Blade Steels - Who can REALLY tell the difference?

My biggest things is noticing how well something holds a razor edge through just touching up on the blade (IE not resetting the edge). For example with a D2 tool steel blade, just through stropping and honing I'm able to keep the edge hair shaving sharp almost indefinitely. I've also noticed with use that some steels tend to hold their razor sharp edges longer than others. Like CPM 154-CM is able to do better than anything I've seen.
 
Every knife I have will need sharpening eventually, so for me one of the biggest differences I notice is how easy it is to sharpen and how sharp I can get it. I can definitely notice differences here. I never let my knives get dull, just a little under shaving sharp. I can slice paper with all my knives all the time, I cannot always shave with my knives, and if I cannot shave with it I typically will not carry it and set it aside to be sharpened. So for me my most important criteria is how long a knife can hold that shaving edge, and how sharp and usable its next level of sharpness is because most of my steels (waiting on CTS-204P and hoping it stands out) don't stay shaving sharp esp if cardboard is in the equation for an extremely long time. What I notice with cheap steels (the ones that just say "stainless steel" and nothing else) is they go butter knife dull when S30v when just lose its shaving sharpness, but is definitely still working sharp. Of course all of this is my personal preference in how I maintain my knives, and I am honing my stroping skills, but I can tell the difference between all of my steels even in the region of shaving sharp to just paper cutting sharp.
 
jimh0220 said:
So I see a gazillion (I've counted) posts about type A steel is better than type B, or that knife is crap because of the steel, etc, etc, etc. I have most brands of knives, and probably every steel used, exept the extremely exotic steels that require a 2nd mortgage to have. You know what, I can't tell one steel from another. Sure, there are better knives, brands, sharpness levels, etc, but if you showed me 2 identical knives, one with a Krupps 4116 blade, one with a D2, I would see the same knives, and I would assume after using them both and caring for them the same, I still wouldn't know. Aside from the knifemakers, how many of you would know one steel from another if you weren't told, or is this just another 'mine is better' bragging point for alot of folks who are blowing smoke out their AUS?
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If you can't tell the difference between the steels (The ones you used, whatever they are) than you haven't been using them enough or pushing them enough to tell the difference.

Everyone uses their knives differently as one would expect, but don't think just because YOU can't tell the difference personally that there isn't one, perception can be a powerful thing and most are usually wrong in the end.

There is enough data available from plenty of sources to prove the differences between the steels and that's both machine testing and real world testing.

Better is a relative term.....

The question or statement should start with better at (enter use or task here).

There is really no better, there is different though.
 
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I can definatly tell the difference between steels like AUS8, 154CM, 1095, etc. I have 3 different steels in my daily EDC, and I can say that they all have different characteristics.

Also, I will say that the heat treat makes as much, or more difference, IMHO. I have a Rowen blade that holds an edge like a champ. I have an Ontario RAT3 that refuses to hold as good of an edge, for as long the Rowen blade, even though they are the same steel.

Now, this is only based on my observations and experiences. Yours might vary.
 
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I have a couple of Spyderco Mule teams, one in Elmax and one in Cru-Wear.
With the factory edges the Cru-wear seemed sharper and the edge holding lasted longer.
I resharpened both knives with a 19 Degree secondary bevel and now the Elmax outcuts and outlasts the Cru-wear.
I'm now experimenting with the cru-wear to find the optimal sharpening angle. Once I've found it, only then can I do a proper comparison.
This is on the Mule teams where every other variable has been standardised. If you go into different makes/shapes the variables are to great
to even compare.
 
A good comparison and to bring some reality into the steel discussions would be to look at commercial cutters and saw blades that they use in the mills.

The A11 class steels are used in commercial cutters, that's Steels like CPM 10V.

The saw blades they use in the mills are carbide tipped.

Things are this way for a reason, they cut longer before they need to be swapped out and or sharpened, this is with zero hype, wanting something to be a certain way, urban legends and just general BS......

Knife blades are in general a good comparison, more so with the commercial cutters than saw blades except for the fact they are carbide tipped and some of the steels have certain amounts of carbides in the steel to increase wear resistance.
 
Ankerson said:
If you can't tell the difference between the steels (The ones you used, whatever they are) than you haven't been using them enough or pushing them enough to tell the difference...
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Or one doesn't know how to properly sharpen said steel. Also, IMHO putting identical 40 deg(or even thicker) inclusive angle edge on all knives from all steels using edge pro or other system doesn't count as proper sharpening either. At least from the perspective of comparing/discovering super steel abilities.
 
