BladeForums BEST BOWIE 2010 - Here are your finalists - let the voting begin!

[nikoknife48]

Although all these blades are magnificent I voted for Mr. Fisk. I like the streamlined blade design and his choice of ivory. It also looks like it would be quick in hand and that tip would inflict a nasty back cut. The sheath is equally unique and compliments the entire package.

 

[timcsaw]

uh oh...

Indeed!

OR...

it could be said that an explicit, definitive, widely accepted definition of a "bowie" knife does not exist.

Good questions. I'll let the advocates of a bright line separation of fighter from bowie provide the answer. I will say that I think every knife in this final group with the exception of the Fisk could legitimately be described as a fighter.

But as to what characteristics are unique to a fighter and unique to a bowie such as to generally define knives that clearly must occupy one category and clearly must not occupy the other - well - I'm eager to hear.

And keep in mind the reason the bowie knife achieved a level of international fame and infamy before there was such a thing as mass media and the internet: it was through its use - real or imagined - as fighting knife.

Roger

Thanks Roger. It sounds like this is a rather contentious point so I'll do a little research on my own, or start a different thread on the subject. I don't want to see this great thread side-tracked or muddied up with a disagreement discussion of what "is" and what "is not" this or that type of blade.

I'm going to edit my original post above because I'd like to see this thread's focus stay on these great knives and their makers.

 

[RogerP]

Thanks Roger. It sounds like this is a rather contentious point so I'll do a little research on my own, or start a different thread on the subject. I don't want to see this great thread side-tracked or muddied up with a disagreement discussion of what "is" and what "is not" this or that type of blade.

I'm going to edit my original post above because I'd like to see this thread's focus stay on these great knives and their makers.

Tim - it is certainly a point worthy of discussion. It has been hashed out a few times on the forums. I'm sending you a PM.

Roger

 

[Mike Krall]

I don't know what's usual at the end of the choosing time. Would it be possible to collect up the pictures of the 5 knives in the final as well as the "next-5-finishers" from the nominations and re-post them?

Mike

 

[RogerP]

I don't know what's usual at the end of the choosing time. Would it be possible to collect up the pictures of the 5 knives in the final as well as the "next-5-finishers" from the nominations and re-post them?

Mike

I don't mind doing that at all Mike - I just want to be sure people can see the images I post. So if anyone still can't see them, holler at me.

Roger

 

[ptgdvc]

...the reason the bowie knife achieved a level of international fame and infamy... was through its use - real or imagined - as fighting knife.
Roger

In a fight, a longer blade length is an advantage, pure and simple. It is exactly analogous to a boxer with a longer reach. Musashi won his most famous duel by using a wooden oar an inch or two longer than his opponent's Katana.

In fights, Length/Size matters.

10" is a purely arbitrary number that just happens to be practically useful to carry and esthetically pleasing.

P

 

[RogerP]

In a fight, a longer blade length is an advantage, pure and simple. It is exactly analogous to a boxer with a longer reach. Musashi won his most famous duel by using a wooden oar an inch or two longer than his opponent's Katana.

In fights, Length/Size matters.

10" is a purely arbitrary number that just happens to be practically useful to carry and esthetically pleasing.

P

Agreed with all of the above. Not sure it takes us to a distinguishing point between bowie and fighter, though. Both genres embrace sizes above and below the 10" mark.

Roger

 

[Mike Turner]

or simply eliminating "Bowie" from the name of the contest.

Or just make it The Best Bowie/Fighter contest

 

[ptgdvc]

Agreed with all of the above. Not sure it takes us to a distinguishing point between bowie and fighter, though. Both genres embrace sizes above and below the 10" mark.

Roger

A Bowie needs to do everything a knife can do, chop (10+" helps here), fight, slice, skin, whittle toys, you name it. It was the first American multi tool. The Honda Odyssey of knives. Jack of all trades, master of none.

A Fighter needs to be light and fast with a stabbing point. A sharpened clip is a plus. It also needs to be smaller to ease concealment. It has a much more specialized job and necessarily sacrifices some of its utility. The BMW M3 of knives. Great car, but is hard to get 4 kids in the back.

