kind, or obedient"

Also, as noted in the above website, a large "sheath knife" should be avoided.

Sheath knives/ fixed blade knives
The official BSA policy regarding sheath knives according to the "Guide to safe Scouting" is 'Avoid large sheath knives' and most camps do not allow scouts to carry them. Many years ago the BSA sold official sheath knives however scouts had to one up each other till scouts were carrying machetes. At that point most camps banned all sheath/fixed blade knives. The only knives a scout should be carrying is one that allows them to fold the blade into the handle for safe carrying. Almost every camp will allow scouts to have fixed blade knives in kitchen areas at campsites but the knives must stay in the kitchen area.

Of course, that's BSA, and I don't know what kind of scouting you are in.

I am the first one to stand up for our rights, but to do so appropriately. Disrespecting others is not always appropriate... but I might just be old fashioned.
 
Last edited:
Normark said:
Hey Guys....

I just had it out with an old Scouter that told me that my "Rambo " knife ( BM-E) LMAO, was "inappropriate" for a School group that was taking part of a Scouting Activity...

He told me that it was in the "regulations".. I said "Show Me"

It went down hill from there when I asked him if Large Hammers and Crowbars Scared him too ...

Guess who Won ??


Large knives when used correctly have just as much of a place in the woods as any other knife... When we are teaching young people to respect and treat knives as tools instead of hiding them away and pretend they don't exist...

This wasn't the first time that he has engaged me on this, however it will Hopefully be the last, as I have the support of the area Director (A female) who has no problem with large knives as long as they are used in the manner they were intended to be used for..

I will continue to push his buttons as long as he has his attitude...
From what I understand he didn't much like the tomahawk sticking out of the back of my pants in the lunch line much either.. LMAO

It's people like him that have turned Scouting into the Glitter and Glue it is Today.. I wonder what BP would have said ??

I won't be part of that, and will continue to encourage and promote responsible knife as a tool usage..

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
Click to expand...

I hope you closed your "conversation" with, YA BIG SISSY :D The director probably recognizes the sissy for the sissy he is and appreaciates having a real man like yourself around, who isn't afraid of big knives and can teach the younguns how to use them properly. Hat's off to you Eric! Good job. :thumbup:
 
Friendly, courteous, kind, and so on cuts both ways, and Eric is not a kid. He teaches safe and effective use of equipment.
 
It's too bad that scouting has come to things like this. When I was a scout, fixed blades were encouraged (won't fold on your fingers) and were even sold through the BSA catalogue.
 
Hello

jawilder

""If you are "pushing his buttons" on purpose, as you suggested, then you are not being "friendly, courteous, kind, or obedient""

I'm pushing his buttons because I'm in the Right....
Nowhere in the BP&P (Bylaws,Policies and Procedures is Blade length mentioned..

I teach Wilderness Survival,, not Camping.. There are simply things a large knife can do better than anything else, period.. I have a Valid use, size of blade is Meaningless. As Meaningless as the size of Saw ,Hammer, or Axe.. The Right tool for the right job...

It his he that isn't being courteous to me, when he confronts me in front of my Ventures at the Fair, and it is He that isn't being courteous when he starts his BS before I even finish getting out of the car.... He didn't bargain on me arguing back and having support from Our boss.. I don't answer to him, Period...



""Also, as noted in the above website, a large "sheath knife" should be avoided.""

It "should be avoided" but not against regulations... This also only pertains to "Boy Scouts".. The only regulations we have in Canada is against concealment.. There are No Blade length laws in Canada, Period.

ttoney

I closed the conversation with "You're a Canoe Instructor " LMAO

Thanks

Eric
O/ST
 
I am working on a project with a scout troop, developing sheaths and PSK's for the Scouts. I am working on the prototypes for the Troopleaders kids, with his direct input for how and what they should contain, with some input from me on what I think they will need more or less in a PSK only situation. Real funny thing, no fixed blades at all allowed by the local Troop authority. His first run included a BK11 or Izula, and some other stuff, but was shot down by the authority having jurisdiction. Second idea was the Tool Logic gizmo knive that has a knife, whistle, light, and firesteel in one. Using ranger bands, an ASK and other amenities, we finally got it passed the Troop Master or whatever he was called.