Another way you can tell the difference between steels is by trying to make a knife from them. Some steels are much easier to work than others. Others will take a better hamon. There's lots of things that make one steel different from another. If all you do is open envelopes, and you rarely use your knives, and don't know how to sharpen them, then sure, buy whatever. If you actually use your knives heavily, then you'll notice some clear differences. Different steels can take different edges and retain them for much longer. Some are easier to sharpen than others. Some are generally tougher than others. Etc. Those differences can be very perceptible.
 
That is true. I knew when Buck made the change from 440c to 420hc back in the day. Couldn't tell you what was going on but everybody would agree we could not get an edge on new Buck 110's. I didn't know what to think of it then.
 
Gator97 said:
Or one doesn't know how to properly sharpen said steel. Also, IMHO putting identical 40 deg(or even thicker) inclusive angle edge on all knives from all steels using edge pro or other system doesn't count as proper sharpening either. At least from the perspective of comparing/discovering super steel abilities.
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How true. :D

I wasn't going to get into all of that adding even more variables into the topic, was trying to keep it basic as I could.
 
jimh0220 said:
I have most brands of knives, and probably every steel used, exept the extremely exotic steels that require a 2nd mortgage to have. You know what, I can't tell one steel from another.
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I guess you've acumulated and use a lot of different knives - and aren't using a single one often enough and for longer time spans to see differences.

I've seen differences in Benchmades 154cm and s30v on the 707 i have on me basically every day (the s30v keeps is razor edge for a longer time) and I have also noticed differences in edge holding among high carbon steels with different hardnesses and all of them are different than steels like cpm-m4 or m390. But the more similar they are, the less likely it gets that I'm able to notice a difference.
 
I've noticed a difference between 1095 and S30V, but even then the difference is fairly negligible and doesn't have any practical implications for my use purposes. I just don't need a blade to cut through tons, and tons of material and remain sharp enough. My cutting tasks are short and finished quickly, so wear resistance is not really a factor. Finish a job, touch the edge up if needed. The only time I could see needing a "super steel" is if you're cutting through lots of material that will dull a steel like 1095 quickly, and require you to field sharpen... In that scenario you'll spend more time sharpening than working.

I guess it's a bit like comparing the suspension of the family sedan to that of a Land Rover. You're really not gonna know the difference until you go off road.
 
I would think the average person can't tell the difference. I have spoke to many people who use knives daily, who aren't collectors or members of a knife forum, who don't even know what blade steel they are using...
 
Going from EDCing a mini grip with cm154 to one with M390 the difference was quite obvious.
 
jimh0220 said:
... Aside from the knifemakers, how many of you would know one steel from another if you weren't told, ...
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By using the knife. The differences become quite obvious when you actually use the knives. By "use the knives" I mean really use them, for a long period of time. While I like (and have) both steels that you mention, 4116 and D2, the difference in edge holding is not subtle.
 
Ankerson said:
Start pushing the steels (Using them) and the differences will be much more obvious.
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+2 Not everyday do I get to push my knives like I like to. But when I do. I can definitely tell the difference between S30V and 14C28N
( for example ). In sharpening, I can generally feel a difference. Sometimes I go out and push a knife steel purposely to see how it does. I truly wish I could get a job where I cut stuff all day :D.
 
I can tell the difference between most steels and so can anyone else. Compare 1080 to ATS34 and you'll know what variances exist, and compare 1080 from two makers and you'll know what variances exist. I don't believe any steel is good or bad as I've had 3V chip out at the first sign of resistance and 440 take a beating with no sign of wear. Heat-treatment matters, edge geometry matters, and alloy matters - isolate one variable (alloy) and compare it to another and you will get the result you're looking for but not a result that actually tells anyone which alloy is better.
 
Gator97 said:
Or one doesn't know how to properly sharpen said steel. Also, IMHO putting identical 40 deg(or even thicker) inclusive angle edge on all knives from all steels using edge pro or other system doesn't count as proper sharpening either. At least from the perspective of comparing/discovering super steel abilities.
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Do you mean, taking " super " steels to lower angles taking advantage of composition ect? Seems like I read one of your articles about that.
 
Man I can't even tell the difference between a Toyota and a Lexus.:p That is untill I go beyond just pedestrian driving from point A-B. then the difference becomes so obvious. Just like blade steels.
 
Different steels are better for different purposes: Try taking a 1095 knife diving vs. something like H1... I'm guessing you don't dive with your knives though. (Corrosion resistance is only one characteristic that varies in steel composotion; may previous posts have listed various others). Or as others have stated, use them for anything that will show you a difference. I don't know how you can use them for anything other than show and not be able to tell a difference though. But hey, if you can't tell a difference, then buy the least expensive steel you can and leave the good stuff for those of us who can tell a difference.
 
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