 

[BowieBooster]

I predict this will go nowhere. The Sfreedo example simply doesn't pass the "Quack Test." I counted four quacks and a moo. Rather than make the folks pointing out the obvious prove a negative (which I think has been adequately done, regardless), why not let the Xerxes crowd explain how that knife is a Bowie? That'd sure be interesting, anyway. You may also wanna correct Rodrigo, who named his beautiful knife the "Moghul Fighter." Can't say I've ever heard of a Moghul stepping foot in the Americas, much less conquering them, as they did much of the northern Indian subcontinent. Or perhaps Bowie hopped on a nuclear powered Delorian traveling in reverse and lent his knife design to the Moghuls 300 years before the Sandbar Fight?

On a more serious note (and not that it even applies), I'm shocked nobody's typed the words "Searles" or "Arkansas Toothpick" yet.

 

[ptgdvc]

I predict this will go nowhere. The Sfreedo example simply doesn't pass the "Quack Test." I counted four quacks and a moo. Rather than make the folks pointing out the obvious prove a negative (which I think has been adequately done, regardless), why not let the Xerxes crowd explain how that knife is a Bowie? That'd sure be interesting, anyway.

I'm shocked nobody's typed the words "Searles" or "Arkansas Toothpick" yet.

Honest to G*d, this maybe my favorite post of all time on BladeForums.

The Xerxes crowd! I love it. lol!

In the interest of full and fair disclosure, I did end up voting for the Sfreddo.

 

[nikoknife48]

I recommend someone starting a new thread in general knife discussion on what their definition of a bowie is. Let the voting continue.

 

[Kevin Jones]

If anyone has enough knife savvy and intelligence to present a universally accepted definition of Bowie and Fighter, then please by all means get right to work on identifying the term custom knife.

But seriously, I have been doing research this morning in going through my Bowie books to try to satisfy myself with some solid characteristics that clearly identify a Bowie Knife. Going in, I thought I had a pretty good idea as to what I considered a bowie. However after seeing page after page of all sorts of knives which the "expert/authors" have represented as bowies, I'm becoming more of the mind that ALL knives with 6+" blades are Bowie Knives. Some are just more suited for fighting, some more suited for camp chores, some more concealable and design for protection and so on and on.
Even symmetric double-edge bladed knives which I would identify as "daggers" are represented as "spearpoint bowies".
So my point is that if the folks who "wrote the books on Bowies" can't nail down a universally accepted definition, then not much chance we will.

Here's an old quote I found in some book that's kind of silly, however drives home that early bowies were universally used for many tasks.

"a Bowie had to be sharp enough to use as a razor, heavy enough to use as a hatchet, long enough to use as a sword and broad enough to use as a paddle"

 

[ptgdvc]

If anyone has enough knife savvy and intelligence to present a universally accepted definition of Bowie and Fighter, then please by all means get right to work on identifying the term custom knife.

As soon as I am finished with World Peace, I'll get right on it.

I think the safest course is to call a knife, whatever its maker called it.

If Jerry Fisk says his a Bowie, or Nick Wheeler says his is a Fighter, that settles it for me.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Or just make it The Best Bowie/Fighter contest

There ya go :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[sheathmaker]

I think the safest course is to call a knife, whatever its maker called it.

If Jerry Fisk says his a Bowie, or Nick Wheeler says his is a Fighter, that settles it for me.

That makes sense for me too.

I also checked out the name "Moghul" and based on that, Fighter applies and for me Bowie does not. Further, the name Moghul implies Mid East roots so in the context of this "contest" it could be more than a little geographically mislocated.

However, it all becomes moot in just few more minutes.

Paul

 

[RogerP]

I predict this will go nowhere. The Sfreedo example simply doesn't pass the "Quack Test." I counted four quacks and a moo. Rather than make the folks pointing out the obvious prove a negative (which I think has been adequately done, regardless), why not let the Xerxes crowd explain how that knife is a Bowie? That'd sure be interesting, anyway. You may also wanna correct Rodrigo, who named his beautiful knife the "Moghul Fighter." Can't say I've ever heard of a Moghul stepping foot in the Americas, much less conquering them, as they did much of the northern Indian subcontinent. Or perhaps Bowie hopped on a nuclear powered Delorian traveling in reverse and lent his knife design to the Moghuls 300 years before the Sandbar Fight?

On a more serious note (and not that it even applies), I'm shocked nobody's typed the words "Searles" or "Arkansas Toothpick" yet.

