Blade show 2020

Discussion in 'Custom & Handmade Knives' started by Sidehill Gouger, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Critter

    Critter Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 23, 2003
    Well, logically, and there's little logic to many of the restrictions being put forth or proposed, simply ensuring people sanitize before picking up a knife, should be perfectly adequate, no need to wipe it down afterwards.
     
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  2. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    if I were displaying my work and allowing people to touch it, I'd feel responsible for keeping everything decontaminated. Would hate for my work to be a vector for infection. I'd be putting my work under glass and requiring permission to handle, and decontaminating after handling. Not as convenient, but I think we're all figuring out that pandemics are inherently inconvenient, so best to err on the side of prudence
     
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  3. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    You shouldn’t have to decon the work, just provide sanitizer for the customer to decon before & after coon-fingering the product.
     
  4. Aidenag

    Aidenag

    291
    Apr 16, 2009
    I really can't believe people are still planning on attending Blade. That region is seeing the highest increases on the planet right now. If it spreads at Blade likes its been spreading at other major social gatherings were going to lose a few smiths to this event :(
     
  5. Logan Pearce

    Logan Pearce Awesome Sauce Smith (A.S.S) Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    366
    Jan 21, 2012
    So are we all for Blade cancelling?

    The Arkansas Convention Center has kept me up to date with most of the new regulations. Even though the AKS is still a ways off. 2 weeks ago they sent me a letter about how I have to go through the Health Department. Gave me a long list of requirements. For me to have the Arkansas Knife Show the main things that are required is that:

    1) Everyone wears a mask
    2) Create a Flow Map (Basically the arrows on the ground at Wal-Mart)
    3) Sanitation Stations
    4) 6 Feet apart marking/dividers

    Those are the main four that I have to do. There are about a dozen other things, along with a 30 something page book that I have to read through and fill out. Of course, by the time that I get through with having all of this prepped...I get an e-mail saying how hard it is to have an event and they understand. If I want to transfer the date to next year then I have 30 days to decide on that.

    The fun part...as all of you who know me know..is that I get to be on all sides of this. Which is usually why I am so light hearted and nonchalant about most stuff. Mainly, because there is no 'winning' when you are in these positions. You are always the bad guy to someone, even if you do everything right. I knew that going into this. So does Blade. There is no good that comes out of cancelling the show or having the show.

    I mainly keep to myself about most of this, but here is what I see:

    Trade shows matter to our industry. They are like a body. The makers, collectors, and purveyors are the heart, blood, and soul. With the promoter acting as the brain. If any of these are missing, the body doesn't function right. I can't tell you how many times that I have heard people saying that knife shows are dead. They think instagram or facebook are the future.

    They aren't the future. They've been around for half my life. I say this and a lot of you know that I have a massive following that is so great I honestly don't even have to leave my house for the rest of my life, if I didn't want to. But~ I'm not a complete idiot. I know that every day all social media platforms are doing whatever they can to lessen the visibility of our industry. Every update they are trying to make it where knives are harder to find, if at all. If you don't believe me, then get buy a few online ads through them. Most of you can't, because you are tagged as a maker and it goes against the policy. These platforms are a benefit and an amazing bonus, but the only way I would ever agree with someone who thinks this way, is if I am hoping that they do put all their eggs in a basket that is going to be potentially ran over by a bus.

    A virtual show is great. Jerry Fisk talked to me about the idea about 6-7 years ago. I believe he talked to Shackleford about it prior to that. He can chime in on that. The problem with them, is just like Joe said, the energy of the show is what makes it. It's the contact with friends and making new ones that you don't get through a virtual show. When Jerry talked about it, he thought it would be a good add on to the show. Which I do agree. An extra perk to the show. But all virtual shows are going to be like the virtual classes that schools are trying to do. There are going to be a crap load of drop outs. Literally.


    As a show promoter, I haven't lost nearly as much as the other shows have. Thankfully. I'm lucky that most of the exhibitors care about the show, because it is their show. What I have to figure out is which bad guy do I want to be.

    Am I the bad guy who potentially puts on an event and infects all of my friends and family? Or am I the bad guy that cancels the event and puts another nail in our industries coffin?