When I was in Scouts, the only rule about your knife was it had to be sharp. We used our knives to death for everything, and just looking back at the first knife I got in Scouts, was the Camillus BSA Knife. Good knife, but not for what we were doing.

I used an old beat up Kabar 1217, and my Troop leader gave me a pat on the back for bringing a "real" knife to Jamboree. My how the times have changed. I feel old.
:D
Moose
 
There are plenty of troops around that are not glitter and glue. Mine, for example - scoutmaster for 4.5 years until a year ago when other issues necessitated stepping back (still involved, though). My scouts knew I always had knives, and I encouraged them to do the same, but responsibly. They knew that if they abused their knife in any way it would be confiscated. I had no rules on our campouts about fixed blades except the responsible part. Surprisingly, few ever carried a fixed blade, and mostly what I saw were cheap, small folders (despite my example!)

BSA does not outlaw fixed blades, but rather discourages them. There are scout leaders, especially leaders at large, organized camps, that interpret this as meaning none allowed. I guess when you are dealing with many troops, and you don't know the culture of all those troops, it is easy to take such a stance for liability reasons. But you should not have trouble finding local troops that have a more sane, and traditional, view of fixed blades. And traditional views of camping, backpacking, canoeing, and wilderness survival skills.

And I agree with comments above - even if the other guy is being a total jerk, live by the scout law as much as possible while defending (civilly) your point. You will get a lot more support by being the calm one, especially if this goes up the scouting organization leadership chain.
 
Here in our council and district fixed blades are frowned upon. I, however, still carry a 4 or 5 inch fixed blade at all times. I teach the boys respect of their knives, axes, and saws. All the other leaders know of my love of knives and say nothing when I have them out bushcrafting or even whittling, and also taking care of kitchen duties. I however do not get them out and flash them around at Jamborees or multiple troop outings. I think that a max blade length for fixed blades should be implemented, and a blade too long should be taken away for the duration of the outing. Knives are an integral part of scouting and as all of you know make a day in the woods easier. I do feel though that it is inappropriate to antagonize another in front of scouts that are supposed to be living the Oath and Law, reguardless of who is on your side.
 
I find it odd that "Trustworthy" is the first descriptor in the Scout Law, right where it was when I was a kid, but a whole mess of folks in the Scouts think that scouts can't be trusted with a sheath knife. Trust is earned just like respect. If you teach them that they can't be trusted then they won't be trustworthy, period.

I left the scouts back in the 80s when this sort of stuff was just getting started. Everyone seems to have this idea that kids aren't capable of the same things that their grandparents and parents did at the same age. Of course they aren't, we won't let them be. :jerkit:
 
My son went on a high school campout (private christian school). He has a pretty nice collection of knives, but I counciled him not to take one seeing they would be on school grounds while packing up and unpacking their gear, and knives on a K-12 campus are illegal (state law).

I did send a nice axe with him (got to cut firewood afterall), telling him if things went really bad, he could defend himself better with that than any knife. He got to the campsite, and it seems that he was the only kid there that wasn't packing a blade.....
 
I carried a ka-bar from tenderfoot to life rank yea sometimes I got flack because they jad this BS rule about only having folding knives. I then put my Ka-bar away and asked the leader if I could borrow is Swiss Army Knife.... Later in the evening I was given the task of gathering and preparing firewood for dinner. Well to spite him being such a dummy I split wood by batoning his little red knife through some white oak branches.... The knife broke at the pin he got all mad... I told him " thats why you carry a fixedblade knife,you can carve a spoon and split wood. It then got heated and I left scouting. I still support the BSA but that leader was more "BS" than I cared to deal with I was 2 weeks from my eagle rank when I gave it up I was also in the OA.
 
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