Read the criteria. The thread has been called "Best Bowie" for the last 4 years. For the last 4 years, any large fixed blade has been admitted - bowie, fighter, camp knife etc. The title does seem - apparently - to cause much offence to some, but the game hasn't changed. It would seem to me if people had a beef with the Sfreddo piece, the time to mention it would have been in the submission stage. This end-game piling on of "that unworthy Persian just don't belong!" seems misplaced and decidedly ill-timed.

And no-one has asked anyone to prove a negative. What has been asked of those who want only "pure" bowies included, and all "fighters" excluded is to go ahead and give us a working definition of those terms by which we can measure prospective sntries. Still waiting....

Or just make it The Best Bowie/Fighter contest

You know Mike - you're never going to last here if you keep making sense.



Roger

 

[RogerP]

My sincere congratulations to Bruce Bump and the Justice Bowie – winner of the 2010 BladeForums Best Bowie.

This is a unique accomplishment in that Bruce is not only our first two-time winner, but out first multiple winner – well done sir!

Congrats as well to Murray, owner and photographer of this fine piece.

Any my thanks again to all participants in what has been, in my view, an exceptional assembly of fine knives for the viewing pleasure of all.

The final order of the 5 finalists:

1. Bruce Bump Justice Bowie

2. Rodrigo Sfreddo Moghul Fighter

3. Nick Wheeler W2 Fighter

[/QUOTE]


4. Jerry Fisk Artifact South West Bowie NLT

5. Dave Lisch Flying Dragon Bowie

Top 5 from the remainder of the nominees:


1. Burt Foster

2. Don Hanson III

3. Larry Fuegen

4. Larry Fuegen

5. Nick Wheeler

Roger

 

[NickWheeler]

I just wanted to say thanks for the inclusion and support, it's very nice to see!!!

Also, since clearly the votes that Bruce is beating me with, went to the Sfreddo, I'd like to motion that it get tossed out and all of its votes go directly to me. :thumbup:



To be serious, I would have (and think I did) called my knife a fighter... for whatever that's worth. I agree with Roger, that if any of the knives that got put into this thread were thought of as unworthy for THIS THREAD... it seems that would have come up in the initial submissions. No???

Thanks again for the inclusion... it really was nice to see! It's also kind of neat since my knife is a relatively simple one compared to the other, over the top fancy show pieces.

Oops, I was writing this while Roger was posting the final results! Thanks again and congratulations to Bruce Bump!!!!!

 

[BowieBooster]

Read the criteria. The thread has been called "Best Bowie" for the last 4 years. For the last 4 years, any large fixed blade has been admitted - bowie, fighter, camp knife etc. The title does seem - apparently - to cause much offence to some, but the game hasn't changed. It would seem to me if people had a beef with the Sfreddo piece, the time to mention it would have been in the submission stage. This end-game piling on of "that unworthy Persian just don't belong!" seems misplaced and decidedly ill-timed.

And no-one has asked anyone to prove a negative. What has been asked of those who want only "pure" bowies included, and all "fighters" excluded is to go ahead and give us a working definition of those terms by which we can measure prospective sntries. Still waiting....

Roger

Like I said, I wasn't gonna be the first one to draw fire ... nice survival technique.

Why not:

"Any fixed blade custom knife reflecting reasonable design and blade influence from any 19th Century knife/knives then generally accepted or represented as "Bowie" knives, including, e.g., hand forged Texarkana period knives, Sheffield Bowies, California/Frisco knives and Searles Bowies. Designs must primarilly reflect the infuence of 19th Century Texarkana, California or Sheffield knives, and not those of other regions or time periods prior to the 19the Century. This would by definition exclude, e.g., quillion/bullock/kidney/Scots daggers, dirks or other such knives, Scandinavian knives, middle-Eastern knives, Scots dirks, or other traditional knives of European, Asian, Middle-Eastern or African cultures, but would include fighter designs reasonably reflecting "Bowie" (as defined above) influence.

Blades may include clip points, "butcher" type or spear point blades or variations thereof, including a sharped clip or top swedge, but may not include dagger blades/grinds."

At least that's a starting point to let the arguing begin from. Under what's been accpeted, then, a Scots dirk is a "Bowie" and eligible for the voting.