    I can't tell the future. If I do host the show, it will be one of the few knife events even held this year. Which is something I have been worried about for years. The shows that go down or the knife events that people stopped doing...it hurts us. When things are ending that means either it was poorly managed or our industry isn't growing or isn't solid enough. I don't want all these makers to come out and then no one else show up. On some days, I believe we will have a good turn out, simply because people do want to go out. They do want to do something and everyone else is cancelling. On this same note, I'm annoyed and feel like I should have it. I mean even if the convention center bans events. I feel like I should just call it an Knife Protest, because everyone seems to be cool with tens of thousands of people gathering up like that. I'm also pretty sure that most of us are going to catch it when going to Wal-Mart or where ever to get our groceries. That doesn't mean I want to hold it and then everyone I know catch it either though. I'd never forgive myself.

    As far as not having it goes. My concerns are the loss of money when it comes to the hotels and flights that they have already booked and probably aren't going to be refunded. While I have no control over that, it is still because of the show cancelling that they would lose that money. Also, there are makers who depend on these shows. If they all cancel, it will be a hit to our industry that will take years to recover from. Not even because of the virus. Just because of it seeming like we don't even exist.

    For me, I'm going to do what I have always done. Just go by the most popular vote. Ask the people who have an interest in the show, what it is that they want. Because there is one thing that I do know. It's easy to say you should do this, when you don't have anything to lose in it. It's different when you do.

    I should have rescheduled until a day after the election. That way the virus would disappear. :p So I am curious to everyone's thoughts on it. Either choice affects people's lives and the industry as a whole.
     
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  6. J. Doyle

    J. Doyle Bladesmith/Knifemaker

    Feb 17, 2008
    This virus is not going away any time soon. Its here for the foreseeable future.

    We're going to have to learn to live with it and deal with it, as we've done with the cold and flu. Never has the world reacted this way to any other virus.

    Shutting down the economy and sheltering in place is a death sentence, in more ways than one. We're only a few short months away from cold/flu season. Are we really supposed to board up the nation again?

    And shame on the VAST majority of media outlets for perpetuating all the doom and gloom .

    Life is going to have to resume to 'normal' or there will be no life to return to.
     
  7. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    Logan, one way to look at it is as the choice between life and death.
    Industry is strictly the result of human endeavour, life is the result of something quite different.
    If it were up to me, I'd put it on ice until the risk passes. I wouldn't want to be the cause of a single death, especially of someone who I know and value, and that's really what's potentially at stake here. Imo.
    But, yeah- you're kind of screwed no matter what you do.
    The pros and cons list has a big asterisk on it though, and I think most people would completely understand if you pulled the plug, (on the event) at this time.
     
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  8. Critter

    Critter Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 23, 2003
    We have every intention on attending both BLADE Show and Arkansas. This decision is based on a review of facts and context.

    The largest percentage of new cases are simply the result of massively more testing. Here in AZ we discovered that Mayo Clinic has been running an antibody sustainment study with hundreds of young folks. We know some of these people, they asked. Every week when they go in and test positive, they are reported as a new case. Hospitals are filling up because there is money to be made, and most importantly, made up, even on cases that would be perfectly safe staying a home.

    The virus is mutating to be far less dangerous that it was. We know numbers of friends who have been diagnosed as having had it with no more adverse effects than a bad cold or flu, a number of therm in their 70s, 80s and 90s, but who did not have comorbidities. The vast majority of folks who have died are over age 75. The three most prevalent comorbidities were hypertension (56%), obesity (42%), and diabetes (34% percent). "Co" means more than one of these being present.

    Age alone does not appear to be a factor unless there are comorbidities, which are inherently more common among older folks. The vast majority of folks who have had serious cases or who died had multiple comorbidities. The Navajos in AZ represent the vast majority of deaths here in our state. Virtually all tribe members have all 3 of those most dangerous comorbidities and they generally live in very close multi-generational quarters with less than modern sanitary facilities. One of our volunteers at BLADE has serious health issues, 2 of those common comorbidities, as well as other issues, and he's staying home, which makes rational sense for him.

    While infection rates have risen, mostly for logical reasons like more testing, death rates have plummeted.

    People have been going to large events and coming home sick forever. SHOT Show Crud, BLADE Show Crud. Given even a modicum of social distancing,mask use, sanitizer use, and "but just to be sure" stupid safety steps, I see no reason not to go.
     
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  9. Bmgillum

    Bmgillum Platinum Member Platinum Member

    668
    Nov 8, 2016
    I am 79, have Type 2 Diabetes, had a Triple Bypass, have type A blood and pretty much bald on top...the only thing I don’t have is asthma and my wife has that...I wouldn’t attend any type of large gathering if it were held across the street and free...

