Blade Length at Scout Camp

I was very lucky that my scout leaders liked knives and strongly encouraged carrying them. We were taught to use folders primarily so the habit has stuck with me to prefer folders when in the woods.

That leader would freak with me in the troop 'cause I open carry my duty weapon with my badge proudly displayed next to it :D

Proud Eagle Scout 2004 troop 232
 
I went to Dr Bill's link. I find it amusing that the facing ad to the article was for a straight razor. How old are these scouts anyway? When I was in scouts at ten years old,we were taught to shoot rifles. Also I never went anywhere without my belt knife,in those days.
 
chrisber said:
Here in our council and district fixed blades are frowned upon. I, however, still carry a 4 or 5 inch fixed blade at all times. I teach the boys respect of their knives, axes, and saws. All the other leaders know of my love of knives and say nothing when I have them out bushcrafting or even whittling, and also taking care of kitchen duties. I however do not get them out and flash them around at Jamborees or multiple troop outings. I think that a max blade length for fixed blades should be implemented, and a blade too long should be taken away for the duration of the outing. Knives are an integral part of scouting and as all of you know make a day in the woods easier. I do feel though that it is inappropriate to antagonize another in front of scouts that are supposed to be living the Oath and Law, reguardless of who is on your side.
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Why do you think there should be a maximum blade length?
 
tknife said:
It's too bad that scouting has come to things like this. When I was a scout, fixed blades were encouraged (won't fold on your fingers) and were even sold through the BSA catalogue.
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I'm on the side of Scouts being taught to use & respect knives BUT they are a chaotic group of young people where I come from.
Plus when I was a kid we didn't have XBOX or PS3 games where rampant slaughter is a game!Which is where a lot seem to learn their social behaviour.
It only takes one incident to spoil everyones camp. That is why the Scouts as an association have such rules.
I reckon they SHOULD be issued with a knife upon investiture into the Scouts (not cubs tho).
 
The Scouts need to learn the difference between games and the real world. They can only learn by doing. The kids should be prepared for the real world of the wilderness, that includes proper atire and tools. That being they should be required to carry a knife on the belt. It would be reasonable for the young ones to carry a fixed blade and learn to respect and care for it.

There should be programs that include using and maintaining knives. Such a program would provide the young ones with a real life skills and reduce the chances of serious injury.
 
psychophipps said:
I find it odd that "Trustworthy" is the first descriptor in the Scout Law, right where it was when I was a kid, but a whole mess of folks in the Scouts think that scouts can't be trusted with a sheath knife. Trust is earned just like respect. If you teach them that they can't be trusted then they won't be trustworthy, period.

I left the scouts back in the 80s when this sort of stuff was just getting started. Everyone seems to have this idea that kids aren't capable of the same things that their grandparents and parents did at the same age. Of course they aren't, we won't let them be. :jerkit:
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+1. It is with this in mind that I am teaching my three boys about life. If it didn't kill me, my dad, or my grandfather, I am pretty sure they will be fine...
 
Hello

Bufford

""There should be programs that include using and maintaining knives. Such a program would provide the young ones with a real life skills and reduce the chances of serious injury.""


The real problem with that is that most of the adult Scouters themselves don't possess the skills to pass them down to the youth...

I find it Disturbing that instructors are teaching dozens and dozens of people to hand off knives with the edge facing up.. What you have here are instructors who have been taught improperly, teaching these skills improperly...

I'm in the process of getting a lot of these things changed by standing up and Questioning the reasoning behind what is being taught...

For instance when they teach fire lighting they teach it with matches, BBQ lighters and pre-made tinder, like the cliche paraffin wax with shavings.. Whereas I teach Everything else including chemical,excluding friction only because I'm not completely there yet. Any idiot can light a fire with matches and lighters..

Last night I took my Ventures and another group over to the park and we did flint and steel fires.. They are preparing for the "Survivorman" Challenge and this was their first taste of flint and steel for some of them.. I was delighted that most of them got it A few of the females had a good start, but couldn't get to the char cloth stage...

None of my Vents taking this challenge will be allowed to take their standard fire kits, and will be stripped down to flint/steel/char cloth Only. None of them are allowed to start fires with lighters or matches unless it is an emergency.

IMHO These are the woodsman skills that we need to pass down to our youth.. We need to toughen them up, get them to feel comfortable in the woods and get them away from the Glitter and Glue. Leave the tents in the trailer and hand them a tarp..When they're use to the tarp take that away from them as well...

I just found out that one of the females mom's will now be joining us on camps.. Although she is a camper,, I think she will find our type of camping interesting......

Rant Mode

**OFF**

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
It's always amazing how much people fear things they have never used ;-). Always the shortest approach is to make a boogeyman disappear.

With most of the public a few generations into having only the necessary skills to find the food court at the mall, this trend will continue onward.

I mentioned wanting to set up and learn to forge knives to a few people the other day and got the funniest reactions heh. What happened to curiosity? I have no 'need' for this, it's just something I want to at least try and learn how it works. People don't understand this anymore. It's part of the underlying problem. If something can be simply bought or accomplished in a well known manner, anything outside that box must be 'trouble'.

The scouts have been grossly sanitized even from the late 70's and early 80's when I was involved.
 
Kingsqeak

"" It's always amazing how much people fear things they have never used ;-). Always the shortest approach is to make a boogeyman disappear.""

Exactly....