    That said, if it were my show, I would pull the plug...a significant percentage of the makers are sixty or over and the chance that one or more contacting it and dying are just too high...and, someone could carry it back to their family(s)...I just could not live with either scenario...

    just my 2 cents...good luck with whatever you decide to do...
     
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  10. Jon Brand

    Jon Brand Gold Member Gold Member

    May 28, 2007
    I live very close to ground zero in new york. I worked through the worst of the pandemic in a very large deli in one of the biggest super markets in the county. Although arrows and lines are on the ground, it seems more to keep business safe from liability issues rather then really to help people. It is supposed to help, but its almost impossible for customers to follow the guidelines. Even employees like me couldnt follow all the arrows as its just not very easy to stick with when you have to go in a certain direction. Masks help but the distancing guidelines are really ridiculous and don't do much. The truth is Cuomo is trying to bury us. He is ruining business all over the state and has imposed absolutely insane guidlines which are making people sick. Like wearing masks OUTDOORS while excercizing at parks. Its politics unfortunately and about as ugly as ive ever seen.

    Not sure where I am going with this as I find myself ranting. I will say if i was setting up at the show and people were gonna be using chemicals and sanitizing things they touch, I would not want my products getting that on it. What about natural materials and the finishes people put so much work into? I would leave the product alone and let the individuals on both ends decide how to handle it.

    I dont have a freaking clue what would be best for blade. Its a lose lose situation. Id be even more concerned about possible protests. I agree with Logan... the virus and the protests will likely be gone the day after the election. Its a sad state of affairs we find ourselves in.
     
  11. Aidenag

    Aidenag

    291
    Apr 16, 2009
    Come on critter, don't spread false information that downplays what's goin on. That's not cool. If the increase in cases was just 'massively move testing why are hospitals in your area near breaking point? All the locations reporting huge infection numbers are also seeing huge increases in hospital admissions. Its basic cause and effect.. and the death rate while down, is still 10× worse than a seasonal flu. Covid is now the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA for 2020... let that sink in. In 6 months its killed nearly 3x our dead from the Vietnam war.

    Is it the plague? Are we all going to die? No. But this IS the worst pandemic in over a century. If the entire world treated this threat as poorly as we are in the states, the global totals would be insane. Thankfully most of the world isn't turning a virus political though. Pretty much just us, brazil and russia are. Which ironically are the 3 biggest hotspots... which is to say, listen to doctors and scientists, not political talking points.

    Last ill leave it at this. Infection rates indoors in large groups has proven to be high. Look at the concerts, churches, protests, rally etc. Proven instances of one person coming in sick and dozens and dozens getting it. At 1% mortality rate and 13% hospitalization rate, just imagine if it spreads at bladeshow... and as I said months ago in this thread we will be the joke of the nation if that occurs. People mocked me then saying nobody will pay attention to a knife show. But if dozens or hundreds get sick and spread it all over from attending blade it WILL be a top story on national news. And the implications of that would be devastating to the knife world as were made to look like a bunch of uneducated idiots.
     
  12. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    There is no choice, once you are born, death is certain. The only choice you have is how you react to life.

    If someone dies from covid gotten at a show, it's not the promoters fault. They'd have died of covid gotten at the grocery.
     
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  13. Critter

    Critter Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Mar 23, 2003
    Well, apparently you have your facts and I have mine. I trust my sources who are actively involved in this issue, including docs treating patients with COVID-19, epidemiologists and hospital admins. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
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  14. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    are some of you saying that the reaction to this pandemic is politically motivated? That the virus is a fiction whose purpose is to undermine the government, or a certain politician? I'm sincerely confused by the logic, if anyone is making that argument. If no one is and I'm misunderstanding, that's on me

    Jon, when you talk about the guidelines and how ineffective they were in keeping people in check, and also note your city as being an epicentre, I can't help but connect those things. Do you think that part of the reason it was so bad in NY was something other than people not being mindful of the situation?

    it seems pretty solid that a virus can only gain traction if it's spread. The way to keep it from spreading is to starve it of hosts. If you're agreeing with me up to this point, then consider a public event as being a potential feast for this virus, and that by holding one you are potentially serving up humans to it

    maybe I'm just being over cautious and silly. Maybe not. I guess time will tell
     
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  15. Aidenag

    Aidenag

    291
    Apr 16, 2009
    Your assumption is correct, sadly. A LOT of people down here in the states are making it political, or worse, thinking the entire thing is politically motivated and being over-dramatized for political gains(or losses depending on which side of the coin the conspiracy theorist is on). 20 years ago, this type of thinking was fringe, now its going mainstream here. Just look at the states seeing the highest increases right now. The virus is now a Red Vs Blue divide like everything else becomes here. Blade show is actually a prime example of this. Blade in Atlanta is a go.. Blade west cancelled.

    P.S. i know politics is not allowed here, trying to keep this as non political as possible, but its sadly a topic relating to the current knife making/collecting world that has turned political as well so its kinda hard not to have it involved some.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
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  16. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    Pandemic reaction in every community is based upon politics. Boris Johnson's covid contraction, the Swedish solution, the German plan and the Korean success are all based in politics. Humans are political animals. In my area your covid restrictions change by town, county and state. Same thing in China.
     
  17. Jon Brand

    Jon Brand Gold Member Gold Member

    May 28, 2007
    Sorry folks, this has nothing to do with the topic but just responding. I had a family friend pass away and many other peoples relatives who I knew, and I take every precaution when at work and when I come home from work as I fear the virus as much as I fear passing it to my housemates. Its very real. I think it needs to run its course and the lines on the ground simply cant control the whole population of people in and out. I am no wordsmith so its hard to explain but if you saw it in person it might make more sense. There is simply too much going on to keep everyone in check even if the majority is trying. I actually live in the suburbs half an hour north of manhattan but you can see it from here. The former Tappanzee bridge, now known as the mario cuomo bridge just opened up their new bike/jog path and the cops don't let you on with out a mask. No gyms are open yet. People are getting sick, gaining weight, drinking too much etc etc. Its hard to exercise with a mask. I am FOR wearing a mask at work and where ever I need to right now. But its absoultely sickening to see what every single business has to do (or not do) when its more about optics then health.
     
  18. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    I'm feeling for you, Jon. We're all in the same petri dish, ultimately. I suppose that's really the only point I was trying to make
     
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  19. Jon Brand

    Jon Brand Gold Member Gold Member

    May 28, 2007
    Lorien same to you. Were all in this mess together. It sucks so much about blade. Even if its on there will hardly be anyone there im sure.
     
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  20. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or reinforcing my point

    If it's the latter, then I totally agree- 'The only choice you have is how you react to life'. The choices that responsible people make include looking out for the lives of others

    the second statement about fault, I find to be very puzzling. It's not the fault of the road builder that people have car accidents, etc. You could go down that rabbit hole all day long and never get to the bottom of it

    also, finding fault before a thing happens is inherently different than placing blame after a thing happens. I can disagree with your choice to hold an event during a pandemic, but if everything works out I'll be happy for you. If things don't work out, and people I know die because you made that choice- despite all the warnings- then you can bet there is going to be blame after the fact

    if someone chooses to host an indoor event, it's almost guaranteed that some people will get sick- just as Doug pointed out earlier. That's a risk generally associated with attending events and if you're going to be around people it's something that happens, but it doesn't happen to a statistically large group of people most times, (I'm speculating)

    in the case of COVID19, it is statistically probable that a large percentage of people will become infected, over the course of a weekend long, indoor event. The fatality rate is nothing like SARS or MERS, but it's all but guaranteed that public events will help spread this virus, and that some people will die from it

    maybe it's a small percentage that actually die, but my friends are one of a kind and I don't want to lose any more of them than I have to

    I also don't want them to get sick with something that takes them out for a month. Pretty hard to make money these days as it is, and all the harder if you're too sick to work. If your job is already hanging by a thread, try taking sick leave and we'll see if you still have a job when you're ready to work again

    I don't know if you've seen what COVID19 is capable of doing to your lungs, but most knife makers I know definitely don't need a lung infection of any kind. Those who don't wear respirators already have damaged lungs, and a respiratory virus on top of that could be a real, lifelong problem. Those who do wear respirators will find it that much harder to breathe with lungs scarred and damaged by a viral infection

    no one wants to starve to death. Going to the grocery store is a measurable risk. If you don't go there, you don't eat

    @brownshoe, if you'd like to continue this conversation in W&C, I'll see you there
     
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