Take the curiosity out of it for them and it's no big deal..If something remains Forbidden they will always gravitate to something they aren't allowed...

Teach respect, proper use and Personal responsibility and these skills will go further than anything else..


""With most of the public a few generations into having only the necessary skills to find the food court at the mall, this trend will continue onward.""

This is also a big problem. Take that away from them and everyone panics.. The hydro goes out for a few days and people are lost....

A mom asked me where the can opener was..I handed her my SAK and opened it for her.. She thought I was joking..."Never see one of those before? " she replied "No!, LOL ". I asked her what kind of can opener she had at home.. " Electric" was the answer. "How do you open cans when the hydro is off?" I said .. "I Don't" she answered.

"So you have a full pantry of canned food, and you'll starve to death because you don't know how to use the SAK can opener( Which she had in her pack) "

So then I made everyone of the parents who never used one open a can with it...

Pathetic...

""I mentioned wanting to set up and learn to forge knives to a few people the other day and got the funniest reactions heh. What happened to curiosity?""

Gone....

"" I have no 'need' for this, it's just something I want to at least try and learn how it works. People don't understand this anymore. It's part of the underlying problem. If something can be simply bought or accomplished in a well known manner, anything outside that box must be 'trouble'.""

Trouble or too much work.....

My oldest son,, although good in the woods doesn't want to take the time to build his fire set properly.... When I make a fire unless I'm in a hurry or just simply lazy (not too often) I'll take 20-40 mins to collect everything I need,,and put it together...

That's because I want it to go up in flames with the first spark,Guaranteed ..
Not often my fires don't work on the first spark..



""The scouts have been grossly sanitized even from the late 70's and early 80's when I was involved.""

Yaaa it's even worse now...
They need more emphasis on Bushcraft no doubt....


ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Normark said:
They need more emphasis on Bushcraft no doubt....


ttyle

Eric
O/ST
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I couldn't agree more. Reliance on modern conviences is getting to epic proportions. Don't get me wrong, I got and use power at my house, but that's why I like getting backcountry, is so that I can do it on my own. I'm teaching my girls the right path also, so, maybe there will be 2 in the future that have the skills. Example:

100_1357.jpg


Its just firecraft now, but the big one is practicing her marksmanship,

100_1578.jpg


Shyann, my oldest will get her first knife for Christmas, pink Izula, and then we move on to the next step. We already practice her knife handling skills with a Kershaw Leek and a Spydie Dragonfly. The little one shows alot of promise for the knifework, and she gets her Daisy Buck in pink for Christmas this year. Some of us are teaching and training, just not enough.

Moose
 
texasred66 said:
moose-you are raising them right!:thumbup: in a few years they will be taking you camping:D
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Thanks, I'm tryin'. God blessed me with 2 girls, and I only know how to raise boys, so, I'm doin' my best.

They were in the Girl Scouts, and I was actually their troop leader, but I gave it up, when folks stopped bringin' their kids to our meetings. I figured it was because I was a guy, and some folks don't think guys should be Girl Scouts. Oh well.

Moose
 
Moose...

Awesome....

doing a good thing for them there..

Only Critique I have...

Where is the Eye Pro, during the marksmanship lesson ?? :)

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Moose...

Awesome....

doing a good thing for them there..

Only Critique I have...

Where is the Eye Pro, during the marksmanship lesson ?? :)

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Normark said:
Moose...

Awesome....

doing a good thing for them there..

Only Critique I have...

Where is the Eye Pro, during the marksmanship lesson ?? :)

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
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Good question, not sure. Never really thought about it. I wear 'em when I shoot at the range, but Red Ryder into soft pumpkins at 20yds, never gave it another thought.

I grew up shootin' without eye/ear pro, from BB guns to .308. I don't wear 'em when I hunt, or when I carry a sidearm. The only time we wear them is at the firing range. I make her wear them when she shoots the .22, but rarely for backyard BB plinkin'. Bad marks for parenting on that one, I guess.

Moose
 
Hey Moose

""Bad marks for parenting on that one, I guess.""

No,, not at all,, just overlooked is all....

My kids know that is they touch Anything with a projectile, slingshots,bows,pellet/BB gun they always have to wear eye pro.. They also know that if I catch them without it, it's time to play, "Find the hiking boot"... LOL They know I'm Really anal about it .. They're the same way with tools, even hand tools..

Don't mean to nit pick,, my daughter almost lost her eye to a hemorrhage a few years ago.

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Normark, I'm on your side with this. I was told a Scout could carry and use a sheath knife whenever they wanted. The rule(if you will here) is they have to carry it their pack not on a belt. I had many a talking to about my knives when I was an Ass't Scout Master.
I also taught the Wilderness Survival for our Troop.
This is one of the MANY reasons I stopped working with the Scouts. Besides the Wilderness Merit badge is more First Aid than Survival now. Funny they have a merit badge for first aid as well.
 
Why should there be a maximum blade length? Because it is in a kids nature to try and one-up each other. In other words "bring any knife you want" would eventually turn into boys bringing a two hand great sword (like the one William Wallace used in Braveheart) to spread butter or their toast for breakfast.

I love to use a large knife as much as the next person, but we dont have to carry a ten inch chopper to be successful woodsbummers. I feel that you can accomplish most any task that would arise with a four or five inch blade.
 
OP: stick to your guns. And knives. We can't let Nancys and Weak Sisters wreck our scouting heritage.
 
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